Home Forums Hunting & Shooting BPCR Little help with a trapdoor!!

Hi all, I'm new tonight!!
Glad ta pull up a seat and listen ta some good stories and learn something!
I just purchased a real 1873 45-70 trapdoor Springfield rifle. It's in great shape an I'm proud of her!!
My major drawback to all this is finding ammo for it!! I need blackpowder loads and they are kind of hard to find.
I was told that there's a couple manufacturers out there who make "modern" ammo that states on the box SAFE FOR TRAPDOOR RIFLES
Now I don't remember ever seein anything like that on a box, but I never paid much attention to 45-70's before either.
So I want to ask the shooters and owners of these guns,YOU! I only want 1 box of shells. I want to shoot her a few times for the history and enjoyment. Then she's going away for years safely!!
Anyone know of these "modern" trapdoor safe cartridges?
I have found BP loads at 35.00 a box of 20!!! Dang that's steep!!
Thank ye all!!

Ol Bentflint! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Regardless of which propellent you choose,smokeless, or black...........stick with cast bullets only. Those old original iron tubes do not stand up well to jacketed bullets.....hard as it may seem to believe,no more than 20 rounds of the wrong ammo can inflict some signifigant harm.

by way of clarification........It's not just about the jacketed slugs wearing on the throat, and leade......It's moreso a function of GAS CUTTING...............hot ,erosive gas....smokeless gives WAY hotter temps,than black.

The original chambers were capacious,by design,and that just magnifies the problem.

Good luck, GTC

Bent, glad to see ya onboard!! If you are only going to fire one box of ammo and then put it away, 35 bucks isn't a bad one time deal. Go for it!!

Besides, It'll probably shoot WAY better , with good BP loads.Some of 'em are flat amazing....and really come into their own ,at 500 yards.

In deferance to generous throat dimensions, try to get something along the lines of a 25 to 1 lead tin bullet,and a proper BP lube.

Have fun..........hope you'll consider keeping the rifle in service,a bit more than 20 rounds worth.

Work Safe , GTC

You might look into the "Cowboy" loads, they're mostly loaded to trapdoor pressures with lead bullets. If that rifle is in good shape you certainly wouldn't want to load it up with 70 grs of 2f and 405 gr lead bullets, it's just way to much fun to see just how well those old buggers do shoot. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well I thank ye all so much. My idea is to get a box of cowboy loads and try her out.
This is a basically unused rifle and although it shows it's age gracefully and has a great barrel and bore, I want to keep it as unused as possible.
Besides if I go out there and break something, it's not original or untouched. Down goes the value.
Thank ye again and I'll be a talkin to ya all on some of th other posts another night around th fire!

ready ta shoot flint!

Bent. I own and hunt with an original Sharps. If you have a Harly ya ride it. If ya have a beautiful wife or girlfriend ya make love to her. Ya have a good rifle ya shoot it and hunt with it. By the way, is it a carbine or rifle??? Carbines buck right smartly with 400 grain+ bullets.

ET! I sure would like ta see that Sharps! I think I'll enjoy it awhile an put it away though. I got a nice 98K and a couple real nice muzzleloaders, etc ta shoot. I just want to basically keep it as an investment.
It is a rifle. It also has the original rod and sling that came with it!
I agree with what you say about "havin fun usin yer tools!!"

Bentflint does that rifle have the Buffington sight on it? If it does those things shoot amazingly accurate at long range.

Ranch, I don't actually know. I couldn't tell cause I ain't never heard of one. I don't have the rifle yet, it's in transit from Louisville,Ky. I'm hoping for about Thursday or Friday next week, or the weekend!!
Could ye be so kind as to tell Ol Ignorant Flint how he could tell the difference?
The rifle is all original from 1873. It's purty in the pictures an the guy selling it is honest.
With you all's help I can learn about this rifle.
I come from Muzzleloader Mag. campfire forum and they are great folks from the 1750's ta the 1840's. I got me some smokepoles, love em all, but I seen this Trapdoor, something clicked and I bid on it.
Right now there's a lot of em for sale. Years from now when there ain't many. Ol Flint is a gonna pull that rifle out an make some jaws drop and some purse strings loosen!! I hope.!

If the rear sight looks like a flat peice of steel with a few holes in it, one christmas tree shaped , and the other round with an adjustment screw sticking out the top, its a buffington.
I miss the days when spending the weekend in the 18 ft Cheyenne lodge, and shooting a pound of powder thru the 54 flinter was called fun.
Still have my NAPR card around someplace, not that it does much good .

There was a fellow who experienced lots of frustration over trying to get the old Trapdoors to shoot well something like 30 years ago.

As a result he went back and did lots of research and experimenting, sorta made it one of those "life's goals" type projects.

He was successful, very successful at doing this. He's dead now, but his wife still sells his excellent book.

Do a search for "Springfield Trapdoor, Spence Wolf" and you should be able to find it.

In it you will discover that 1, you're pretty much going to want to shoot relatively soft, cast Lead bullets over charges of Blackpowder.

It turns out that, while the Trapdoor, like many old designs isn't all that strong, it can handle large quantities of BP and generate LOTS of power!

This is because BP, unlike Smokeless, generates relatively low pressure ALL the way down the barrel, which translates into lots of energy.

Smokeless powders generate large amounts of pressure, mainly in the first few inches of the barrel and thus must be limited to the action's strength which never lets them achieve BP like velocities etc.

Also, the design of the barrel's bore and rifling on Trapdoors is such that they often require bullets to "bump up" to seal the bore, something that Smokeless loads and jacketed bullets won't do.

Even a little Trapdoor Carbine, with original loads, is no slouch for power!

http://community.webshots.com/photo/18461926/41263340sXxnJU

http://community.webshots.com/photo/14916398/160235308pXvETv

http://community.webshots.com/photo/14916398/160236722TZgnuT

Nice pics bill! Looks like a fun time! Those carbines will shake you up. I got a Russian M44 in 7.62 by 54R and it's about like a 308!! Man, clears the head!!
Mine is a rifle and I believe he said it was around 7-8 pounds so I'll still know it's there!
I'll let y'all know about the sight when she gets here!
I got cowboy ammo for it. Loaded just like the original shells were with a big ol hunka lead in the end of it!!
Thanks guys!!

Bent this morning I went over to one of my neighbors place and during the course of an hour or so we ran a couple of boxes each thru my sharps and his original trapdoor rifle. He'ld shoot the sharps a bit, and I'ld shoot the trapdoor. Then we'ld go back to our own rifles, just making lots of smoke and noise punching holes in targets and bouncing rocks around.
Fine way to spend a hot morning.