Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Alaskan River Craft

Not personality at all... They do two things to marginalize their value as an information source: First, they do not allow any negative comments about any products. If you can only say how wonderful something is it does not give true information. Second, they do not allow posters to question any aspect of another poster's background.

As proof they have a paid moderator that says ridiculous things, erases corrections, deletes posts, lies about his credentials, and has the dipschit sheep calling him "Professor".

To be specific he used to have "Ballisitics Engineer" as his title but has since changed it to "Technician" and was claiming at the time to work for a "major ammunition manufacturer" somewhere in the Ozarks... And while claiming he has a Masters in Pysics he claimed there is a force that moves salt around inside a room... And said the beach and shore was proof of that... Yup, a serious tool.

The poster of the year for 2010, Vince, is even more "Special" in that he claims he shoots moose in different places in the body to make them go to different places to die... Really... And then spent considerable numbers of electrons supporting his position... And he has lots of other "talents" afield...

And in the spirirt of total openness they did indeed decide they did not want my posts there... Which is fine, choosing to remain utterly clueless should be their choice...

Thanx endgameAK. That's informative. Nearly 5 ft at midships almost takes it out of the canoe category. No wonder they call 'em freight haulers.

Your stuff is way cool.

Reloder28 ...

This is definitely a canoe, although not a paddling, portage recreational canoe. The hull shape is canoe, point bow, wide in the middle, tapering to the stern.

The original big freighter canoes were the 'Montreal canoes' that the voyagers hauled tons of furs with in the 17th and 18th centuries, particularly on the Great Lakes. They were powered by the grunt labor of many paddles.

In the early 20th century, outboard technology was applied to big canoes such as the famous Grand Lakers of Maine. Chestnut was one of the legendary makers of square stern, cedar and canvas freighters. After WW2, aircraft building tech came to canoes, particularly Grumman, to employ their expertise of riveted aluminum. No aluminum canoe maker will offer canoes like the Hudson Bay. Some of us tried to talk them into such a model. That leaves the more modern composites for the task. And many of us feel the 19' Grumman and the 17' Osagian are a bit small to be termed a freighter

All these boats, are canoes of a predictable shape ... displacement boats. With a hydro-dynamic shape that economically travels thru the water. They don't depend on getting on plane - on top of the water thru use of large power plants.

As big as the HB is, it weighs only 250#.

No one boat is perfect for every use or condition. I think the good big freighters are skookum for backcountry use. Particularly with a proven surface-drive motor.

These are my opinions. Others may differ.

May I ask what kind of speed you are getting out of your rig with that motor? 116 miles and 9 gallons of gas , I'd say ya done good.

wildone ...

Haven't clocked HB/MB, in various modes with GPS yet. My average cruising speed after break-in was 17mph, at approx. 2/3 throttle. I need to get the setting of trim down, and then I have a larger prop to try ... should bring more low end power and maybe a bit faster cruising. I'm not really into pushing towards higher performance. Reliability and efficiency are my interest. I'll get some kind of speed notes next Spring. Top speed now is 20+.

Just like you get from one end of a C-130 full of pallets and combat-rigged paratroopers, you crawl over the schit.

Really though, living in a canoe requires a different mindset, it ain't no walleye boat. When you get in your end of that sucker you get the kit you'll need stowed where you can reach it. You ever tried swapping ends in a canoe floating down the river?

No sir, but I sure understand the pallet climbing part of the analogy. I have been in a canoe once in my life though I have been a boater all my life of 53 years. I was invited on a duck hunt and did not realize until I showed up that we were crossing the Houston Ship Channel (1 mile wide) in a canoe loaded with duck hunting equipment. Very uneasy, but not a whiner, I cowboyed up and once underway I was totally amazed at how stable the hull was with two big fat boys in it.

I considered it a wonderfully cheap, easy, lightweight & purely functional boat. I do much prefer a good flat bottom jon boat though.

I just can't wrap my head around why you would rather be in a canoe type boat rather than a seemingly more stable wider flat bottom boat. That's my limited Texan exposure. I've been in muddy muck that only a Go-Devil would traverse. I stuck my Carolina Skiff in the muck and had to push it out or wait for high tide. I can't comprehend how a canoe would have been better except that it was lighter.

Is that the factor, weight? Of course, I was fishing and not transporting bulk items from point A to point B. Still yet, one can get alot of stuff ina wide flat bottom boat. I even hauled my Honda Rancher in it once when we hunted an island.

Because it isn't more stable, it only appears to be. A jonboat has high "initial" stability. It stays upright quite well as long as it floats on placid water. When the seas start to pitch, that goes out the window. Look at bass boats from your neck-of-the woods, they have nearly flat bottoms. Look at Walleye boats that guys go out into Lake Michigan in, they have V-shaped hulls, starting to look more like a canoe. Remember, they figured out how to make those big Canadian canoes a couple of centuries ago, for a reason, they work.

The beauty of the Scott is they are a rough water boat, and do well in skinny water. they use them in the Great Slave lakes in Canada and are quite capable of rough water. I used mine on Skilak and Tustemna lake here in AK. Prefer a canopy and bigger boat for fishing. My 20' Koffler Bay Bee 8' wide will not carry the payload of the 21' Scott Hudson bay I sold!

According to Pat Underhill of Scott Canoe, the Hudson Bay model was developed for and with the assistance of the Cree indians of Northern Quebec and Ontario whose northern most territory is around Hudson Bay.

These canoes handle big water well. One guy I've talked to uses his for fishing Silver Salmon out of Valdez in Prince William Sound. Another has, on occasion, and on the right days, done the same for my favorite fish - halibut. One friend, Budman5, dipnets for Red Salmon from his HB in Chitna Canyon on the Copper River, the most intimidating piece of river I've ever been on, so far.

Scott also has even larger canoes, such as the James Bay model, which is heavily used on the Arctic Oceans of northern Canada. The JB is 22'8", weighs 450# and has a load capacity of 3590#. That boat is for big loads on big water. And it works. It's width at the gunwales is 66". Not a boat designed for skinny water. Scott recommends a 40 horse motor for the JB.

This is not a Scott ad, just a reporting of the experience some of us have had with these very capable freighter canoes. They're not for everyone, but they may be the ultimate bush utilitarian boat. Now, with a proven surface-drive motor, their abilities are greatly extended.

This is all so very interesting. Thank you all for the information.

"I just can't wrap my head around why you would rather be in a canoe type boat rather than a seemingly more stable wider flat bottom boat...... I can't comprehend how a canoe would have been better except that it was lighter.

Because it isn't more stable, it only appears to be. A jonboat has high "initial" stability."

To put it another way - the more weight you put in a canoe, the more stable it gets for tippi-ness- doesn't mean it won't ship water over that 4 inches of free-board..... that's what that tucked-in tight tarp is for... If you take it to the extreme, it's called a kayak.

What additional modifications have you made to your Hudson Bay freighter or trailer? Spray rail extensions, mud buddy air intake heater, transom reinforcement, fiber glass or Kevlar on the bottom? Camo painting over the gelcoat etc.

I'm on my second Hudson Bay 21 and there's at least a half dozen here in Delta. A couple guys run Copperhead surface drives.
One runs a lift on his and I run conventional outboard as I don't run the Tanana River. If running moderate horsepower, you can run
a 15" outboard on a 20" transom. My 8hp 15" pushes my canoe at 11-12 mph. That short shaft keeps the prop off the bottom in most cases.

On your second HB... did you wear out the first?

Interesting topic. I spent many years running river traplines out of a 15' square stern Martin canoe with a 3 hp Evinrude on it I can get into a place with a full load of traps and camping gear, jump out and line it through some serious shallow water. For a number of years hunting west coast estuaries and rivers with it. Loaded with bags of decoys I could get a large set into places others couldn't go in their sleds. I can haul as much gear in my canoe as my big water jon. I'm planning week long trips coyotes hunting the shores of some large western impoundments this year, camping along the shore at night.. I've had this canoe since 1976, wouldn't be without one, even have a couple paddle canoes stashed around the country with friends. Back in northern MN and WI you can camp, trap, hunt, fish and rice out of them I've even lashed two together and hauled building materials to an island. I spent quite a few deer hunts canoeing rivers and spending the night sleeping under the tipped over canoe, makes a pretty decent shelter and you can launch just about anywhere, no ramp needed.

No I didn't wear it out but a buddy was moving to Eagle and needed one so I sold to him.
I then bought a new one and put it on a better trailer.

Fuel economy is a great advantage of the canoe hull. If you need to go fast, this isn't the type
of boat you need.

I saw a nice one with Mud Buddy in CraigsList this morning. I think it was in Fairbanks.

Kanoe People has two in inventory in Whitehorse at about $6K Can$. But ya can't get to Whitehorse at this time.

The James Bay model is not in production at this time.

In Scott's troubled times some of the canoes were made by chop gun. When Abitibi bought them out, they went back to
hand laid cloth.

My canoeing is traditional paddle power. Learned more than a few things reading your freighter canoe exploits. Stay safe Gents.

I owned a 21 ft Scott Hudson Bay liked it but much Prefer the Solar Inflatable Jet boat for South Central rocky fast waters.

My 470 Solar with a 50 HP 4 stroke burns 2.0 GPH at 21 MPH with a load capacity of 1980#, gets on step at 12 MPH with a load.

Was on Big Sue Saturday 18 to 20 MPH upstream, about half throttle, DS about 1/4 throttle 25 MPH. Runs in almost no water and
poly bottom slides over gravel and rocks. Plus in the winter roll it up and store it in the shed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RFCDQHvJcYA&t=12s

I’ve had mine for several years now with a mud buddy 23, refinishing all ash wood trim now. Talking to fella here in Delta, he says he put a bottom Slick coat Treatment on called Wetlander, I am thinking to try it. Also considering the Kevlar keel reinforcement, wondering how that’s working for folks?

And about that guy doing Chitna in a Hudson Bay... is he still alive? What size motor? He goes all the way down to Haley Creek?