Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Hornet loads for the 223

I'm selling off a lot of my guns and the hornet will be leaving. I figure I shoot the 223 more and it can be loaded down if needed. I shoot the hornet in some areas under 200 yards where noise is a concern.

What I'm looking for is a load that will basically duplicate the hornet. A 40gr bullet no faster than 3000fps. I need one with as small powder charge as possible to decrease sound.

Does anyone have a good lower velocity, lower noise load for the 223 that will make me miss my hornet less?

Might try Hodgdon and ask them if they have any reduced loads with Trail Boss.

Look up Blue Dot loads by Seafire lots of reduced load data for .223 and they work too I came up with some very accurate loads using Blue Dot. Only thing I noticed is that the Blue dot tends to burn very dirty but that is normal for reduced loads that I have tried through the years.

Piece of cake ... you take AR2205 (Hodgdon's H4227) and use the start load.
http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handloaders-guide/rifle.asp

It can stand a reduction as well if it's still too fast.
Cheers...
Con

James Calhoon first came up with the solution; I and others have written to confirm it. In the .223, you can duplicate Hornet/Bee loads with a 40 or 45-gr bullet and 13.0 BlueDot. I use either the mild Rem 6� or CCI 500 primer and my usual light touch of the Lee Factory Crimp Die.

It will give you very good accuracy at 2800 fps, light muzzle report and next to no fouling.

For inquiring minds: ( PS, I also burn quite a bit of SR 4759 to do the same thing... for what it is worth..)


Blue Dot Range Report: 223 Caliber ( Full )

Bullet Weights Tested:
1. 35 grain Hornady V Max
2. 40 grain Hornady Vmax
3. 45 grain Sierra SP
4. 50 grain Sierra SMP
5. 52 grain Sierra Boat Tail Match
6. 55 grain Winchester FMJ

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 Mk 2, VT 26 inch Barrel, Stainless Steel First yr Model

Case: Lake City Surplus, previously fired

Primer: Remington 6 ½

Powder: Blue Dot

Charge Weight Tested: 4 grains to 14 grains.


Weather: Sunny, NO clouds, 80 degrees, NO wind,

Altitude: 2000 ft

Humidity: Very Low


Field Results:


35 grain Hornady V Max:

4 grs: 1284 fps
5 grs: 1488 fps
6 grs: 1862 fps
7 grs: 2163 fps
8 grs: 2392 fps

9 grs: 2636 fps
10 grs: 2722 fps
11 grs: 3076 fps
12 grs: 3205 fps
13 grs: NO Reading
14 grs: 3518 fps



Hornady 40 grain Vmax:

4 grs: 1161 fps
5 grs: 1538 fps
6 grs: 1798 fps
7 grs: 2148 fps

8 grs: 2243 fps
9 grs: 2539 fps
10 grs: 2771 fps
11 grs: 2956 fps

12 grs: 3013 fps
13 grs: 3218 fps
14 grs: 3375 fps


Sierra 45 grain SP

4 grs: 1239 fps
5 grs: 1447 fps
6 grs: 1688 fps
7 grs: 1880 fps

8 grs: 2118 fps
9 grs: 2363 fps
10 grs: 2553 fps
11 grs: 2811 fps

12 grs: 2875 fps
13 grs: 3008 fps
14 grs: 3164 fps


Sierra 50 grains SMP

4 grs: 1064 fps
5 grs: 1345 fps
6 grs: 1624 fps
7 grs: 1788 fps

8 grs: 2033 fps
9 grs: 2257 fps
10 grs: 2466 fps
11 grs: 2655 fps
12 grs: 2779 fps

13 grs: 2882 fps
14 grs: 3038 fps


Sierra 52 grain Boattail Hollow Point Match

4 grs: 1061 fps
5grs: 1460 fps
6 grs: 1632 fps
7 grs: 1916 fps

8 grs: 2142 fps
9 grs: 2225 fps
10 gr: NO Reading
11 grs: 2673 fps

12 grs: 2782 fps
13 grs: 2879 fps
14 grs: 3012 fps


Winchester 55 grain FMJ

4 grs: 896 fps
5 grs: 1264 fps
6 grs: 1568 fps
7 grs: 1825 fps
8 grs: 1994 fps

9 grs: 2201 fps
10 grs: 2328 fps
11 grs: 2453 fps

12 grs: 2677 fps
13 grs: 2821 fps




Notes:

1. IN the evaluation of the 223, I came further to the conclusion of the versatility of the 223 in the use of training new shooters, and for a very versatile varmint caliber.
2. Essentially the 223 can be loaded to the specs of a 22 Long rifle, a 218 Bee, a 221 Fireball, a 222 Remington, a 22 Hornet, and a 22 Win Mag., while allowing the shooter to be able to pick the type of bullet that he prefers.
3. Bullets were limited to use of 35 grains to 55 grains. Heavier bullets will not serve any purpose unless a 223 is to be used for deer hunting. I do not believe that their would be a significant difference in the use of a 55 grain bullet vs a 60 grain bullet.
4. The recoil on the lighter loads using 4 to 6 grains of powder had minimal recoil if any at all. These would be ideal for young shooters being trained.
5. Noise level on the lighter loads ( 4 to 6 grains) were on par with a rim fire. An increase in noise level was very noticeable above 7 grains, but still very acceptable. ( No sounding like a rim fire any more)

Noted Observations:

1. It was noted but not considered part of the testing, with a tree used as a back stop for some of the testing, that all bullets ( 45 to 55 grains)penetrated thru the tree at a distance of 20 yds.
2. The diameter of the tree was measured at 5 inches.
3. The 40 grain Vmax loads failed to penetrate the tree at loads above 10 grs, above 2771 fps. However at 10 grains and less, the bullets penetrated thru the tree and did a large amount of damage ( like turning the wood into tooth picks) on the exit side of the tree. The penetration stopped at the 5 grain load.


Some of the Author’s Conclusions:

1. I learned some significant items beyond the versatility of the 223 with the bullets tested, but focusing on its use in the field, got some ideas.
2. A light rifle such as a Winchester Featherweight or Rugers Compact model with a 16.5 inch barrel or the Ultra Light with a 20 inch barrel would make a good combo with the use of Blue Dot.
3. Since the powder is burned cleanly in the first 10 to 12 inches of barrel, the shorter barrels are not handicappiing velocity in the lighter shorter rifles.
4. The penetration of the 40 grain Vmax into the tree did make me ponder the use of those plastic tip varmint rounds as potential loads for small deer for youth shooters. Just like my observations in the larger calibers, the plastic tipped bullet seem to do a lot more damage, at velocities under 2700 fps. The Vmax surprised me. This is a decision any shooter will have to test on his own and make their own decisions. I am just passing on that I saw potential merit in the application.
5. Although one has to weigh out the potential of Plastic Tipped Varmint bullets on bigger game like deer and antelope, some of these loads in real life use, utilizing Barnes’s X bullets in 22 caliber I can recommend. They make a 45 grain, 50 grain and 53 grain bullet. The way I saw much better penetration and more damage in wood, at the lower range velocities, 2200 to 2700 fps, this would make a good deer load in many parts of the USA, and recoil is minimal.


I did not test any bigger bullets as I feel that those tested would be represent the best potential with the powder. 60, 63, 64, 65 grain bullets and then the larger match bullets did not give what I considered useful velocity when I have shot them before with Blue Dot, in respect to their field design uses.

Updated Feb 2008

cheers
seafire



Posted 08 February 2008 12:10 PM 08 February 2008 23:10 Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by 221Fireball:
Seafire2.

How much Blue Dot are you using with the 30 Berger in the 223?


Here is the following info on that range report:
this should help you out.. remember to charge a case and then seat the bullet before going onto the next cartridge, that will eliminate the chance of an accidental double charge.. blue dot is bulky tho.. near max charges will not be a problem...

223 Range Report

Powder: Blue Dot

Bullet: Berger 30 grain HP, Varmint

Rifle Used: Ruger 77 VT

Barrel Length: 26 inches

Primer Used: Winchester Small Rifle

Bullet O.A.L. : 15.55 mms

Cartridge O.A.L. : 57.93 mms


10 grs: 2844 fps

11 grs: 3082 fps

12 grs: 3210 fps

13 grs: 3407 fps

14 grs: 3712 fps

15 grs: 3797 fps

15.5 grs: 3814 fps

16 grs: 3873 fps

16.5 grs: 3957 fps.

Accuracy Potential:
Load of 15 grains of Blue Dot, 30 gr Berger, WSR primer:
5 shot group size@ 100 yds: 0.4260 –0.224 bullet diameter = 0.202 group size
Scope: 6.5 x 20 Simmons.. setting at 10 Power.

Personally my max load is 15 grains.. the extra 150 fps between that and 16.5 grains is not much gained..

Again, these are for academic reference only, anyone using these do so at their own risk, as I can not be responsible for other peoples loading techniques.. these proved to be accurate in my firearms�

seafire
feb 2008

Thanks!
This is exactly the info I was looking for.

Boy, I just KNEW Seafire would hit this one.

But yeah, Blue Dot is a good option. I run it under light bullets in not just my 223 (where it's a really hot, accurate Hornet equivalent) but 22BR and Fireball. Like having another invisible rifle.

Bluedot works very well in 204 Ruger as well. Again thanks to Seafire for his help on that.

Just in case, since it was mentioned...



204 and Blue Dot


204 Ruger and Blue Dot

Rifle used: Ruger 77 Mk 2

Barrel: 22 inches

Primer used: Winchester Small Pistol

Bullets used: Hornady 32 and 40 grain V Maxes.


32 grain Vmax:

5grs: 1588 fps
6grs: 1849 fps
7grs: 2012 fps
8grs: 2300 fps
9grs: 2472 fps

10grs: 2709 fps
11grs: 2890 fps
12grs: 3012 fps
13grs: 3212 fps
14grs: 3372 fps


40 grain Vmax

6grs: 1734 fps
7grs: 1966 fps
8grs: 2197 fps
9grs: 2321 fps

10grs: 2546 fps
11grs: 2709 fps
12grs: 2874 fps
13grs: 2892 fps
14 grs: 3140 fps

Use at your own risk, as I can't be responsible for that ONE guy who tries this data and then doesn't know what he is doing and hurts himself, so this is for academic knowledge only...

My old Dupont data lists 17.5 grs. of SR 4759 for 3040 fps. and the same charge with IMR 4227 for 3085 fps. This with the 45 gr. Sierra spitzer and a COL of 2.19 inches. This is pressure tested at 51,000 and 51,400 cup.
Since both of these powders are just capable of reaching the 3000 fps you desire, I wouldn't try to do that with anything faster. E

I've been using Seafire's data and pushing 35 grain VMaxs, 35 grain Varmint Grenades and 35 grain Nosler BT lead free bullets with 12 grains of Blue Dot. The Varmint Grenades produce the least vaporization of small varmints. The VMaxs are the best. I get 3200-3300 out of a 700 with a 26 inch barrel and right on an inch at 113 yards. Haven't whacked any varmints with the Noslers yet, they're brand new, but they completely come undone in a pint water bottle, nothing but crumb size pieces of jacket left. Chipmunks can be reduced to dime size pieces with the VMaxs. IMO 8 grains Blue Dot is a little light but very quiet. 12 grains is getting a little loud.

at 12 grains Blue Dot, anything a couple of feet behind the chipmunk or red squirrel is not only safe, but unless you miss, it won't likely even be touched. I've shot quite a few in lumber piles and seen where a vertical board behind the varmint was unmarked by anything but splatter.

even tho I have not worked up a data sheet with 4759 like I have with Blue Dot, I am in the middle of load up 200 rounds of 17 grains of 4759 and 50 gr SPSX's, to go after some sage rats in the near future...

these are earmarked for a Rem VSS....

Loads like this are more than adequate for 250 yd varmints.. and are REAL easy on the barrels throat, even when one gets a little overzealous on the trigger in a target rich environment..