Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Not real happy with Barnes TMZ and Blackhorn 209, YET!

Been to the range twice now to work up loads for my Knight Disc Extreme. Trying to get Barnes 290 gr. TMZ to shoot with Blackhorn 209. Shot 80, 90, 100, 110, and 120 grains so far. Did more testing with 110 and 120 grains today. Got an average of 1859 fps with 110 gr. and 1962.4 fps with 120 grains. 110 gr. is 103 fps slower than 120 gr. Not really grouping like I want it to. Had to touching same hole at 50 yards with 120 gr., then the next three shots shot a 2" group two inches higher than two touching. Nothing loose on gun. Shot last 120 gr. load at 100 yards after making scope adjustment. It hit 2 1/2" high. Then shot two shots at 100 yards of 110 gr. w/o touching scope and they hit 3" low.
My old stand by load of 220 gr. barnes redhots with 150 gr. of pellets shot lights out. Running low on these bullets and they DON't make them anymore. That's why I thought I'd try to come up with a new load. So far not satisfied. Was thinking on trying 250 gr. TMZ. The 290 gr. has better BC by far than the 250 gr. That's why I went with the 290 gr.

I wouldn't hesitate to use the 250 TMZ. The stated BC was wrong for me on paper. I had a much better trajectory than the stated BC computed.

We're thinking the same. My plan is to try the 250 gr. TMZ. I love the Blackhorn 209. It burns so clean. And I really like Barnes bullets too. I'll try the 250 gr. TMZ and see what that does. I may try pyrodex pellets with the 290 gr. and the 250 gr. TMZ's too just to see what that does. My pet load was the 220 gr. Barnes Redhot HP, but they don't make it anymore. DANG. I'd stay with that bullet forever if they still made it. Wish I could find some somewhere on a dusty old shelf someplace. I have 15 Redhots left. If worst comes to worst, I'll resight in with the Redhots with as few of shots as possible, then continue to use them til I'm out. Then I'll search for a new load that I can be satisfied with. The 220 gr. Redhots are time tested and proven.

Don't overlook the sabots themselves they may all look similar but they aren't.We just finished a bunch of load testing with my son's Pro Hunter and I couldn't believe how much difference the groups were when only changing the sabots.Try the Harvester brand with your present bullet it may make a difference..did for us.

That's a thought. I've heard the Harvester sabots are good. You'd think the sabots that come with the TMZ would be good too. I may try the Harvesters. Thanks..

Try the yellow Harvester crushed rib sabots for BT bullets. Tightened my groups up plus they loaded easier then the supplied MMP yellow sabots.

If you do order the 250's get the T-EZ's. They are flat based bullets and are not as finicky as the boat tail T-MZ's. If the supplied blue MMP sabots do not shoot well pair them up with a black Harvester smooth sabot for under 300gr bullets.

Another option is the Barnes 300gr .458 Socoms. They come in 50 packs for around $45. Just try them with black and yellow crushed rib sabots and see which sabot gives better accuracy. Good luck.

Thanks for the info. So the yellow sabot that comes with the TMZ packs isn't a yellow Harvester sabot??? Is it the sabot with the T-EZ what makes them load better? The TMZ is a boattail which I like. It has a litle better BC than the flat base. Thanks again.

2" higher could most likely be barrel heat. I give at least 10 minutes in between shots just so the barrel gets cool to the touch.

I did some experimenting a few days ago with ramrod seating pressure and if i do my normal routine by using just my thumbs to seat the bullet "powerbelt" my rifle shoots dead on like it should at 100 yards. Now if i put my palm over the end of the rod and lean my upper body weight into it, the seating pressure change causes me to impact 2" low at 100 yards.

Aren't muzzleloaders fun? Like a woman, they have a mind of their own.

It crossed my mind that the seating pressure on the ramrod was different from shot to shot. Sometimes it seemed to go down nice and firm on the powder, then other times it seemed softer. I was thinking that may cause some differences in the shooting. I did notice that with the use of Blackhorn 209, the barrel does seem to heat up more. May be just my imagination, but I've never noticed that much heat with pyrodex pellets or black powder. I'm going to tinker with it some more to see what I can get. Really would like to make that combination of 290 gr. TMZ bullet and Blackhorn 209 work for me. If so, great, if not. back to the drawing board. That's part of the fun, like you said. Like eating peanuts, you just can't stop, once you start. Tons of fun.

Hunter01,

Thought about your disappointment with the TMZ's after I posted this on Hunting Net. Here is a 50yd group from a few weeks ago and a 100yd group from today.

IT's a copy and paste from what I just posted over there.
A few weeks back I took my Pro Hunter w/.50 Encore Bergara barrel to the range to get the replacement Bushnell DOA 250 ready for 100yd shooting.

This is the group at 50yds a few weeks back.

Barnes 250gr TMZ in a Harvester CR sabot. 105gr by volume BH209


Today I hit the 100yd range. Shooting done with a Bulls bag front rest and Caldwell rear rest. Barrel running HOT!!

72gr by weight BH209
Barnes 250TMZ Yellow Harvester CR sabot
CCI209M primer


TC Pro Hunter w/.50 Encore Bergara barrel


I think she's dialed in for the first day of Maryland's early muzzleloader season

Good shooting. That's the way muzzle loaders are supposed to shoot. I just came in the door from getting off my motorcycle. Put 51 miles on it looking for Harvester sabots. No luck yet. I did get some TMZ 250 gr. Wow, 28 bucks and change for only 15 of them. But if/when I get them to shoot, then I won't be shooting many of them. Just got to find the 'recipe'. I won't shot anymore of the 290's or any 250's until I get the yellow Harvester sabots. To expensive. Like shooting gold bullets. Sure hope I can get it to shoot the Barnes TMZ's with Blackhorn 209. We'll see. Been thinking about trying 250 gr. Shockwaves next if I can't get the Barnes to shoot. I just need to find the right combination of what it likes in the way of bullet and powder.
Also, I noticed you said you were shooting 105 grains (volume). Did you do a lot of testing with different powder charges???

Thanks for the info.
Hunter01

I could have saved you some gas money. The only place I have found the yellow Harvester CR sabots is through Harvester.
http://www.harvestermuzzleloading.c...t&Itemid=3&vmcchk=1&Itemid=3

Order some 260gr Scorpion PT's with black CR sabots to offset their shipping.

When you need more Barnes T-MZ's go to Grafs. Orders over $25 ship for $4.95. This is the 24 pack.
http://www.grafs.com/retail/catalog/product/productId/552

I stumbled across that load last year with them. 100-110gr Blackhorn 209 should do well for you.

Have you ever heard of bullets made by Precison Rifle Muzzle loading bullet??? A buddy shoots them and says they are great. Just wondering if anyone has ever used them....

Boat tail bullets in muzzleloaders are nothing but headaches. The T-EZ Flat Base 250 and 290s are far easier to work with.

As pre-packaged bullets, they come with MMP HPH-24 sabots. Ideally, you want a .003 - .004 in. interference fit for best accuracy. They are available from Barnes in 75 pc. bulk packs, bullets only, so then you can pick the sabot that best fits your individual rifle's bore. HPH-12's are stronger, and the best choice for many Green Mountain and Savage barrels. If you have a "tight-barreled Thompson" (several examples here have been .497 - .499 in. land to land) the HPH-24 is likely going to be the choice.