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Well done test.
Two questions I would have are, one, how temperature sensitive is 2000MR ? And, two, which shows the least deviation ?
TAC, BTW, is getting my attention as being very interesting. It doesn't work nearly as well in Federal cases. E E, here's the temp-sensitivity comment from a gent that helped develop the powder... he posts under the name "1smalljohnson" (thumbs-up for a sense of humor)...
"Honestly, it's not quite as good as Varget, but it's much better than any other BALL POWDER(r) Propellant out there in the canister market. It's one of the first "High Energy" designs out in canister, and all of those high energy designs exhibit very good temperature sensitivity."Here's the thread... it's a good read: http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1888863&page=1I've had a can since last fall but have only run one round of each bullet weight in my 308 just to see speeds... all in the 22" Kimber MT: 150 NBT / Fed 210M / WW Brass / 52.0 2000 MR / 2,918 fps 168 NBT / Fed 210M / WW Brass / 50.0 2000 MR / 2,794 fps 180 NP / Fed 210M / WW Brass / 48.0 2000 MR / 2,704 fps
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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logger, thanks for sharing your thorough test... good stuff! Hope you find time to run some 165/168's 
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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SAUMHunter:
I consider the listed loads to be the max for my rifle. The highest pressure factory load was about 59,000. So when I was working up loads, any time I got to 57,000 - 60,000 I stopped and considered that to be the max load for that powder. Depending on the powder, there is easily 1,000 - 2,000 psi variation on a normal shot to shot basis, even with every thing being held as constant as possible. Thank you sir.
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Kraky:
I noted the same on Quickload and it is one of the reasons that I have enjoyed working with the Oehler 43. I don't have my quickload with me right now (I'm traveling) but a once fired piece of 308 Win brass in my rifle has a water capacity of 57.20 grains measured to the mouth. The OAL length of the cartridge was right around 2.910". OK---quickload stat's has it thinking the average 308 holds 56.0 grains water. You have more capacity and are hanging the bullet out more than the 2.800" standard oal. When I make those adjustments quickload now predicts EXTREMELY CLOSE TO YOUR RESULTS. Just spot checking 3-4 powders now has it so close to your results it's pretty amazing. Re the newest versions I went to their website and they did an update 06/11. Owners of ql can upgrade for $14.95 +s&H. I'm not sure if they have the newest powders....at least I'd be surprised if they had mr2000 in the library but you could contact them. Here is a link to make it fast if you do. http://www.neconos.com/
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BTW---regarding this data AS USUAL this is for his gun and his brass and the way he has it set up. Anyone using lesser capacity brass and a tighter chamber could see an increase of about 9000 psi pressure and higher velocity. DON'T WANT TO SOUND LIKE AN OLD LADY HERE CAUSE WE ALL SUPPOSEDLY UNDERSTAND THIS but 308 brass and chamber really really seem to vary alot.
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Brad:
Re: the 165/168 test. Well I thought I did that. On late Tuesday I determined that I had accomplished what I wanted to accomplish with the 150s so I thought I would just run a few single 168s with 4 different powders to just get a sense of how those powders would work. I worked up through about three series of increasing charges and was really encouraged. Later that evening I sat down and to find out see where I was at with the 168s and things started to look kind of fishy - it appeared that I has getting about 2925 with 168 TTSX and 53 grains of 2000 MR. I looked and found that I was actually retesting 150 gr. not 168 gr bullets. At least it confirmed my earlier results, but it was definitely time to quit.
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Thanks logger, great information.
It seems to quantify my suspicions that QL corelates pressure to velocity with more accuracy than powder charge to velocity.
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FWIW and for those who are considering quick load I set up a querry asking it to pick powders and give results at approx 58K pressure using the longer seating length of 2.910 and the roomier win brass. Here is what it came up with and the results (I think) are pretty darn consistant with what happened. Remember you have to consider that powder lots can and do vary. You can pick the powders he used out of the chart. Cartridge : .308 Win.
Bullet : .308, 150, Nosler BalTip 30150
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.910 inch or 73.91 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch or 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 58000 psi, or 399 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
63 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 75%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 104.5 50.8 3.29 2907 97.5 58000 10759 1.020 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 106.4 50.9 3.30 2907 98.0 58000 10634 1.027 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 106.6 51.0 3.30 2905 98.0 58000 10621 1.027 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 108.0 52.9 3.43 2903 93.5 58000 11001 1.026 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 3031 103.7 44.9 2.91 2891 100.0 58000 9425 1.036 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 104.3 46.8 3.03 2891 99.3 58000 9996 1.020 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 110.0 52.1 3.38 2891 96.3 56326 10955 1.044 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 95.4 47.6 3.08 2888 99.6 58000 9982 1.033 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 97.9 49.5 3.21 2887 99.0 58000 10332 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 105.9 49.6 3.22 2885 98.9 58000 10333 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203B 103.9 48.2 3.12 2882 98.2 58000 10324 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 105.0 51.8 3.36 2879 93.5 58000 10784 1.038 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 103.4 47.9 3.10 2879 97.7 58000 10330 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 103.4 47.9 3.10 2879 97.7 58000 10330 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 103.4 47.9 3.10 2879 97.7 58000 10330 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 108.3 49.6 3.22 2877 98.7 58000 10220 1.048 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2520 100.5 48.0 3.11 2867 99.8 58000 9751 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 107.9 48.9 3.17 2865 98.5 58000 10147 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2495 103.6 45.4 2.94 2862 100.0 58000 9307 1.072 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 105.1 47.9 3.11 2859 97.9 58000 9945 1.028 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 104.6 49.5 3.21 2858 96.2 58000 10318 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 106.0 47.5 3.08 2852 99.7 58000 9596 1.032 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 100.4 48.1 3.12 2852 98.1 58000 10002 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 96.8 46.8 3.03 2850 99.1 58000 9797 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 94.2 46.7 3.03 2850 99.1 58000 9778 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 95.0 47.4 3.07 2849 99.2 58000 9850 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4064 110.0 47.7 3.09 2846 100.0 55928 9741 1.085 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 100.5 49.6 3.22 2846 96.1 58000 10159 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-S0621 104.3 47.0 3.05 2844 99.1 58000 9742 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H335 90.6 45.8 2.97 2843 100.0 58000 9409 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N540 102.8 48.1 3.12 2843 100.0 58000 9617 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 202 100.5 45.8 2.97 2842 100.0 58000 9400 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 95.8 44.7 2.89 2840 99.1 58000 9605 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 10 90.1 44.6 2.89 2839 100.0 58000 9333 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 508 90.1 44.7 2.90 2838 100.0 58000 9322 1.045 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2219 90.2 43.2 2.80 2837 100.0 58000 9036 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H322 95.9 43.2 2.80 2837 100.0 58000 9036 1.039 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 98.7 49.2 3.19 2836 98.0 58000 9776 1.040 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan Sp 7 92.8 46.1 2.99 2834 99.6 58000 9502 1.060 ! Near Maximum !
Nitrochemie A/S 0300 87.4 41.6 2.69 2832 100.0 58000 8667 1.046 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 105.1 47.3 3.06 2831 97.4 58000 9822 1.038 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 105.4 47.3 3.06 2831 97.4 58000 9822 1.038 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex-D0832 95.0 46.4 3.01 2830 100.0 58000 8905 1.041 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 201 96.6 45.8 2.96 2830 99.1 58000 9631 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot X-Terminator 88.3 43.8 2.84 2827 100.0 58000 9077 1.047 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N135 109.9 46.2 2.99 2826 100.0 58000 8828 1.049 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4064 106.3 46.5 3.01 2826 97.7 58000 9660 1.042 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 2460 93.8 46.7 3.02 2823 99.6 58000 9409 1.061 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R902 102.8 46.0 2.98 2821 99.1 58000 9514 1.058 ! Near Maximum !
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Kraky:
Just a note on the Big Game powder. When I thought I was doing my 168 gr bullet test, I did try Big Game as it was noted as one of the better powders for that weight of bullet in Nosler #6. As I mentioned above, I was actually using 150 gr TTSXs , but the results for Big Game and the 150 gr. bullets were:
52.5 grains of Big Game gave 2793 fps at 46,700 psi. I quit at that level as 52.5 grains was giving me a pretty full case and the other powders I was testing (AA2520 and 2000 MR) were doing much better.
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Great Informational Post!!!! Thanks Everyone,
BD
Men ocassionaly stumble over the truth from time to time but, most pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing happened.
- Winston Churchill-
NRA Endowment Life Member
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Logger....wow I'd have to say that QL looks out of touch on big game but my version of quickload is probably at least 1-1.5 yrs old. At the time big game might have been one of the newer powders out there. (maybe and then again maybe not). It would be interesting to see if the newer version of QL has it better figured out. And powder lots can vary by 5%.
I can also say the QL sometimes is off the mark on some of the Alliant RE powders.....especially some of my lots of re19 which seem really mild even in relation to alliants own data. At least with the big game you came up quite a bit milder than what ql thought and it wouldn't have gotten anyone into trouble. I'm guessing your results were quite a bit milder than that data at nosler too?
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Logger, just back from the range. Loaded 168 NBT's over 50.0 2000-MR (WW Brass / Fed 210M)... 2,796 fps. That's 63 fps faster than my usual 46.5 gr. Varget load.
Extraction was fine!
Have some 165 NAB's on hand I'll be trying next.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Thats a performance that would be on par with alot of factory 30-06 165 loads.
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Brad:
Thanks for the info. I'm going to try four different powders with the 165 Nosler BT - Big Game, AA2520, Varget and 2000 MR. I'm starting the 2000 MR at 48 gr. Based on Kraky's Quick Load info, I'm also going to try RL 17 with the 150 BT.
Logger
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Logger...I think you're gonna find the re17 data quickload came up with to be a bit anemic but I'll let you test in your gun. I can say that quickload has "nailed" re17 in several other guns and cartridges for me but missed the boat on re17 in my 308. Manufacturers are saying alot of these new high energy powders work differently in different case configurations and I am finding that. Quickload nailed my lots of re17 with the 30-06 and 200 accubonds and also a freinds 300 wsm.
My example for what happend with re17 is my 308 rem vtr. 20" barrel but alot of factory freebore....probably another .050" more than your gun has. Virgin nosler brass with the 168 nosler j bullet. 49 grains re17 did just 2600 with that combo. It's hard to say how much freebore changed things but that was pretty anemic for what I thought would happen. Again...interested to see what happens in your gun but my "guesstimate" is it will not match that prediction. BTW...I played a bit with quickload and big game vrs what ramshot said for loads and pressures. Quickload was very close to what they said....but it was surprising to see how mild big game came out in your gun. It's always a "guessing game" when reloading.
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Logger, just back from the range. Loaded 168 NBT's over 50.0 2000-MR (WW Brass / Fed 210M)... 2,796 fps. That's 63 fps faster than my usual 46.5 gr. Varget load.
Extraction was fine!
Have some 165 NAB's on hand I'll be trying next. Brad, Logger, These results are right in line with what I am getting with 165 gr Nos Partitions and 50 gr 2000MR. Right at 2830 fps avg with a 23" barrel. As far as accuracy, it is good, but it doesn't seem to be quite as accurate as Varget in my gun. Easily a 50+ fps gain in velocity. You can definitely better most 30-06 factory loads with this powder in 308 win. bludog
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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Campfire 'Bwana
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bludog, some guys say 2000MR is beating Varget in their rifles, others say Varget is still more accurate. Obviously barrels are individuals.
I've got a pile of 165 NAB's loaded over 50 gr's of 2000MR... this bullet has never been particularly accurate in my 308 so it'll be interesting to see what 2000MR will do with it. Obviously not the best way to accuracy test, but I plan on using them for hunting this year so I'll try them first.
“Perfection is Achieved Not When There Is Nothing More to Add, But When There Is Nothing Left to Take Away” Antoine de Saint-Exupery
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Brad,
There is not a big accuracy difference - not enough to matter in a hunting situation - at least for me. The above load is still just over an inch. With Varget (46.5 gr) I lose about 100 fps and get just under an inch. In this case, I kinda like the extra 100 fps.
Let me know how those 165 AB's work for you. I've had good luck with the 140 AB on deer.
bludog
"Blessed is the man whose wife is his best friend - especially if she likes to HUNT!"
"Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these."
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I did a bit more shooting this morning.
53 gr. of 2000 MR, Barnes 150 TTSX, .050 off lands
averaged 2973 fps at 59,900 psi
Kraky, you are correct on the RL 17, I gave up at 51 grs.
at 2784 fps and 54,000 psi (w/the 150 Nosler BT)
Moving on to the 168 Barnes TTSX .050 off lands:
Big game - To much compression for me (even using a 2'
drop tube) at 51.5 gr.
Varget 44 grs, 2648 fps at 58,800
AA2520 45.5 gr, 2694 at 58,500
2000 MR 49 gr, 2751 fps at 59,600
I also tried Brad's 165 gr Accubond load of 50 gr of
2000 MR (seated .030 off lands)
It gave 2785 fps at 57,600 psi
Again, these loads are for more rifle only. I shot another
165 Superperformance load to confirm pressure and it was consistent at 58,600 psi.
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