Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns What you REALLY need from a personal protection handgun

Aww, c'mon, Kevin.............tell us how you really feel.

MM

As a former Paramedic, I've actually TREATED a good number of handgun wounds in my day, and if you think there's any meaningful difference on a person hit with a 9mm vs. a .40 or .45 then you'll just be disappointed.

The only thing that really matters is where you place your shot. Do that well and everything such as caliber and load are a non-issue.

total agreement subject to the bullet being used. If they don't work like they are suppose to i would default to the bigger caliber piece of lead

Ron, just curious, but how about the .380 compared to those others you mentioned? Or is it still mainly a shot-placement issue?

All things being equal, the amount and degree of vital tissue disruption is what determines stopping power. You cannot get around the fact that an expanded .45 caliber 230 grain bullet traveling at ACP velocities does that to a far greater amount and degree than an expanded .355 caliber 125 grain bullet traveling at Parabellum (let alone Kurz) velocities. The total "volume" of tissue disruption (think three dimensionally, now, along the bullet's path, describing a conical to cylindrically shaped area of disruption) is significantly more massive. Put in the right place, as between the two, the .45 is going to put a determined man down faster. It's just physics/biology. It's just simply not only about shot placement.

In my experience as a former Paramedic, the 22 lr was responsible for most of the deaths I saw.

That's because when a more serious caliber is used, it's the coroner they call, not the paramedics.

Do you even read before you pontificate, or is your brain suffering from "vital tissue disruption"?

I take it you feel the .22 long rifle is a serious man stopper, then?

I didn't take that away from his post. I read it simply as his stating his experience in what he observed. The .22 is so "common" that it doesn't really surprise me. Going through my memory banks, I would say that I've handled a larger percentage of suicides using a .22 than anything else (again, I'm thinking common and easy). None of the "suicides gone wrong" have ever been a .22....that damn flinch thing .

George

Numbers of deaths don't equate to stopping power. Ubiquity of the round alone, as you suggest, is the likely explanation for his observation.

if it were only that simple, then yes, you would be correct. There are many factors which play into the effectiveness of a gunshot wound that one isolated element. One can argue that the physical size of the tissue disruption, i.e., caliber, can be somewhat offset by the violence of that disruption, i.e., velocity. If all bullets traveled at the same speed, then yes, the larger one would win, but that simply is not so. Temporary wound cavity and hydrostatic shock due to the afore mentioned violence of impact is a very real element to the equation.

The perfect defensive round would be one that would combine size with speed, but no one seems to have conquered that algorithm as of yet. Given that fact, one must weigh various advantages against their disadvantage, and choose that which they feel is the best balance. For some, it is the .45, for others, the 9mm. To state either is right or wrong is ridiculous. As Mr. Gibson stated above, if you think any of the major defensive rounds produce results that differ enough to warrant debate, then you are either mistaken, or refuse to see truth based on personal bias.

When I say "amount" think "volume of disruption." When I say "degree" think "violence (to use your word) of the disruption," which would encompass, for example, the concepts of "hydrostatic shock" and "temporary wound cavity." The latest thinking, however, as I recall it from when I used to study this stuff, is that temporary would cavity and hydrostatic shock have far less effect on stopping power than first hypothesized, permanent wound cavity being the more telling characteristic.

My mistake. With clarification, I see the point you were intending to make. My apologies. I do not agree with your assertion, and neither do the leading experts in the field. That being said, I dont find any fault in your choice of defensive calibers, the .45 is a great one. I simply dont think its any better then the others.

Not a problem.

I worked in Critical Care for over 30 years and i have seen a number of gunshot wounds. The most effective and DOA where with the 38 SPL and from a 4 inch Smith the Va State Police carried and the Winchester 158 Lead SWC or FBI Load . The trauma from this load has to be seen to believe , worst than any 9mm or 45 ACP. That is one load you don't want to be shot with. Most death from shooting in this order were from the 25 Auto, 22 lr and 38 spl. The patients that survived being shot most often was from the 25 Auto and most shot with the 22 lr died later from internal bleeding. Most gunshot in my area were from the 25 Auto and i guess the reason is you could buy one for less than 50 bucks. As with all handgun round bullet placement played a bigger part than the cal or type of pistol used.

I've always had a lot of confidence in the FBI load from a three or four inch barrel, so this doesn't surprise me. I wonder what the wound would look like from one of Buffalo Bore's new .38 Special offerings, i.e., the full meplat, hard cast lead, 150 grain wadcutter, designed for snubbies. I'm betting it's brutal.

I would say you are right, it would be lethal without a dough

Well if you mean is it lethal, than yes. If you mean it fills the TKO formula for the charging Meth head, no. I am not allowed to state my personal observations from actual shootings? Here is a question, based on my experience, is the 270 Win lethal from contact distance?

Sure, placed over the heart. Placed over the palm, probably not.

Hey, Raisuli,
There are people with defense needs other than cops. I suggest you re-read my original post. It rebuts your statement concerning the so-called superiority of department issued weaponry.