Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters 7X57 Messican Mauser velocities?

I always heard and learned in school that Mex's were small ring 98's and a desirable action for a build in the 7mm + calibers.
BTW, congrats on your Gamecocks taking the CWS , wish I could say wait until football season, but it won't be this year!

Sweet find there man. I'm turning green here.

I've had a custom Mexican '98 going for a few years which is extremely close to being finished. Not quite as nice as Butch's, but damn fine with many of the refinements he included except the aftermarket bottom metal.

If I were you I'd be all over that other rifle at that price.

One thing to keep in mind is that you could turn down those tubes, shave off a couple of turns on the face and recut the chamber and likely have a coupla SERIOUS shooters on your hands!! The take-off barrels, from what my 'smith said (he sold mine and put the funds toward my build), really were quality.

If I had another SR'98 I'd do a standard 257 Roberts as lightweight as I could. What a perfect hunting rig!

Lots of informations about the "Mexican Mausers" that is not quite accurate. There are small ring, large ring, and.....intermediate ring versions. It can be a tough chore to sort them out. I find it challenging.
Go to the Brownells website, find an article entitled "The Long and Short of Mauser Actions". This might provide some helpful info.
Flaigs built some of their Ace models on Mex Mausers, most I have handled seem to be very well done and good shooters. I have one that is a 257AI that has excellent metal work. Craftmenship on the wood could not be better. Alas, my wood is not nearly as pretty as that pictured earlier in this string.

The 1910 and 1936 small ring M98 mausers have some really neat actions and make good donors for customs. One thing to be real careful of when buying one of these is the bolt face. For some reason the bolt face on these Mexicans are real prone to pitting and replacements are very rare. I'm sure it has something to do with the corrisive ammo they fired but the Mexican M98's seemed to suffer worse than a lot of other M98's. I've walked away from 3 that I really wanted because of it.

Here's one I had built a few years ago. The metal work was done by Mark Stratton and the stock by Chic Worthing.





I ran run full power modern ammo through it. It feeds slick as glass and it's very accurate too.

Terry

The one thing my rifle won't have that I would have loved is the "springfield style" cocking peice. I love that!

As Wayne & Garth would say, "SCHA-WING"!!!!!!!!!!!

Running slightly lower pressures one should be able to get 7-08 numbers from the 7x57 w/out pushing things at all. Bigger case.

Damn Terry,
All your rifles are very nice.
Butch

I was pretty sure that I had made a great buy, but you folks have me shook up about now. I had the 7-08 in mind when I made this post, and you all have me thinking that sinking some more cash into this little rifle is not a bad idea. I'll get the other one too, while I'm at it. I have bought a lot of guns from my buddy over the years, and a few have turned out to be stellar deals. I also see these gorgeous finished works of art that have been posted, and this gives me a vision of the possibilities inherent in mine. I notice that the safety looks differenton those posted above, and I will look into these options too. I always preferred a tang safety, but any that will function quietly, smoothly, and properly is all that matters. The bolt on my speciman is smoothe already, but I will probably have the bolt bent. It sticks straight out like a dog heisting his leg, and will be necessary to clear a sope other than a scout mounted one. I will look at the article mentioned above. Thanks for all of the pointers and inspiration.

LongRanger280,

The fact that your Mauser has the third safety lug means it is most likely based on the 98 design, and should be strong enough for any 7x57 load. There are a few other things to look for to confirm that it is a 98-based design.

First, externally, the 98 bolt shrouds all have a flair at the front which helps deflect gas away from the shooter's face in the event of a blown case. On pre-98 Mausers, the bolt shroud lacks this flaired front.

Second, if you open the bolt and look forward toward the barrel, on the 98-based designs you will see a gas collar that sits forward of the lug recesses. The back end of the barrel fits right against the front of this collar. This gas collar has a cut on the right side to accommodate the extractor, but not a corresponding cut on the left side, is unique to the 98 Mauser and is absent in older Mauser designs.

Third, on the older Mausers, the firing pin fall is about 1", whereas on the 98 it is about 1/2". You can easily measure this by cocking the gun and seeing how far the cocking piece moves forward when you pull the trigger (on any empty gun, obviously).

Hope this helps.

Instead of turning the bolt handle down, I had mine replaced altogether with one of these:

http://www.gunengraver.biz/boltknobs.html

...and the safeties you see on these rifles are this style:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=877219

If you pulled the barrel and had the steps turned out, the chamber set back & recut, and the crown reworked (of course this is all assuming the bore is cleanish) with the above two modifications and a nice stock you'd have a class-A sporter.

If the bore isn't clean, you could do something like this:

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewproduct/?productnumber=353854

I highly recommend my gunsmith Mike McCabe. He is a fantastic guy (he and I took our 8 yo boys pronghorn hunting in Wyoming last fall) and reasonably priced. He'll do you straight.

http://mccabeguns.com/mccabegallery.html

As with anything, you can drop as much money into this as you like, but gotta ask yourself exactly what you're looking for before jumping in w/ both feet (you'd be jumping into a real money pit!).

If the rifle is un-altered, see if it cocks on opening or closing of the bolt.

Or, (this would be too damn easy ) look at the date on the crest!

Terry

Jlin222, It cocks on opening, 1/2" throw on the pin, and it has the collar with the cut on the right side. I read the article, "The Long and Short of Mauser Actions", and from what it reveals, I think that I must have a 1910 Model, Intermediate length Mauser action rifle.

efw,
Thanks for all of the information and contacts. I'll definitely look into the bolt handle and safety, and should it need any gunsmithing/building, I'll contact your friend. The crown and bore, as well as all of the metal parts look very good on this gun, so I may not do too much there. It shoots good for open sights and 56 year old eyeballs. I plan to give it to my grandson one day, but would like to scope it for my own use in the meantime. I was thinking maybe a Vortex 1.5X4X32 or something along those lines. If it will shoot along with a 7-08, that should be enough scope for me out to 400+ yards or so.

Liketoshoot,
It cocks on opening.

TC1,
The date is 1931 with the Mexican Crest in VG condition.

Thanks for all the help. You guys are the best!

Just wondering about something else...if it is indeed a 1910 action, would it have been made in Mexico, or more likely Europe? Was it not later on toward the middle of the century when Mexico began to build there own Mausers? The metal and machine work on this looks too good to be done in Mexico to me.

I'm pretty sure it was built in eastern Europe. Just like my Argentine, was made by DWM in Germmany. Most mausers were marked for the country they were made for.
Butch

LongRanger:

Based on your description, you definitely have a Mauser 98 pattern action. I believe the Mexican intermediate length actions measured about 8.5", versus the standard length Mausers which measured 8.75" long. A quick ruler check would confirm this if you haven't already done so.

As to where it was made, post-WW I, Germany was forbidden to build and sell military weapons for many years, so it likely was not made in Germany. Due to this restriction on German manufacturers, a lot of Mausers were built and exported by FN in Belgium and CZ in Brno, Czechoslovakia to many countries including Mexico, according to Ludwig Olson's reference work, "Mauser Bolt Actions." Based on the photos in Olson's book, it appears to have been common practice for exported actions to have the manufacturer stamped on the left receiver sidewall behind the ring. Thus, rifles produced at DWM (pre-WW I) would have a stamping DEUTSCHE WAFFEN UND MUNITIONFABRIK BERLIN, Austrian produced rifles would have STEYR-SOLOTHURN, etc., Belgian manufactured FN rifles would have FAB. NAT. D'ARMES de GUERRE, etc., and so on. Czech produced rifles frequently had a Z inside a circle stamped on various parts as well as CESKOSLOVENSKA ZBROJOVKA,A.S. BRNO on the receiver wall.

I assume that yours does not have any such markings on its receiver wall.

Also, the description of the possible proof mark that you found does not seem to match the proof marks of Germany, Austria, Belgium or Czechoslovakia. Olson's book states specifically that the Mexican 1936 action WAS built in Mexico, but does not say exactly when Mexico began producing its own rifles.

So, if your rifle has not had the markings polished off, and was built in 1931, my best guess that it was built in Mexico. Hope this helps.

Reference

M98 STANDARD LENGTH ACTIONS

I am going to group different actions by length, ring diameter, and barrel shank diameter. The first group will be Type I, these are the "most standard" Mausers. Probably 75% or more of all Mausers produced after 1898 will fall into this category. I am not going to list every model, that would take a book of it's own, but if your particular model is not listed, comparing the dimensions will place it into the correct category. So here are the dimensions for

Type I:
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.315
Recvr ring dia: 1.410 large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

Some of the models that fall into Type I are:
Chilean M1912, Steyr
GEW 98, various mfr's
Brazilian M1908/34, Brno
VZ24, 98/22, 98/29, Brno
M1908 Brazilian, DWM
M1909 Argentine, DWM
M24/30 Venezuelan, FN
M1935 Peruvian, FN
Standard Modell, Mauser Oberndorf
K98k, various mfr's

Remember that the above list is not all-inclusive, the truth is, MOST M98 Mausers fall into this category.


Type II, standard length, small ring, small shank
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.315
Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
Barrel shank dia: .980 small shank

This is pretty much a Czechoslovakian design, the main members of this group are the VZ33 and the G33-40, a commercial version is the VZ47.


Type III, standard length, small ring, large shank
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7,835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.315
Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

As you can see by comparing the receiver ring diameter and the barrel shank diameter, there is not a lot of meat left in this receiver! The main example is the Kar98, and for obvious reasons, it is not wise to rechamber these to a high pressure cartridge.


Type IV, standard length, small ring, small shank, long magazine.
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.400
Recvr ring dia: 1.300 small ring
Barrel shank dia: .980 small shank

These are mainly commercial models, they are identical to Type II, with the exception of a longer magazine to handle 30-06 length cartridges. Main examples are the Husqvarna commercial action, and the Brno ZG47.


Type V, standard length, large ring, large shank, long magazine.
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.370
Magazine length: 3.400
Recvr ring dia: 1.410 large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100 large shank

This is a beefier version of the Type IV. It is typified by the late FN commercial actions.


M98 INTERMEDIATE LENGTH ACTIONS

This is actually a fairly small group of models, the amount of headaches these cause (when trying to find a part or stock) is way out of proportion to the number of models. Most of these will have some part of the action shortened to save weight. Starting off with Type VI:

Type VI, Oberndorf intermediate action
Action OAL: 8.750
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.165
Magazine length: 3.115
Receiver ring dia: 1.410, large ring
Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

I call this the Oberndorf intermediate action, as they are the only ones who produced it. Commonly encountered models include:
1903 Turk
1909 Peruvian
1935 Argentine
Oberndorf Commercial

The 1903 Turk and the 1909 Peruvian also share some other qualities. They both have a very high clip bridge, and a long curved arm on the ejector box that puts pressure on a stripper clip loaded into the receiver, holding it in place. The 1935 Argentine and the Oberndorf commercial action do not have this.
This type has a longer than normal receiver ring, and a longer than normal cocking piece, with a shorter than normal bolt body, hard to figure where the weight savings come in!
The Oberndorf commercial action was also available in a small ring version, all other dimensions identical.


Type VII, FN24 and Yugo actions
Action OAL: 8.500
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
Bolt body length: 6.115
Magazine length: 3.232
Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank

This is the FN M24 action, and the Yugoslavian M48 series. I call this group the Yugoslavian intermediate action. There is also a Type VIIA, FN24 Mexican, see below.


Type VIIA, FN24 Mexican
Action OAL: 8.500
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
Bolt body length: 6.165
Magazine length: 3.232
Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank

I call the Type VIIA the Mexican large ring action. The only difference between the Type VII and VIIA is the length of the bolt body (0.050 difference).


Type VIII, small ring Mexican
Action OAL: 8.500
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.620
Bolt body length: 6.080
Magazine length: 3.118
Recvr ring dia: 1.300, small ring
Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

The Type VIII has the shortest bolt body in this group. Common models are the Mexican M1910, and M1936. Either one can be found manufactured by FN or Fabrica de Armas in Mexico City.

LONG AND SHORT ACTIONS

Now we are into the expensive stuff! The long actions and short actions are commercial only. The long actions are divided into 2 types, the "British" type and the French type. The British type are not necessarily made in England, but are usually chambered for British cartridges, such as the .416 Rigby or .404 Jeffery. The French type is even longer than the British type, but the French type is actually made in France.

Type IX, British Type, aka M98 long, aka Commercial Magnum
Action OAL: 9.150
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.835
Bolt body length: 6.770
Magazine length: 3.640/3.840
Recvr ring dia: 1.410, large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.100, large shank


Type X, French Type, aka French Magnum, aka Brevex Magnum
Action OAL: 9.240
Recvr screws, center to center: 8.207
Bolt body length: 6.740
Magazine length: 3.900
Recvr ring dia: 1.500, X-large ring
Barrel shank dia: 1.141, X-large shank.

Notice that the French magnum is larger in every dimension than the British magnum, but the French bolt is shorter by .030"



Type XI, "True" short action, aka Commercial Kurz
Action OAL: 8.125
Recvr screws, center to center: 7.225
Bolt body length: 5.760
Magazine length: 2.725
Recvr ring dia: 1.300, small ring
Barrel shank dia: .980, small shank

These are very rare and expensive, and a collector's item on their own. Chambered for short cartridges such as the .250 Savage, they are so hard to come by that they are often made by cutting down a standard Type I M98 action. If you suspect you have one, look for a welded receiver just forward of the thumb cut. Bolts are usually welded just behind the aft end of the guide rib.

Butch,

That's a pretty good reference. However, it has at least a couple of errors in it.

Under type II, the small ring Brno commercial action is found in the post-war 21H/22F series of rifles, not the VZ47, which is an airgun.

The Brno ZG47 is listed under Type IV as a small ring commercial action. In fact it is a large ring commercial action.

I know this because I own both a 21H and a ZG47. :-)

Also, under Type IV is the Husqvarna commercial action, which I do not consider a m98 type because it lacks the receiver ring gas collar, an important safety feature which earlier Mauser actions lacked. It is more like a hybrid between the 96 and 98 types, incorporating many of the 98 features such as 3rd safety lug, cock on opening, shorter firing pin fall and gas flange at the front of the bolt shroud. See Frank de Haas detailed discussion in his Bolt Action Rifles book. de Haas speculates that the Husqvarna was developed from the Swedish 96 action. I know, technical trivia. :-)

That is one sweet looking rifle!

After doing more research, as well as confirming the measurements so kindly provided above, I have determined that I have the Small Ring 98 action, or the type VIII. I feel that if it was FN manufacture, the quality is good. I wonder, if it was made in Mexico, is the quality still good? Thanks for all of the help. I had the chance yesterday to show the rifle to my son and grandson. They were both tickled, and impressed with the wood as well. In any case, for $125, I did good and should pick up the other rifle too, huh? The wood on it was even nicer, IIRC.