Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting LONG RANGE???

SNIPER,
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<br>Obliged for the particulars..........
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<br>DC,
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<br>I thought 2K would be pushing the limits of staying supersonic,with most every concoction I could fathom.
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<br>What sorta accuracy expectations might you have with that rifle,at 2K,given favorable atmospheric conditions?...................

Daryll, deer population characteristics can be very diverse, even within small areas.
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<br>All this talk about LRH has gotten me thinking what my Super Match could do. I use a Mil dot scope and if I zero it at 600 yds, I can shoot from 100 to 900 yds without adjusting the scope using 168gr HPBT's. I have always used mil dot range estimating, but that does get difficult as one approaches 1000 yds, especially on game animals. Guess a 308 at that range is more of a man killer. Then again a good shot with match kings might be enough out to... well, I dont know.
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<br>I think I will stick to punching targets at those ranges, but the techniques are the same. Except, in my case, I am going to have to keep away from the expensive equipment. Also, I think I will keep the computers at home.
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Big Stick
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<br>The accuracy is good enough to kill elk at a bit further then 2000 yards.
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<br>At one mile (1760 yards) during a practice session last year & with VERY little wind, I was able to put 5 rounds in the area diameter of a basketball. Had about 30 witnesses that day.
<br>The rifle has shot 10 shots inside of 7.750" at 1022 yards at Williamsport.
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<br>We have hunting friends at Williamsport who are reaching out a bit further on game with the SAME chambering as I have.
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<br>We normally like to keep the shots inside of 1500 yards but, we know the rifle is capable of much further.
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<br>Darryl Cassel

Well lookie here, Rick we have just acquired a new board for you, LONG RANGE. while I for one will never condone shooting at animals at such ranges it's easy to see some people have an interest in long range shooting and the investment in equipment to do it. Bet Rick will create a board for you right here. We don't know where your board was but seems like it moved over here, glad to have you, welcome aboard. Sounds like there is much knowledge amoung you for your sport and everyone is willing to share it, good for you. When it comes down to it, I think most will drop out because of the time and expense involved but I also believe you are creating many hunters who will be trying shots almost impossible for them to make a good clean humane kill. These hunters will with their real everyday department store hunting rifles be trying any shot presented because, like you say, they are doing it why shouldn't I, it's legal.
<br>Rick what you say, you build these guys a fireplace and let them build their fire under their topic for all who are interested.

Need One
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<br>That's exactly why we are trying to educate those to the sport so they DON"T try it without the proper equipment and "lots" of practice.
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<br>I agree, the hunter should NOT grab his sporter deer rifle and try this. The factory Sendaros, larados and such are the MINIMUM to use for this type shooting unless the person is WELL trained.
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<br>Like I mentioned before, just because a person can walk into his gun shop and buy a longrange rifle with a LR scope on does NOT make him a LR hunter. This person needs to have lots of practice and understand ballistics and what that rifle is capable of. He must know what the change of impact is when he turns his scope turrets to make a longer shot. He must know what the impact change is at every 100 yards of distance he plans to shoot. Most hunters know nothing about this. He must be a good reloader and use the highest BC bullet available for his caliber. He also must practice year round to perfect that skill.
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<br>This is the reason we are here, just to answer questions from those who want to know how it's done. A few like yourself are not interested but, there are many here, at least the majority, who are very interested from the way it sounds.
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<br>I get emails all the time asking questions. Why not answer them on a fine forum such as this and others also???? The sport has been very POPULAR for years and is getting more so now. Those of us who have been doing this for years can certainly contribute valuable information to the person wanting to get into it.
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<br>To each his own.
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<br>Darryl Cassel
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<br>As an add on, One of the longrange rifles I happen to have is one of the MOST powerfull there is. I am able to make extreme longrange shots with it and have. The normal longrange rifle will NEVER be able to accomplish what my large rifle has and should never be attemted unless that person has equal power and knows how to use it. A Sendaro or Larado such as a 300 Win mag or 300 Ultra mag with good reloaded ammo and high BC bullets of heavy weight are certainly good enough for 1000 yard killing on game such as deer and elk IF THE PERSON PRACTICES A LOT.
<br>There are no monitary limits a person can put on a sport if he REALLY enjoys it.
<br>He will find a way to purchase what is needed sooner or later.
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In regards to deer populationa in PA. I was raised there and we hunted the North central area around the Renova area. Even then the deer herds were shrinking in all the hardwood areas. Where I lived, in SW PA, you hardly ever seen a deer. Now in SW Pa, they are so thick that it isn't day goes by you do not see 5 or 6 hit by autos in a 5 mile stretch where my folks and brother live. There is a lot of reclaimed strip mines in the area that provide perfect habitat. They are breeding like rabbits. It's not uncommon to see triplet fawns. Twins are the norm. The only thing there is more of is turkeys.
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<br>I agree with N.O. that a forum needs added for LR shooting discipline. I don't agree with hunting that way and surely can't stop it, so education is the next best thing.
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<br>I ran off at the mouth the other day, and I apologize. Sometimes I impress myself a lot more than I do otherfolks

PBLR, Thanks for the information. I find your equipment and ability at hitting targets both paper and animate, interesting. What effect does humidity, elevation, and the barometer play on your shooting and how do you compensate for it? Surely, at 1000 yds, air density plays a substantial part on bullet flight.

Saddlesore
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<br>Thank you for the kind reply especially concerning the deer populations.
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<br>Being so close in local as to where you lived at one time (Renova) as to where I'm at (up Rt 120 26 miles) you saw the change back several years ago. It is MUCH worse now in the Centre , Cameron and elk counties. Even southern Potter is becoming terrible.
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<br>I have friends in the Midland area and they are saying the same as you are about the overpopulation there.
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<br>I realize there are areas of PA that need thinned out but the Norther tier counties are not the ones to try it. This is where I feel Gary Alt and the game commission are making a huge mistake.
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<br>They need to STOP doe hunting there (in the counties I mentioned) for about two years and have a horn point restriction. This will bring the bucks back to a resonable size again. I remember the 60s and deer were everywhere in those counties.
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<br>I wish you had the damn elk down your way too. I had 8 bulls in the yard not long ago. They come it and tear down my electric fence and start working on my fruit trees. Lucky I have a big fence around the garden. The Damn things even come up on my porch looking for food. Sling shots and pellet guns run them off for a while but, not long. We just keep looking for them in the yard and run them out. We sort of learn to live with it but, they are a real pain. They should have killed a lot more of them then they did this past season. An elk herd of over 750 and they kill less then 50??? Talk about accidents waiting to happen (and have) on rt 555 and 120.
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<br>As for the buck situation, I wont kill a spike or forkhorn just to say I killed a deer. When I kill one, I want a nice one or he will live another year or two, and get bigger.
<br>I don't have to kill anything to be a happy LR OR shortrange hunter.
<br>You would not believe the bucks we have left go over the years while longrange hunting.
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<br>Nice talking with you.
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<br>Darryl Cassel

The only thing I have to add, is that a dummy that lobs a shot at long range that is not prepared, is still a dummy at 200yds..,It does not make him more ethical. The range has nothing to do with his ability to make a clean shot. In other words if he is likely to wound an animal at 600yds, you can almost bet he can make a crippled animal at 200yds. So keeping his shots inside of "ethical range" does not do any good, because he isnt prepared to do either. To say that a sane person can read this, and expect to make a 1000yd shot is ridiculous, as most rifleman know their limits. If they don't, they don't have any business shooting at any range....

Rolly,
<br>There really isn't any one partucular thing that would throw your bullet path off substancially as far as conditions( considering your hunting the same general area) Now from PA to say Colorado, Now you have major changes. Usually it consists of a change of several conditions to really bugger things up. But what we do is WATCH the weather conditions and LOG avg. from year to year. This will establish a base or starting point for your particular area. Check your different hunting locations on your topo maps for elev. ( We have spots that range from 700ft to almost 2000ft and we have different click charts for each spot. If you are ever in doubt about things as far as cond. changing your impact point FIRE A SPOTTER ROUND and then make adj. I hope this helps!

Rolly,
<br>There really isn't any one partucular thing that would throw your bullet path off substancially as far as conditions( considering your hunting the same general area) Now from PA to say Colorado, Now you have major changes. Usually it consists of a change of several conditions to really bugger things up. But what we do is WATCH the weather conditions and LOG avg. from year to year. This will establish a base or starting point for your particular area. Check your different hunting locations on your topo maps for elev. ( We have spots that range from 700ft to almost 2000ft and we have different click charts for each spot. If you are ever in doubt about things as far as cond. changing your impact point FIRE A SPOTTER ROUND and then make adj. I hope this helps!

Darryl, When I was in my early teens , we had one of the $1, 99 year leases on a hunting camp in from Medix Run. When Curtis Wright took it over for testing, we lost it. The area was abandoned I guess, as you can now get back into it, and my brother has found the old foundation.
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<br>Here in CO , they tried the point restriction on deer an it did not work, the same in a few other western states. The problem is that it puts pressure on the bigger bucks when the hunting season is in rut or sometimes even pre rut and breeding is affected. What has finally worked is going to a draw only hunt and limiting the buck tags, allowing more to mature before they are killed off. After about 15 years of poor deer hunting, we are just starting to see better and more bucks since this was instituted two years ago.
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<br>As for the elk, many people tried to convince the RMEF not to reintroduce elk into such areas as they have been . I understand the potatoe farmers up there are having a time of it. 25 elk aren't bad, 750, your'e talking a lot of distruction. At first people think they are nice to have around and then find out they are a lot worse than deer

Wind, and Inexperience are two conditions that will ruin the path of a bullet. Both should not be taken lightly.
<br>DISCIPLINE, SAFETY, PRACTICE, SPOTTERS AND ABOVE ALL PAY ATTENTION TO DETAILS. LONG RANGE HUNTING IS A TEAM SPORT. NEVER TRY THIS ALONE.

Saddlesore
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<br>We were almost neighbors. I've hunted that entire area for 40 years now. Up rt 872 out of Sinnemahoning and out Wykoff and drop into Medix run on the Quahanna hwy.
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<br>We have been going to Colorado the last 12 or 13 years and hunt out of Glenwood.
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<br>Where you located in Colorado?
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<br>We took in an old outfitter and some folks that hunt there from California. They get their elk most every year off the longrange guns. I think the boys from California have got 8 so far off the 338/416 Long gun as they call it.
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<br>See, we never know who we are talking to here and we could very well have met if you were still In PA.
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<br>My 100 acres is Mix Run just 4 Miles out of Driftwood---Know of it?
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<br>Got a name besides Saddlesore?
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<br>Later
<br>Darryl Cassel

Darryl. I did not live in Renovo, Just hunted there. From Driftwood down to Hiner Run. In the early 50's a nieghbor of ours moved to Renovo to run the YMCA which catered to the railroad people then. His name was Leroy Good. wife's name was Clara. Both Gone now, but he had three daughters, Patty, Donna, Kaye. I think Patty lives down the river towards Coultersport Her husband's name is Pete, but I don't know the last name. She must be about 65 now. Donna still lives in the area.I don't know where Kaye is.
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<br>My name is Vince Mautino. I grew up near Monongahela in SW PA . My Folks, brother, daughter and son live in that area now. I live in Colorado Springs.
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<br>My last deer in PA was the day I graduated from Penn state. We had gone to Renovo to say good by to Leroy and family and stay overnight. The next day we took the road over the mountains to State College. Along the way, a doe jumped off a bank on the opposite side of the road, cleared the far lane and landed on the hood of my 56 chevy.
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<br>I hunted the FlatTops Wilderness area NE\of Glenwood fro about 15 years. Had arun where I took 8 bulls in 8 years plus one in Canada. It got too crowed there with outfitters and I moved to the Gunnison area.
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<br>I'm pretty well gimped up now and would ahve to quit if it weren't for my mules. but I still take an elk every year. Maybe two this coming year. I eat one whole elk a year myself.
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<br>See, we might disagree on hunting methods, but we all have someting in commom.I shoot all my elk within 50 yards usually. I think the furthest was 150, and the one in Canada was about 325 yds

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DC,
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<br>Thanks for the info,at 2K.............

Saddlesore you are repeating yourself. You must'a ate one too many jelly donuts today;)

Saddlesore
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<br>Excellent information and i know all the areas you mentioned.
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<br>One day we may meet and i will have a few dozen jelly donuts for you and the mules.
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<br> Two of my friends have mules and they pack and drag elk the best of any animal I have been around.
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<br>You take care and hope to see you someday. We always hunt the 3rd season. Wife and I set the tent at 7500 feet and don't come out for about 9 days.
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<br>Later
<br>Darryl Cassel
<br>PS The smell of burning gun powder still makes me horney. Maybe why I like to hunt with the wife???

Saddlesore, -- that Gunnison area has been my stomping grounds for a bunch of years. Which direction do you hunt out of there? The hotel is a stop with the basement first priority. I hunt all directions out of there, depends on season and weather. I will probably hunt the Durango area this year. -- no