Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Bullets for Long Range Hunting

Does anyone besides me think that Nosler Partitions are not very accurate? I guess I'm just cursed but I find Nosler Partitions to be on the low end of acceptable accuracy in almost every rifle I have tried them in. Now if MOA plus is Ok, then they are OK, but I like mine to hold a good bit tighter than that.

Hello E
<br>
<br>Since you refered to "Now these come along" in your Post to If it Flies, I guess that means me or one of the other LR hunters.
<br>
<br>I would like to respond to your post if I may.
<br>
<br>First it was not the Game King (in your Post) we had been talking about, it was the Match King unless I missed something, which is possible.
<br>
<br>Next, NOBODY ever said the MK was the Perfect bullet. We all know there is no such thing for every situation.
<br>
<br>We/I only said, it worked for us, as longrange shooters, at much further yardages then the 5 or 600 yards that you said you shot the Partitions at. The MK also worked for us at short range too. I also mentioned that, we want the most accurate bullet we can get and the Nosler is most certainly not that bullet at the ranges we shoot. The MK "is" so far though.
<br>That, was what I said. I/we didn't say that it was the PERFECT bullet as you mentioned.
<br>
<br>I have a question that you may want to relate to Nosler. Do you think they would recommend, "for every Hunter" their 150 or 160 gr 7mm Partition bullet at 500 or 600 yards (I believe you mentioned that one) for big game, AND put that in writing?
<br>If you think for a moment they would, then the sun Will certainly come up in the West tomorrow.
<br>
<br>You know darn well they wouldn't. No bullet company would make that recommendation just like Sierra won't recommend Match Kings for EVERY hunters situation so they just say don't use them period. I really don't care what a tech at Sierra says because I have seen what the MK does first hand and will continue using them unless they stop production.
<br>
<br>As far as the bullet tumbling, all high BC Boat tail bullets will start to tumble when the velocity drops to around 1000 FPS or a little less on it's downward path.
<br>
<br>The Nosler Partition is not perfect and neither is any other bullet including the MK.
<br>For "our" application, the MK is our favorite bullet. For "YOUR" application, the Partition is the bullet.
<br>Not a problem for me at all, I can live with your bullet selection. Maybe you should try to live with our selection also?
<br>
<br>Later
<br>Darryl
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

Thanks to all you guys for the info,some good points and counter points there.I think I'll probably buy a box this weekend and give em a shot(as much as I hate to put it that way) ASAP anyway and see how they look on paper. If I listened to all I'v been told about bullet do's and don'ts, I would'nt be shooting the BTs. Like both Don and I said you either love em or hate em and the haters seem to outnumber us 98% to 2% but that means more for us. I also would never have thought about using a polymer or nylon tipped bullet on elk but theres an article in the last Handloader where they're doing exactly that with the 7mm Sciroccos. I 'll definitely take a look at them anyway.
<br>
<br>Wyowhisper,know how you feel about the weather,thought the snow would about be melted this weekend and I could get up there and do some shooting and spotting,but drove home in near white out conditions tonite,AARRGGHH!
<br>
<br>Boyd, I'v actually had the 7RUM since last spring,its still new to me, I got the first one in the area, the 300s were selling like crazy and I spent weeks reading everything I could find on them and walked into the store cash in hand and the guy said "yeah we just got a few 7mms in". Back to the magazine rack! Was'nt much to read about that caliber but I think I made the right choice for my app.s. If you have'nt already,check out Gene Williams post "Report on the 7mm ultra mag" in Reloading ,Big Game Rifles. He was kind enough to Email me some advice on working up loads so when I get done testing I'll post the 26 in. bbl versus 29.5. Its a sweet shooting rifle,made the mistake of letting a buddy shoot it the first time out, just about had to wrestle him to get it back. Talk to you later, Jeff
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

If it Flies -
<br>
<br>I've never found the Partition to be the most accurate bullet in any given rifle, either, although I do have a 7RMAG in which the 150 Partition gives the old Solid Base (now THAT was an accurate bullet) a run for its money. They've always been acceptable, in the MOA+ range as you mentioned, which actually should be okay for most hunting circumstances in which they'd be used, but, it's nice to have a bullet that you KNOW is going to go right where you want it to.
<br>
<br>R-WEST
<br>
<br>

If It Flies... My experience with Nosler Partitions is limited to a few rifles, and in all but one I never got very good accuracy. In my 06, which grouped .70 MOA with Sierra Game Kings at 100 yards, the best I could do with Nosler Partitions was a group over 2 inches. In my heavy barrelled 6mm however, 95 grain NP bullets outperformed any other bullets I tried. It puts 5 of the Partitions in a slightly oval hole. So, my very limited anecdotal evidence suggests inconsistent accuracy in the Nosler Partitions.
<br>
<br>The tone of the LR threads bothers me. I'm fascinated with the technology and skill of LR hunting, and put off by its proponents. It comes over to me like somone with a thin skin claiming inffallability. There have been some shots from opponents, true, but everytime I try to just read to learn from LR experience, I feel like these guys are patronizing me. LR hunters seem to claim that their experience cannot be questioned, but the experience of anyone else is invalid. I'm also annoyed every time a LR evangelist says their opponents are claiming such shooting can't be done. That is shifting the ground of argument. I don't think anyone is saying an elk can't be killed cleanly at 2000 plus yards. Some are questioning the ethics, and some of the same are suspicious about the consistency claimed, especially with the bullets used. But no one is saying it can't be done. It is superb shooting.
<br>
<br>Regarding bullets, if you read this entire thread, you have to come to one conclusion: That MK bullets perform better at ranges over 1000 yards than they do at usual hunting ranges, say under 300 yards. That conclusion is inescapable if you accept the manufacturer's analysis of its own bullet, based on feedback from many hunters, and you also accept the anecdotal evidence of the LR hunters. I don't think either source is lying. The bullets fail often enough that they got a bad rep among hunters. They have so far worked well for the LR hunters. A more likely explanation of this discrepancy in observed bullet performance is that the LR guys have so far beat the odds. I believe that the LR guys are waging a wonderful battle against simple physics, animal behaviour, and statistical probability, and have beat the odds so far if they have never lost an animal hit.
<br>
<br>On bullet "failure" if a bullet performs 90% of the time to its max capability in terms of penetration and expansion, and the hunter places shots so well that he only needs that full capability for perhaps one animal in 20, then you can have a long, consistent string of quick kills. But the time is coming when the need for full performance on an animal converges with the one bullet in ten that delivers less. The hunter shooting such a bullet is on a collision course with reality unless he is very lucky, which I hope for him.
<br>
<br>Just curious: how about this for a test? If we had one excellent marksman, a long range man, shoot the same rifle at two targets, one at say 1500 yards, the other at 100 yards. The targets could be the typical 8 or 10 inch plate to represent vitals, or we could make it more realistic and mark out a deer vital area on a life sized target and cover it with real deer hair. The shooter could have a spotter by his side with bigeyes and any other equipment. I would be willing to bet even money shot for shot, that he will hit the closer target and miss the farther one, if I could find a taker to bet he will hit the 1500 target and miss the 100 yard one. The more shots fired the better. The only catch is that the shooter has to be neutral and do his best to hit each shot.
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>

Hello
<br>
<br>With my spotter and a spotter round fired first (as we always do while hunting) in front or behind the animal, I would take that bet. I would also only take the shot with the absence of wind gusts just like when we are hunting.
<br>Something else to remember, The elk kill zone is closer to 24 " and the deer is 16"to 18" which contains the heart and lungs.
<br>The elk especially have a large heart and very large lung area.
<br>
<br>Darryl Cassel

I like that bet, I'll shoot an 8 inch plate at 100 yards and you and your spotter get the same target at 1500 yards. Shall we say a $1000 a shot, both hit, no pay, either miss and the other hits, pay on the spot in cash. Shoot until one side says "Uncle".

IIFID...So you are gonna shoot offhand at an 8 inch target at 100 yard's.And Darryl is gonna shoot at 1500 yard's with his 338-416 Rigby Imp with the 37"barrel.Shooting a 300gr MK at 3300fps.Using the same method he use's when he sit's up on a Deer.Am I correct so far?..Can I get in on this too?Sound's like an easy way to make a few thousand dollar's..:)

Ahem....ok let me get this straight..
<br>
<br>IFID..is gonna shoot off hand with his rifle at 100 yards at an 8" plate. ie: a typical hunting situation.
<br>
<br>Darryl, is gonna use his spotter, his rifle and his equipment, and get a spotter round. at a 24" plate at 1500 yards. ie: a typical hunting situation.
<br>
<br>
<br>Ok is anyone allowed to get in on the betting?
<br>
<br>I'll provide lodging and the range for the shoot...
<br>
<br>this may take awhile to complete... come to think of it...
<br>we could be there for a week or so....

WyoWhisper, I think you got it right except, unless I'm reading it wrong IFID said that Darryl has to shoot at an 8" plate as well. Even if that's the case I wish I had the money to get in on this bet.

If
<br>
<br>I believe the other poster said to shooT at 100 yards "AND" 1500 yards and see how many missed targets there were at 1500 yds as compared to 100 yards. He also said a 10" plate and you said 8".
<br>
<br>I countered by saying the KILL area for an elk is 24". That means we have a window of 24" for the elk kill.
<br>
<br>So, here is what I would bet "you". Since the yardage is 15X further at 1500 yards as to 100 yards, we will start with a 24" kill zone target at 1500 yards.
<br>Lets divide 15 into the 24 " and you now have a 1.60" target to shoot at 100 yards which is the equal size as to what I would be shooting at 1500 Yards as a comparison of difficulty.
<br>You can even set your hunting rifle in sandbags if you wish and NOW lets go for your bet? Sound good?
<br>
<br>Probably the best scenerio would be for you to shoot off hand at the size plate (8") you mentioned and Boyd and I will shoot at the 24" kill zone target of 24" at 1500 Yards and see if you are still interested in the bet? This makes the difficulty more equal doesn't it?
<br>
<br>Nobody EVER said we were able to put every shot in an 8" or 10" plate at 1500 yards. We only need to put our shots into a 24" (elk) or 16" (deer) kill area.
<br>Why would we be interested in shooting an 8" or 10" target at 1500 yards when the kill area of 24" and is the SAME for the shortrange shooter?
<br> Lets add some difficulty for the short range shooter here too since we are betting and see just how well he does. Isn't that fair???? .
<br>
<br>I wouldn't take the bet of two mentioned scenerios if I were you.
<br>
<br>Darryl Cassel

Why is it that offhand is the "typical" shot at 100 yards? I have killed many an animal in my day, but very few were fired at offhand. To imply that SRH must be shooting offhand is as wrong as many of the statements made about LRH.

DC
<br>The mention of the bet was not a target shooting contest. If you want to compare a benchrest gun shooting at 1.6in target at 100 yards to you shooting at 1500 yards, I'll take that bet any day.
<br>
<br>The bet was for HUNTING, therefore the target is the same size regardless of distance, isn't it? A deer doesn't get bigger at 1500yds.

Hello KI
<br>
<br>I was refering to If it flies on that one as he would be shooting his shortrange carry hunting rifle for this bet.
<br>
<br>Agreed, a benchrest rifle will put it in the 1.6" target and I only mentioned it to make the bet more interesting.
<br>
<br>I also mentioned that the shortrange or longrange hunter has the SAME kill zone at the two ranges.
<br>
<br>Again, I added some spice to the bet for Mr. If.
<br>
<br>I know there are many benchrest shooters that would take me up on that one and I think I did only mentioned that 1.6' deal to If it flies since he was so anxious to prove us wrong by his rediculous $1000.00 per shot wagering.
<br>
<br>Darryl

DC
<br>
<br>$1000 a shot seems a bit boring. What if it was strip shooting. You miss a shot, you lose (NOT LOOSE) a piece of clothing. First one to die of embarASSment loses. I'm sure there has to be some other better ideas than money.

I believe the bet involved a paper plate of the same size at both distances. If you're gonna use a 24 inch target, I think IIFID is entitled to a target of the same size. And I think that with same size targets, even if he is shooting offhand, that you will miss before he does. That is, him shooting at a paper plate 100 yards from an unsupported position, and you shooting at the same paper plate at 1500 yards with a spotter, a spotter round, and a target rifle chambered for whatever cartridge you wish. Seeing as I don't have lots of money, I ain't gonna make a wager on it, but whoever wishes can.
<br> If we like, we can make this a poatal match. That's it! Short range hunters get to shoot at a paper plate at 100 yards with whatever they like, offhand, for ten shots. LR hunters get the same size target at 1500 yards, and it's freestyle for them, still ten shots. LR hunters get a max of two spotter rounds.
<br> All people who get ten rounds out of ten would be eligible for a final shoot off I guess. Hmm.....
<br> Of course, any LR hunter who doesn't like those odds can shoot 100 yards offhand as well. This should be interesting....

Critters are of the same size vitals at 100yds,as they are at any other range. Choose an "average" vitals size,for a given class of Game and both men shoot for the vitals,via the two different trains of thought.
<br>
<br>I am a realist and know an Elk is a much easier target at 100yds,than at 1500yds.
<br>
<br>That being said,a first round hit in the vitals at 1500yds even with the aid of a spotter round,is pretty good shooting.
<br>
<br>My point is,the guy Hunting Elk presented with a 100yd shot,isn't threading the poke into an Elk's 2.4" vitals. Vitals are vitals,regardless of distance. They should be equated in that manner.
<br>
<br>Were you boys to get serious,I think a lifesize silhouette target of plywood or such,would be the best means of determining a meaningful hit. A 24" outline of the vitals could be marked in a slightly different color,so as to mark the scoring region,without actually aiding sight enhancement. I've never seen an Elk with a target on his side. So it is more than shooting at a given size target,it is doing so within the proper anatomical region,so as to replicate a typical kill shot. A hit in the outlined vitals,is a kill. One outside is simply a miss,but should be weighed heavily against total score in a string of shots,as it is a wounding shot. It should be scored as a penalty.
<br>
<br>I think that best represents actual field conditions. I've made plywood lifesize silhouettes and it adds another dimension to practice.
<br>
<br>Food for thought..................

Big Stick has it right: vital size is the same at any range. I said nothing about offhand in my original proposal and I figured both ranges would be fired from the same rest. I rarely shoot offhand at any range, though a bull elk I powder burned was offhand as I spun out of his way. The point of the test was to eliminate all variables except the range, since range is the real issue. That's why I had the same person doing the shooting. So the targets are the same size, the shooter uses the same rifle and scope and shoots from whatever position he chooses so long as it is the same for both ranges . What size target doesn't matter, whether a paper plate or a life sized cutout. I didn't envision any spotter rounds either, just one shot per target, but I guess I could give that much advantage to the long range target. And I'd even go for two shooters. As soon as we want a spotter round, MOA targets or any other edge, we are admitting the long range target is far more difficult to hit and that the odds of a miss are greater. Such a bet is more like investing than gambling, and the application to hunting shots is...

KI
<br>
<br>That would be a bit cold for the loser. I agree
<br>
<br>
<br>For the others who responded, I fully realize the vitals are the same size, regardless of the range.
<br>If you read what I said, it was directed to If it flies since he was the one talking his rediculous betting game. I was simply leveling out the playing field for this bet of his.
<br>
<br>If he or any short range shooter wants to try to shoot their rifles against ours and shoot at 8 or 10" plates at 100 yards and ALSO at 1500 Yards, I will take any of you up on that one. You must shoot at 1500 Yards also along with the 100 yard target. We will too. Any takers NOW????
<br>
<br>That's how rediculous this is. The short range shooter WILL lose this one for sure.
<br>
<br>Just an explanation guys.
<br>Darryl
<br>