Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Bullets for Long Range Hunting

WyoWhisper don't let'em get to you. You did make a new aquaintence or two. However most of them just switched over to your guys home site rather than get caught up in the debates here. Hey I may not be a LR hunter, but I'm definitely interested in what you guys do. You aren't that far away. If want to poke some prairie dogs or coyotes waaaaaaaay out there come on up the door is open up this way to ya know. There are plenty of us reading the information here, but I highly suspect that many are chosing to stay out of the debate, as in it's not our fight. Besides many of us have been here a long time and have already made up our minds about those that like to stir things up just for the sake of doing it. We ignore them...hint, hint.

How about this for a contest - Pick any type of target you want, of any size size you want, use the same target for both the short range and the long range shooters. I'll shoot offhand at 200 yards, you shoot benchrest at 1500 yards. I get to stand on level ground, and shoot at a target at approximately the same level, you have to shoot in the mountains you hunt Elk in, but get to choose the actual location. I'll shoot at an unprotected range here in CA.
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<br>Pick a day, we both shoot on the same day, at 9:00 AM local time.
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<br>12 minutes for 2 convertible sighters and 10 shots for record. Your second sighter may be fired once firing for record has begun. The sighter must be announced as such prior to the shot. We both get spotters.
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<br>I'm sure that we can come up with local volunteer witnesses from the participants on this forum. I get to pick the witness to your shooting, you get to pick the witness to mine.
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<br>I really can't afford to put $10000 in escrow,so how about $250 per shot for an escrow of $2500?
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<br>Shots to be scored hit/miss. The shooter with the most hits is the winner, and gets $250 per shot for the difference in scores. If I win, I'll donate the proceeds to the NRA ILA.
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<br>And don't read this as me saying that "you can't do it" at long range. All I'm saying is that on any given day, I feel I've got better odds hitting any particular target offhand at 200 than you do benchrest in the field at 1500. I'm willing to be proved wrong.
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<br>Are any of you LRH'rs coming out to Sacramento for the 1000 yard BR nationals? If so, I might stop by and say hello.
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<br>Scott

Hey BS... haaa haa BIG SKY,
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<br>What part of MT ya from and how far from Cody??
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<br>I'm always looking to stretch the legs of any rifle.
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<br>I have a custom 6.5/284 due in June..!!!

Hey I picked that name on purpose so I could have those initials. I mean what two letters better illustrate what mostly exists on the net? Anyway I'm in northeast Montana about 4 1/2 hours northeast of Billings. You really ought to swing up this way sometime.

WyoWhisper
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<br>I am on the process of having a 6.5-284 built for what I consider long range hunting. Although my intended use is for 600yds or less, I would like to hear how you are having yours made. I assume you plan to use it for long range. What barrel, chamber specs, intended use, etc...
<br>Thanks

Darryl,
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<br>Don't let SOME of the "clique" boys get to you. You already know who a "few" of them are,
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<br>Didn't one of them post on the LR site and get the boot immediately? LMAO
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<br>Some of them just like to stir the pot - even if they have no idea what it is you are talking about - which is obvious to most reading these posts.
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<br>There are way to many "others" very interested in what you and the other LRH guys have to say. So why bother with the few SNERTS?
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<br>Have a good one,
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<br>Don

KI,
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<br>Mine is being built on a Win. LA the chamber is being cut for lapua brass and I will be sending a dummy round to the GS shortly.
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<br>It will be a Hart barrel 5 1/2, 8 twist and 28" in length with a muzzle break that vents to the sides only. I have picked the Mcmillan M40A1 stock in a woodland camo patern. Jewel HVR trigger. All metal will be teflon coated as well.
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<br>This is set up to shoot the 140, 142 and 150 SMK's I'll use it to hunt everything from PD's out to 1500 to Antelope, and Mule Deer to 1K.
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<br>I'm pretty excited as I've wanted a 6.5/284 for some time!!!!!!

WyoWhisper, thanks for the courteous reply. This thing doesn't seem to be going anywhere. I truly wish I could join you and try some of your long range targets. We'd probably get along fine in person.
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<br> Maybe one of the problems is that we are reading extra meaning into posts. For example, from your reply it sounds to me as if you are saying that when you run into critical disagreement, it is taken as an attack on LR hunting and must defended as such, daily. Not so. If I say I don't think MK bullets are a good choice for game, I'm not attacking LR hunting, just disagreeing over some of the components. Same when someone expresses concern about wounding. Both of those are legit concerns at any range, and they are axiomatically and geometrically compounded as range increases. That's a Duh statement of basic knowledge. A fellow hunter shouldn't be blasted for expressing concern or questioning the judgment behind the choices of shot and bullet. Give him a courteous reply, even if it is merely, "This is my preference." And just agree to disagree if he doen't buy your opinion.
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<br> There are two main areas of question for LR shooting:
<br>1. Can the man and his equipment hit consistently at the range of the shot?
<br>2. Will the bullet perform when it gets there?
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<br>The questions, opinions and concerns about both of these will never end, especially at extreme ranges. That range was probably under 200 yards in the days of D. Boone. The solution to not being questioned pretty sharply is to not post anything, and I hope you do not take that route. How we each react toward the first challenge or queston usually determines whether the tone drifts toward the personal.
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<br>A year or so ago, Big Stick stirred some sparks when he related his long range shooting. He responded factually, reasonably and the fire went out. Try it.
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Wyowhisper:
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<br>You are really funny, analyzing my handle as though it has some deep psychological significance for me. And, if it did, like you would know what that was. As far as psychology goes, you couldn't pour urine out of a boot with the directions on the heel.
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<br>Truth is, a bunch of us were sitting around a campfire in Argentina after a very successful day dove shooting(not hunting, kill per person averaged over 1000) and we were having a few drinks(and maybe more) and I/we came up with the Spanish slogan "Si vuela, muere" which means, duh, "if it flies, it dies". We had it embroidered on a few hats and, when, I registered for 24hr. I noticed that most people had a hunting related handle. So it was a natural. If you don't like it, tough. I earned it helping the poor farmers of Argentina with their plague of doves for the last 15 years or so. BTW, before you get your panties all in a wad, there is no season, no limit, and doves are a declared(and major) agricultural pest in Argentina. Not to mention the parrot shoots.
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<br>If you went back and read all my posts on LR sniping, you would see that initially I supported it, and upon personal reflection, decided that it was not fair chase and therefore not for me. And I will stand by that decision. I have never been critical of LRS for any of the red herrings that are raised. That is, bullet performance, wounded game possibilities or any of the other objections. These all apply to any distance of hunting. Mine are personal and ethical and are a direct result of the fact that LRS( Long Range Sniping) is shooting at game beyond its defensive boundaries. That is, the LRS could jump up and down, wave flags, fart, smoke Havana cigars, and do cart wheels and the game would pay it no attention whatsoever. Has absolutely nothing to do with someone, or actually at least a pair of someones, sitting behind benchrest style rifles and shooting at whatever ranges, whether it is good or bad shooting. Has everything to do with fair chase. I could go on, but either you understand or you don't and you obviously don't.
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<br>I found it truly revealing that when I mentioned in passing that many hunters don't go hunting to kill something, that the killing is only to validate the experience, that most of the LRS participants and a few of the camp followers immediately jumped in saying that all they go for is to kill something. And every time they go out they figuratively stand in front of a mirror, and yell "KILL,KILL,KILL". Possibly if they are stuck in the kill rush of hunters formative years, but most hunters mature beyond that, some earlier and some later and come to understand that killing is actually the least important of the ingredients. To quote Gene Hills story, it is instead, "Being There".
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<br>And, I don't expect you to understand that either.
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Don Knows
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<br>Trust Me, Nobody will ever run me off a forum. My skin has thickened over the years. I know from one post how a person feels about our sport.
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<br>We just came to answer questions to those wanting to know how we do what we do. If we can do that for those who want to know, then we will.
<br>Many shooters/hunters don't have a clue how it's done.
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<br>Have been on the road today and the wife and I just drove back to PA from Ohio after a 2 week visit there.
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<br>Had trouble logging in here tonight though?
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<br>Later
<br>Darryl Cassel

Okanagan,
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<br>We don't "defend" daily but latly it sure seems that way.
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<br>As I mentioned you or anyone else is welcome at my guest ranch anytime. I will gladly show you what I know and we can stretch the legs of any rifle you have. You can even use my reloading press or what ever to load different round if you wish. Bring you own dies and we'll go get ya some pwder and we can "play" all day to get your rifles performance w a y out there....
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<br>To answer you questions. LRH practice as often as they can to keep their performance up to par. I myself will only shoot as far as I am comfortable with and only as far as I know I have confidence that I will hit where I aim. Some day are better than others, just like anyone else. some days are 500 yards days, due to my efforts and conditions and some days are 1K likewise.....
<br>As far as bullets are concerned, time and time again DC has stated the hard truth, facts about MK performance at ranges to 2100 yards. This is REAL world hard core evidence. Didn't really make a difference here. There has even been a person in the LRH community that just did some short range testing with the MK.. Same outcome..relaible performance.
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<br>What happened on this forum is when one of the LRH posted what he had accomplished. A couple of EGO driven individuals had to one up him, or prove they were just as big of a man as he was.. look at the challenge how freakin rediculous. $1000 a shot. Just goes to show that he with money and attitude had to show it. That offensive not to me but to everyone...
<br>I own a ranch and have 500,000 acres to play on .. but I don't shove money into someones face to challenge them ... thats just plain ASSININE!!!!!!!!!!
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<br>but anyway...
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<br>Your right we would probobly get along in person.. so why not stop on over to Cody. We have one of the best shooting complexs in the country. Sporting clay, trap, skeet, Cowboy action, pistol, rifle, silouette, and a high power rifle range from 25 yards to 500. We then have a 750 plate and a 1K plate to shoot at.
<br>We have 20 concrete benches to shoot from under cover from the weather and sun. We have over 20 RV hookups incase your traveling.
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<br>I have no hard feeling toward anyone on this board, the people who have voiced opinions showed who they were. Given real, questions I'll give real answers... If I can't answer it one of the LRH guys can....

IFID,
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<br>I'll reply they way you do, so we are on the same level.. fair?
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<br>Howdy pard, good morning to ya.... Love your analagies they kill me... so professor, how would you analyse yourself... the best, most arrogant egotistical person on here.....glad you had fun in Argentina, hope you kill thousands of 'em... I'm sure you have got the money to go back time and time again.
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<br>I love this.. YOU ARE WRONG
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<br>"Mine are personal and ethical and are a direct result of the fact that LRS( Long Range Sniping) is shooting at game beyond its defensive boundaries. That is, the LRS could jump up and down, wave flags, fart, smoke Havana cigars, and do cart wheels and the game would pay it no attention whatsoever."
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<br> I ( and I'm acting like you ) will bet you $1000 a min. that you cannot do this to Elk and have them not pay attention. Deal??? For that matter. Mule deer is included.
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<br>Remember for every min they don't pay attention I pay you a $1000 and for every min. they do, you pay me $1000 a min. OK??? lets start off at ten min. sessions.... by the way bring cash, if you bring a credit card I'd have to add the 4% the CC company charges me. Do you want to supply the cigars or should I?
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<br>Fair chase, beyond defensive boundaries.. ( here we go again ) I spend just as much time scouting as you do (oops your from Texas you hunt from a huge stand over feed ) I mean as the next guy does... Matter of fact I was out last night learning new travel routes... I have a cheater map too, see I keep track of all this stuff.
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<br>Defensive boundaries.. well In my opinion taking game in a relaxed state is at times a quicker less taxing kill than at short range... theres lotsa proof too...
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<br>"I mentioned in passing that many hunters don't go hunting to kill something, that the killing is only to validate the experience, that most of the LRS participants and a few of the camp followers immediately jumped in saying that all they go for is to kill something. And every time they go out they figuratively stand in front of a mirror, and yell "KILL,KILL,KILL". Possibly if they are stuck in the kill rush of hunters formative years, but most hunters mature beyond that, some earlier and some later and come to understand that killing is actually the least important of the ingredients"
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<br>I'm not sure I understand you go out side to find game. You take a weapon. What are your intentions.. TO kill right?? If not why take a weapon?
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<br>Oh thats right you want the expierience....
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<br>For me personally if I want the expierience the only thing I take with me is bear spray , just incase.
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<br>"And, I don't expect you to understand that either."
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<br>I understand all to well. I'd venture to say that I "know that killing is the least important of the ingredients" better than you .. I spend the majority of my time "afield" without any weapons. In good weather conditions throughout the summer and fall. I'd say on average I'm afield 5 day out of the week. On foot , on horse back.. what ever..During the hunting season I bet I only have a weapon in my hands for a total of 2 weeks out of a 4 month hunting season.
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<br>Just so you know, I'll say what I said in another post... I can get up close and personal with animals...
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<br>My closest shot at a deer was 3 feet.......
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<br>with my camera.
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<br>Why just last night I video taped, 7 Elk and over 50 Mule deer at ranges from 10 yards to 50 yards....
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<br>Have a good day my rancher freind....
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WyoWhisper:
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<br>I didn't expect you to understand and, amazingly enough, I was not surprised. There is no use in exploring my(or any) philosophy of hunting any further with you, it is simply that we don't view the process in the same terms.
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<br>Just to be sure, I went back and re-read my post, and sure enough, there weren't any analogies(not analagies, your spelling) in it. If you don't understand a word, it would behoove you to look it up or not use it.
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<br>Sounds to me like you have a major case of envy going there, because some people are able to afford to go hunting in other countries. Get over it. The only reason I mentioned it was to clear up you nickle attempt at psychoanalyzing the deep meaning(LOL) of my handle. As far as my claiming to be the best at anything, I don't think so, good, maybe. Just because someone disagrees with your preferences and is able to logically state why does not make them arrogant or egotistical, but then, maybe you haven't looked up those words either.
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<br>Let's see, these animals are far enough away that they don't even react to a .378/.416 going off but clapping is going to scare them. Sure.
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<br>Finally, I am sorry that you are so restricted in your access to the outdoors, I hunt almost every day on my place and am outside 365 days a year. But, then, I live in Texas, where we are not cursed with so much of that nasty white stuff. Maybe, when you get older you can be outside enough to understand what I mean.

IFID,
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<br>Damnit! your right it wasn't an analogy. The puring piss out of boot thing. I knew I shoulda finished 6th grade....So anyway your success full you pissed me off.
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<br>Envy.. Envy... no my friend I have 1.5 million acres to hunt on I DO NOT need to hunt in another country. Envy no no no my friend...
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<br>You've done more than disagree... and I think you know that...
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<br>"Let's see, these animals are far enough away that they don't even react to a .378/.416 going off but clapping is going to scare them. Sure."
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<br>no no no, you said flag waveing and farting too....
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<br>So is it a bet? please, please, please, I could use the cash...
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<br>Oh, I am outside everyday to .. see I WORK on my ranch I don't hire someone else.. ..ooops that was nasty
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<br>You've probobly worked too but now your retired. I'm glad you have the oportunity to enjoy life, others should be so lucky ...
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<br>You may be older but don't think for a min. I don't understand... don't underestimate someone who is younger, age doesn't always = wisdom
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<br>Hey , are you related to a Bill T. ????

Wyowhisper:
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<br>No bet. Meeting you would negate the monetary gains. Please note, that unlike HUMMINGBIRD, I never said I would take it.
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<br>Just so you will know, I am not retired, unless you count being a ranch owner, real estate investor and manager, oil producer, and a few other more esoteric areas as retired. I work my ranch by myself with one hired hand. Now I don't know what size operation you have, nor do I care, but if you could pour urine out of a boot, you would know that running a fairly large ranch with one hand is not being retired.
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<br>I didn't say that age was necessary to understand anything, just that some people require more, shall we say seasoning, before they can understand other's viewpoints, and that their views of the hunting process often change as they mature. And, you apparently don't have that seasoning. I am not being personally critical of you for your view of what the sport of hunting is, simply saying that many hunters change their opinions as they do more of it, and you either haven't reached that point yet, or maybe you won't, it is not a universal phenomenon.
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<br>But, I will say this, age may not always equal wisdom, and that is certainly true(I can think of one cogent example on this thread) but youth is wasted by the young. One of my favorite sayings, is Too soon old, too late smart.
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<br>I'm not underestimating you, I don't have to.
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<br>Enjoy yourself on our land, that is those million and a half acres owned by all of us.

They say thing's are BIGGER IN TEXAS.You just proved the saying is true.And believe me that's not a good thing......One's mouth,ego and personal veiw of himself was just added to the list.......You are an ass.........

Boyd Heaton:
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<br>Hmm, I believe Sitka Deer had already awarded that title to you, so I suppose you have some expertise in that area. Considering the source, I am complimented.
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<br>Can't think of anything else, attack the messenger. Good move, right on your level. You have a nice day practicing for animal sniping, ya hear.
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<br>And, since this has deteriorated to a schoolyard level, if you let it go, I will. But, I doubt that will happen.

You are welcome for the compliment.The only person that deteriorated themselves to the school yard level was yourself.Read your above post to WYOWHISPER.That was below the belt.....I myself will not answer anymore of your post after this one..I don't know you,and by your post to WYO I don't want too....GOODBYE...........Your humble servant BOYD.......

Well now, If (ALLIGATOR MOUTH)
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<br>Since you used the same smart comment (Hummingbird)again, I guess I can respond to your reply to Wyowhisper.
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<br>Since you seem bent on wanting to keep this going with me, I have the right to respond and I think everyone here would do the same.
<br>I have not responded to you (since the other night) in hopes your lips would quit flapping but, you continue in your smart ass ways to some of the other LR Hunters here and myself with your little jabs.
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<br>First, you WON'T take the bet as was written by the original poster. Same gun AND target size at both ranges., 100 and 1500 as he stated, so don't try to say you would. I don't think you would know how to send a bullet out to 1500 yards very accurate and may not have the equipment to do so? With ALL your money though, you certainly could buy it.
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<br> You are the one and so was I that, started changing ideas on target size and styles to suit us both. Now go back and read what was said to start with.
<br>The poster said ; SAME GUN AT BOTH RANGES AND SAME TARGET SIZE. I believe I responded to that one yesterday to the original poster. He also stated he was sorry he brought it up. Could YOU or I have understood that differently?
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<br>So since you continue to downplay me with your big ALLIGATOR MOUTH, I will respond in kind and simply say, your not only a joke but, a clown to with your replies to us.
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<br>I see now why the folks in Colorado don't have much use for some of the Texans like yourself. It's true what they say and I never believed it could be, until now.
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<br>Some of us may not have the money you do but, that's no excuse to flaunt yours and that's what people are seeing.
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<br>I apoligize to everyone else on this Longrange forum (Not to If) because I don't respond to people this way, normally. I wasen't going to respond to him at all but, he keeps it going and I think you all see that.
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<br>He does sound like Bill T Ric. I wonder if he has a 30/378?
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<br>Darryl Cassel
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<br>As an add on here---If you want to continue this off the forum (instead of embarrassing both of us) or off line, my email is Dcassel@aol.com and the phone number at this house is 814-546-2674

IFID,
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<br>One hand to run a ranch and you say your age brings you wisdom.. huh...
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<br>Let me say this about seasoning. without going into detail in my 35 years I have seen and done more than most. Don't get me wrong I am not bragging alot of it I wish I was never part of. The line of work I was in afforded me to know and observe things most people never will. So as far as seasoning before you discredit me as unseasoned in life and other view points. Lets just say I was hired to mimic, blend, infiltrate other peoples lives and ways of life. My friend I do know people, I know people all to well at times.. I know you and your type...
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<br>Thats all I'll say about that... don't bark up a tree you can't see the top of.
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<br>and by the way I will enjoy ALL that land. I'll enjoy it everywaking moment I can.... matter of fact, I'll invite alot of my friends to enjoy it for free.. you I'd charge for the aggravation...I'm sure I'd have to clean up after your mess...
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<br>I wish I could give you a phone number like DC did.