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My 1913 vintage 1894.



My kid, Jeff Davis, with the same gun.

Great pics, Cole. Little feller seems proud enough. I'm guessing he has laid claim to that rifle. One of these days, I'd like to own, and mess around with a .25-35, but they are just too rich for my blood these days. maybe I'll be independently wealthy soon.

Had one that I looked at for quite a while of that vintage. Not in nearly as nice a shape as yours for about $600. I finally decided that the sights and general condition were just not worth it. I wanted a casual kind of catchall trail rifle and it just didn't fill the bill. But the round has always fascinated me.
Yours looks very good. I understand that Hornady's 117 gr. RN bullet is very popular with .25-35 users. There is some very good, pratical loading data availiable for it as well. E

Nice carbine!

I've got an 1894 .25-35 rifle made in 1898, with octagon barrel, in about the same sort of shape. The bore is a little pitted but it still shoots into 2" or so at 100 yards.

I have a custom Martini Cadet in .25-35 that also shoots very well. A nice caliber for iron sight ranges and medium game. Has a little more flexibility in a single shot because you can pick from a lot of different bullets and load it a tad warmer. But only a tad in a Cadet. I'd love to try it in a Hiwall sometime.

Want a 25/35 in the worse way. Had on in a Savage 1899 but I was stupid.

Good looking lad.

Mesa,

I have a buddy who (like me) really likes German rifles. He has a nifty kipplauf (break-action single-shot) in .25-35, called the 6,5x52R over there. He loads it with the 115 Ballistic Tip to about 2600 fps and has killed a lot of game with it out to 200 yards, both in North America and Africa.

The .25-35/6,5x52R used to be chambered in quite a few single-shots and drillings. I have an old Sauer hammer drilling imported to America by Charles Daly that's 12x12/.30-30, but understand some were made in .25-35, both in hammer and hammerless models. Would love to find one of those!

Thanks y'all. I actually toted it to a gunshow last weekend in an attempt to upgrade, but it was better than the three I saw-and I've got less in it than I could have bought any of them for.

A few years back I had one that was better than this. Stupidly, I let it get away from me. This one is pretty straight with fairly crisp lettering. The rear sight is a King's though.

Beautiful rifle Cole, got a Bud w/ a '94 in 25-35 w/ a octagon barrel, I screwed up and complimented it to much, if I do ever get to buy it, its gonna be high

Gunner

I went hunting this past weekend with my 25-35. Mine is one of the new ones they made five or six years ago, and it was my first deer rifle. I already got a buck in Wyoming, so I was trying to fill a doe tag. It was a weird weekend as I was able to get within 150 yards of every group of does we saw, but all of the does on public land had fawns and all of the dry does we found were on private land where we couldn't hunt. A beautiful weekend, though, and I love hunting with that rifle. It just feels right in the sagebrush.

Coincidentally I just noticed that the newest MidwayUSA flier has S&B 6.5x52R/.25-35 ammo on sale (their item #882-351). Any good?

John, I've always wanted a German or Austrian break-action single shot "stalking rifle" (actually I think that may be the Brit term for them) but never was in the right place with the right $$. A friend has a no-name Ferlach rifle that is just right, although chambered for 8x48R, an odd little cartridge. He still manages to shoot it regularly and well. (At least part of it was actually made by J.P. Sauer).

I'd always wanted a 25-35 and stupidly passed on a Winchester in 95%+ condition a few years ago. It was sitting at a gunshop where the owner turned his inventory fast and nothing was overpriced. Still can't understand why I hesitated.

I recently found one in similar condition to ColeYounger's. My FFL buddy and I have done so many trades I really don't know what I've paid for it and never will know. Should be a fun little rifle.

My old Bud says a charge of RL-15 and the 117 Hornady round nose bullets are indeed pure sweetness.

Gunner

My old Bud says a charge of RL-15 and the 117 Hornady round nose bullets are indeed pure sweetness.
Gunner [/quote]

I agree, I am loading for a new rifle, a Model 94AE. 27.0 grains of Alliant Reloder 15 gives me excellent accuracy and 2,350 fps.
I also like Alliant Reloder 10X - which I thought would prove fast for the cartridge but - 23.0 grains of Reloader 10X give me 2,360 fps with equal or better accuracy.
The Model 94 is not a 1� rifle but will often shoot 3 shots inside 1 �� at 100 yards from the bench. The little Model 94 with the low recoil 25-35 cartridge excells when shot from field positions.

For our little West Texas deer I prefer the 100-grain bullets and I feed the 100-grain JHP Speer bullet through the magazine without difficulty. My maximum loads using Alliant Reloder 10X touch 2,600 fps and this is a fine deer load.

10-Roger, thanks for the added info Slim, I gotta get an old octagon brl. 25-35 WCF, been thinkin' about one for 20 years now.

Gunner

You're a fortunate man.

I like those.

I still have a box of handloads around here somewhere.

I used my brother-in-laws mom's and my aunt's rifles for some of my early hunting. Auntie's SRC was sweet. Tang rear sight and it was a tack driver. One of her grandsons has it.

Well boys, that carbine went down the river. Another in better shape has taken its spot in the safe rotation. heheheh Pics to come.

I've had an itch for a 25-35 for about the last 30 years. And I think I'm getting ready to scratch it.

I have a Ruger #3 in 375 Win that I bought at a very good price about 6 years ago. Am thinking of having it re-barreled to 25-35.

It would not be a lever action rifle, but the falling block of the #3 goes back even farther. And I could use pointy bullets.

Depending on who you are talking to, being a rifle loony is either a virtue or a vice. Virtues are good, but vices have given me a lot of good memories.

So I think I will scratch.

Steve

I would barrel the No. 3 for 32 H&R Magnum with a .308� barrel!

The single shot 25-35 is a great varminter, Townsend Whelen, Paul Estey and W.F. Vickery all having written of the virtues of the slow twist 25-35. I would go with a 14� twist with 100-grain bullets and lighter as my primary bullets. Today�s longer bullets would stabilize and with a medium heavy contour you would still have a walk around rifle. With the current light weight 2-7X variables your No. 3 would be handy in the field. Alliant Reloder 10X and Reloder 15 will get you started. IMR 4320 is the benchmark in accuracy and the newer powders will still have to work hard to beat for accuracy and velocity.

Nice to read a bout a .25-35 in use...I had a Marlin 336 rebarreled to .25-35...When I first had it done I shot it quite a bit...now the fascination has cooled, but I still use it some each year...have shot p. dogs, coyotes, antelope, whitetails and mulies with it...a fun gun and at medium ranges very deadly...

I know the WSM guys all need big ballistics to kill stuff, but I have hunted with a 25-35 since I was a kid. To this day it is still one of my favorite go to guns. I have killed deer, antelope, rabbits, turkeys and even a 7 foot grizzly with one...

One of my �someday� guns will be a Marlin 336 with 24� barrel in 25-35 Tomcat similar to Francis Sell�s. I want a 14� twist as my critters are smaller than his.
I have a 20� 25-35 and a 24� 25-35AI, I figure the Tomcat will cover the �middle ground.�

As promised, here is the new one.





I don't know what it will do at 100 yards yet, but at pistol ranges, it will flat-out explode stuff.

Just like this...

That just looks sweet.... Nice rifle.
....SmokeRolls

Steve, I decided to answer your question on bullet length and twist rates here as others may have had similar and or different experiences we could both benefit from.
I personally feel the 14� twist will give fine accuracy with the newer and longer 87- and 100-grain .25 caliber bullets. I have shot the 100-grain Nosler BT in the 14� twist 250 Savage and it delivered some of this rifles best accuracy.
While there has been quite a bit of writing in pre-WWII magazines on the 25-35 as a varmint rifle it is lost to most of us. One of the more interesting articles is from the November 1939 issue of the American Rifleman, �The 25-35 Cartridge� by John Schnerring the former Frankfort Arsenal Superintendent of the Proof House. Schnerring had a Stevens 44 � and a Winchester Model 70 barreled for the 14� twist 25-35. He reported excellent accuracy for the bullets of his day out to 200 yards � the furthest distance he shot the rifle on paper. In 1939 he felt the most accurate .25 caliber bullet available was the 87-grain Western Open Point bullet.
I feel one of the best bullets available for the 25-35 single shot rifles is the 75-grain Sierra JHP. It is unusual for me to shoot at varmints beyond 200 yards and the 75-grain Sierra will deliver the goods for most of our windy days.
For deer I feel I get quicker kills on our little West Texas deer with the 100-grain Speer JHP than with the 117-grain Hornady round nose bullet. The Hornady bullet will open up on our deer even on lung shots but the smaller Speer bullet opens quicker and yet is strong enough to retain weight on a shoulder shot. The 100-grain Speer hollow point will punch a shoulder and cross the chest cavity with enough retained weight to create a an impressive exit wound.
The Speer bullet also has the advantage of reduced tendency to ricochete on hard ground. This bullet will wrrrr off into the distance on occasion but not like the longer round nose bullet.

As far as case capacity is concerned I measure the water capacity with a bullet seated .257� deep as, 42.8 grains of water for the 250 Savage, 33.9 grains of water for the 25-35 and 40.9 grains of water for the 25-35AI.
I have a 24� 25-35AI and � at the expense of higher pressure � it is a smoker. The 25-35AI delivers performance far beyond what you might imagine when loaded to those higher pressures. I have shot it beside two 250 Savage rifles � Remington Classics that are in my immediate family � and with the advantage of 2� extra barrel length I am able to easily exceed the performance of the 250 Savage with the shorter barrel.
There is no need to run the cartridge at these high pressures it is just an interesting aside that it is possible to do so.
For the single shot rifles I prefer the rimmed cartridges, it is just a personal preference. My personal thoughts are the standard 25-35 is where I would start and I believe the Ruger No. 3 will make a nice light weight walking varmineter. I wanted to suggest a straight 6X scope in my original post but thought better of it and suggested a 2-7X compact as they are generally short and light, with the added advantage of the low power for game on the move. It is exciting to shoot at rabbits on the move and coyotes called in close when they are smart and aware they are falling into a trap. This is shooting best served by a light rifle with its center of gravity a bit further forward to help it follow the moving critter, the low power scope giving you the advantage of shooting with both eyes open.
Those are some of my thoughts on the matter and with input from some who have more experience you may end up with a useful and interesting rifle.

William, interesting information...I have read a bit about the .25-35 on varmits, both in the older information in the Rifleman, and from Francis Sell...I load 75 grain Horn.Vmax for varmits, but load those single shot into my Marlin...Lately, I have done my biggame shooting with Hornady 117 RN..I had a couple 100 grain Serria sptizers fail badly on a nice buck antelope...oddly they killed well when fired out of a .25-06...May have just had a bad bullet...My little rifle is a fun gun..I enjoy it each fall...and some varmiting in the summer..it is fun to read about what riflemen were doing in the 20's and 30's...Davis tried the 25-35 and 25 Rem. on turkey in his quest for a perfect turkey rifle...I tried mine on gobblers..did a fair job...with a different bullet it would be excellent....

Interesting about the 100-grain Sierra troubles. Perhaps they were designed for a higher velocity. I�ll look them up to see what velocity range they were intended for. I shoot the bulk Remington 100-grain bullets single shot and they appear to open up for me at 25-35 veloccities. I admit I am shooting new rifles and I blast right through published load data intended for older rifles.
Good to see a mention of Davis in this thread, he has several articles in the pre-WWII American Rifleman with at least one giving the 25-35 a good mention.

I prefer the 25-20 for our turkey shooting.

F. C. Ness gives good mention of the 25-35 and the 25 Remington in the book, Practical Dope on the Big Bores. A good bit of discussion on the various twists.
There is quite a bit of discussion of the 25 Remington and the 25-35 in the late 1930�s Rifleman articles and in the Dope Bag.

I had intended to mention the 100-grain Speer JHP came my attention from Ken Waters wrting. Waters gave a good recommendation to the bullet for use in the 250 Savage. The little hollow point performs well in the 25-35 too.

William, I will have to try the 100 grain Speer HP. Shot some of them many years ago in a 25-06..Impressive..bet they would be great in my .25-35..But I have more bullets than I will probably shoot now..but my friends will enjoy them and hopefully think of the guy who bought them...It is nice to see someone who reads and has knowledge of our past shooters..those guys praticed experimenting under very difficult conditions...I never shot a gobbler with a 25=20...Had a beauty in a newer Marlin, but foolishly sold it to my pal..he won't part with it..It is also nice to know someone who takes turkey with a rifle...that takes skill...I have shot the last dozen birds with a shotgun...when at all possible, I will switch to my rifles again..but I guess we are not talking about turkey hunting here...keep up the good information...

I have to be honest, my wife brings em up close, and I just do the shooting. It is not difficult in Texas to bring turkey up within 50 yards, getting them closer is the tough part.
As you know there is nothing more exciting than to be 10 or 15 yards from a strutter, the stomping feet and the rattling wings will get your heart pumping.
In the square, Brady to Ozona, Big Spring to Sonora there are a number of women who can call turkeys as well or better than the men can. Locally, the Outdoorsman guides a few women from back East who know how it�s done and enjoy bringing them in close.

We have several 25-20�s but the Savage Model 23 is probably the most fun - and the hardest on brass.

The fun part of the books and magazines is there is NOTHING new, if you know where to look. It will work you pretty hard looking, even today. You know the movie quote, �For the Sunrise Student, there is Treasure among books.�
As a kid Francis Sell, Harry O. Dean, Ed Yard and Vernon Megee sure had an influence on me. They were small game hunters who were interested in the critters, the guns and the cartridges. Now that I am a �Hundred Aire� I would sure enjoy meeting Francis Sell in his old apple orchard and sharing a cup of tea while watching the deer.

William, that is certainly some interesting info. Thanks exceedingly for sharing it.

Thanks for sharing the pictures of the rifle and a proud young shooter. When I was a kid I carried a Model 94 deer hunting and there were days when I hoped I would not see a deer as that darn rifle seemed to kick harder than my Dads 308. 25-35 is a great start. You see rifles in better condition than we do.
You are fortunate to have children to pass the love of the outdoors, hunting and shooting to. Like a lot of folks when I am gone my �stuff� will scatter to the four winds or end up in a landfill.

William, I went to Oregon one trip just to visit with Francis Sell...as luck would have it, the time I was there was his birthday..so I did not try and arrange a meeting..I have made several trips to the area since that time...sad to say, he is rapidly being forgetten even by relatives...
On a brighter note, I just saw a Savage model 23 in .25-20..if I get back that way, I may take a close look at it..

Like you I have no children to pass my stuff on too when that time comes..but fortunately, I was in education for years and have lots of "kids" that love hunting and shooting as much as I do..plus two of my "kids" named their sons after me..so they will receive some of my stuff..the rest will be divided among those who I feel will appreciate them most..One young man is a pistol, shotgun, rifleman; while another cares only for rifles, but not custom ones...so I will have to think this through and assign each what I feel will be most suited to their likes...something to consider...

I am indeed blessed and don't thank God enough for what I have.

William,

Many thanks for sharing your wisdom, experience and time.Your information is invaluable and I will put it to good use.

I'm meeting with my gunsmith next week to get started on the project of converting my #3 375 Win to 25-35. When I talked to him, he said he thought the only problem that he would have was finding a 25-35 reamer in good shape that he could rent. My guess is that there is not a lot of call for them!

I share your respect and admiration of Francis Sell. I think he was one of a few gun and hunting writers who were far better than they were popular. Not saying he was not popular, but that his skill exceeded his popularity.

Again, thank you for your thoughts and experience.

Best regards,

Steve

Steve, my pal and I had .25-35's built on Marlin actions with in the last 10 years, maybe less....the gunsmith had no problem renting a reamer at that time...good luck, this is a fun caliber..

Steve

Glad to help you �scratch an itch.� Others on this board have shot bigger critters than me - appears to me Shrapnel could use a 2lb. Sledge in a cross draw holster as a backup�

WCH has posted on other boards about his rifle, he may post a link or two. Dr. A has hunted a bit with his Angle Eject Model 94 and has posted about it.

I had no trouble purchasing a new production 25-35AI reamer so someone is shooting these cartridges. I wish they would talk about it some.

I am looking for a new production 25 Remington reamer but it looks like I am going to strike out. I will probably have to have one custom made for my slow twist 25 Remington project.

Steve,
I thought I would answer your msg here as other may have different thoughts.
I bought my 25-35AI reamer from Midway as a stock item. This is a PTG reamer which reamed a good chamber for me. One of the flutes of the reamer did not cut as well as the others but this did not seem to affect the end result. I had shot this 24� barrel quite a bit but it is still a very accurate barrel.
I enjoy loading for and shooting the 25-35AI. The cartridge is similar to the 30-30AI in that the case does not appear to be fragile at all. Case life is excellent with the highest pressure loads. Eventually you will wear out a primer pocket � this is to say the pocket has less resistance when seating the primer. I use hand priming tools and I am able to feel the difference when seating the primer. All of my cases will accept 10+ high pressure loads. The majority of my cases will be loaded many more times.
The 30-30AI and the 25-35AI will both exhibit cases stretching when loaded to high pressure � I am describing loads above an estimated 50,000 CUP. If you start with new brass you will not have case life issues. Using brass previously loaded as 30-30 or standard 25-35 is acceptable for lower load levels but for high performance, use new cases. You will occasionally break a case at the pressure ring. I have broken one 25-35 AI case at the pressure ring and I have been shooting the cartridge regularly during summer for 5 years or so.
Now for the unpopular part � high pressure loading. There is little difference between the 25-35AI loaded to high pressure and the 250 Savage loaded with published load data. In my situation I had a barrel with extraction problems as a standard 25-35. Reaming the chamber to the Improved shape eliminated the problem. I have shot my 24� 25-35AI side by side with two Remington Classic rifles and the 24� barrel 25-35AI, loaded to higher pressure I�ll admit, will exceed 250 Savage velocities from the 22� barrel. This is not an apple to apples comparison but II believe it illustrates the potential of the 25-35AI cartridge. The rimmed cartridge case is easier for me to handle with the Thompson Center action, particularly in winter.

Now to real world stuff. Fired in the light TC rifle the 100-grain bulk Remington bullets have proven to be able to group into 1 �� three shot groups from field positions. This is with makeshift rests and sitting positions with the scope set on 8X. 36.0 grains of Alliant Reloder 15 gives me just over 3,000 fps and this is a fine load. Higher cost bullets will shoot smaller groups from the bench but in the field I cannot tell the difference between bullet brands.
My Winchester 25-35AE wears a Weaver V-3 which is more than enough scope for this rifle.
We are discussing varmint shooting but I have driven the 117-grain Hornady round nose bullet above 2,980 fps and this load kills deer very well. I prefer a load giving 2,800 fps and several powders will deliver this performance.
IMR 4320, Alliant Reloder 10X, Hodgdon 4895 and Varget will all deliver similar performance if 50 fps less velocity in some cases.
I have found no advantage to forming cases from 375 Winchester cases. Others may report different results but I have not been able to prove an advantage for the 375 Winchester case.
I generally form my cases from new 30-30 brass and always inside ream the necks after fire forming with fast powder and corn meal.
Everyone has an opinion and here is mine. I would ream my chamber to the standard 25-35 case. With a good extraction system the 25-35 cases will deliver fine performance when loaded to higher pressures. I still prefer the 100-grain bullets in the standard chamber and the 100-grain JHP Speer bullet is a favorite for me. This Speer bullet is accurate and tough enough for anything I will encounter. Any of the medium burn rate powders will push the 100-grain bullets above 2,600 fps from a 20� barrel. 4320, Reloder 10X, Varget and 4895 all proving to be top performers in the modern 25-35 rifle.

When my New Deal Handout comes in and I am a Hundredaire I hope to have a lever action rifle reamed for the 25-35 Tomcat. This will up my performance a bit from the standard cartridge will eliminate any fooling around with case forming. The reamer and reloading dies will be expensive but I believe the result will be worth the cost. I would prefer this milder form of Improvement to the full Ackley treatment. P.O. Ackley assisted Francis Sell in the design of his wildcat so there is no doubt about the careful thought put into establishing the performance goals for the cartridge and the design of the case.
With a discussion board as broad as the Campfire there must be others who already been there on this.

Mine has a King buckhorn that I thought looked original enough, I have replaced the front sight with a very carefully ground down chunk of a nickel. John's was taught to shoot by, I believe, his grandmother, that's why it is still a hunter. mine is a SRC & I'm looking for an original stock for it so it can prove it'self.
MC

William,

You have said that you have a 25-35AI but that you recommend the 25-35 standard cartridge. Do you mind explaining your rationale for that? I'm at the point where I feel strongly both ways.

I'm attracted to the idea of hotroding the standard case to AI and also of keeping the cartridge standard and finding out what it will do with modern powder and bullets.

Steve

I also have two standard 25-35�s. With a good extractor, the 25-35 loaded to higher pressure is a fine cartridge. I have not encountered case stretching difficulty - which I do hear about from other shooters when loading the standard 25-35 to higher pressures. My case life is excellent.

With the Improved case, you must fire form cases and for my chamber, I must inside ream the case necks. Case life is good so this is a one time operation but it is extra work.
Francis Sell designed his 25-35 Tomcat to use 30-30 cases without inside neck reaming.

For use as a walk around varminter, I believe you will be well served with the standard case for use with 100-grain and lighter bullets. The 117-grain bullets can be pushed quite fast with a strong action but my experience indicates I have quicker results on deer using the 100-grain bullets - my West Texas deer are not heavy bodied and I try for heart shots with the 25-35.

I was hoping another 25-35AI shooter would come out of the woodwork but I have met few - as in ONE - on the internet.
The modern 25-35 rifle offers a lot of experimentation and with the wide variety of suitable component powders and .25 caliber bullets available you will be shooting quite awhile before running out of new things to try.

William,

I respect you and your advice. The standard 25-35 it will be.

Thank you for your help. Lord knows I needed it!

Steve

Well, I hoped you would get additional input.
I don�t know how big your varmints are but the 75-grain Hornady Vmax will get 2,900 fps from 32.0 grains of Hodgdon Varget in the 1-14� twist 22� barrel. If you sight your rifle in at 150 yards you will be able to hold on most critters out to 200 yards. Your faster twist barrel may require altering this load slightly but I believe you will have little trouble equaling it.
When you get your rifle built I�ll try to get Greg Mushial from GMDR to join in the discussion. Greg had a fine slow twist 25-35. He was trying to build another but I have not heard from him in awhile. Between us we had gathered a fair amount of information about the older varmint rifles. It fun to talk about.

I have my great grandfather's 1894 Saddle Ring Carbine .25-35win made in 1906. He carried it horseback when he was the manager of a chicle plantation in old Mexico 1906-1909. I've killed a few deer with it.

Saweet!

Dober

DD

I visited a few gun stores in San Angelo last week and the Outdoorsman has two Model 94�s, a rifle and a carbine in 25-35. The carbine is very nice with an excellent finish and wood. The rifle has seen quite a bit of use but is also in excellent condition. Two very nice rifles with the correct sights. Unfortunately, the carbine is priced at $1,400.00 and the rifle at $1,200.00 which takes them out of my �impulse buying� range.

Here's mine on my latest hunt. No blood on it yet, unfortunately. She shoots straight though.

I will be re-barreling something to 25-35 in the near future. I have a 1899 savage that was a basket case when I received it or a 94 Win. that is now a 25-35 but the barrel is quite worn. It shoots Rem 86 gr, or 100 gr. pointed fed 1 by 1, but will not shoot Horn 117 gr. The question is the twist. As I understand some Win, 94s were 9 twist and possibly some were slower. But since the bullet speed will be slower than a 250 Sav. or 25-06 the twist needs to be faster. I would even consider an 8 twist as I doubt you would over stabilize it.

What experience have others had?

My Winchester has a 1 in 8" twist. At 2,200fps this bullet would be spinning a rough 200,000 rpm.
In the new Angle Eject Winchester with 20" barrel I push the 117-grain Hornady 2,350 fps+ with no difficulty using Alliant Reloder 15 and 10X.
A fune cartridge to load for, shoot and hunt with.

That is interesting I did not know Winchester used a 8 twist.

I have a re-barreled 336 marlin with a 1 in 10" twist that shoots the hornaday 117 grs just fine.

William...i shoot both the 25/35, and the Ackley Improved version also, although not in levergun format....yet.

my 25/35 is a 22" tapered light weight Contender carbine...makes for a nice walking gun. that one is a 1-10 twist, and shoots 100's pretty well, although i chased hogs a few years back with factory 117's.

my 25/35 Ackley is a 15" bull by Match Grade Machine, also a 1-10, built on a shilen blank. superb shooter...i shoot more 85's/87's in it than anything else, but it does about as well with 100's. never tried any heavies in it yet.

reloder-15 has done well for me in the 25/35AI...in the standard version, been shooting varget, IMR3031, and H4895.

what has been your "go-to" powder for loading the 25/35AI?

The internet is interesting. Marlin 25-35�s and TC�s with 25-35AI�s with some simple posts! That is some very good shooting with a handgun.

I agree the 1-10� twist is probably my dream barrel for the 25 Remington and the 25-35. I see both cartridges at their best with the 100-grain bullets.

My 25-35AI barrel is a 24� TC and I like Alliant Reloder 10X best. I alternate between 29.0 grains (2,719 fps) and 30.0 grains at 2,788 fps. There is not a lot of difference between the two loads accuracy wise. Both loads will shoot less than 1� with bulk Remington bullets and the premium bullets are only limited by my mediocre skill at the bench. This barrel and frame combination are best describes as �eager,� they shot so well I do not want to separate them.

For maximum velocity, I switch to Alliant Reloder 15 as you mentioned. The bulk 100-grain Remington bullets ahead of 35.5 grains give me 2,926 fps and 36.0 grains will beat 2,970 fps. I insisted I had to shoot a 3,000 fps load in this rifle and 36.5 grains of Reloder 15 will just top 3,000 fps, hitting 3.010 fps with no case life problems and no extraction trouble. While this is a good load, I don�t have to shoot it every day and the 2,900 fps loads work fine. I like the 24� barrel for it low muzzle blast, there is no fuss or muss with this rifle and cartridge.

34.0 grains of Hodgdon 4895 will deliver 2,903 fps with equal accuracy. Hodgdon 4895 is an easy powder to load in the 25-35AI. The 34.0 grain is best in my rifle with everything seeming to be �in balance.�

For group shooting at 100-yards 28.0 grains of Alliant Reloader [10X]will deliver 2,660 fps and I am able to approach a half inch - but I cannot quite say I get there.

With the 117-grain Sierra bullets I manage to stuff 40.0 grains of IMR 4350 in the case and seat the bullets to 2.750� COAL and this load will deliver 2,820 fps.
Reloder 15 will do the same thing with a different muzzle report, this is not to say the load is �stressed,� it just sounds different. 36.5 grains of Reloder 15 will give 2,970 fps and the load is easy to shoot.

These loads are all put up in formed R-P 30-30 brass with the necks inside reamed.

IMR 4320 is a favorite powder in the standard 25-35 but in the Improved case I have not been able to develop the accuracy other powders are capable of deliering. I am surprised Reloder 10X delivers such accuracy and velocity in the standard 25-35 and the Improved case but I find it delivers top performance with the 100-grain bullets.

I would like to have a 24� 1-10� barrel 25-35 Tomcat in a Marlin or Winchester AE. Maybe some one with a .25 Bullberry will post.


[Edit] I added 10X to the accuracy data to clear up the powder type. You are in Oklahoma, have you been over to see David White?

i hadnt tried Rl-10 in the 25/35ai, although i will...i shoot it lot in my 6.8's, and just loaded a batch of test loads with 10x in the .17Fireball also.

wonder if there would be any feeding issues in working the 25/35AI or the Tomcat in a lever?

i had a .25bullberry as well...i have a .25fetish i guess. but it was sandwiched in between my 25/35, a .25TCU, a .25classic, and my .257jdj, and the 25-35AI..finally sold the .25bullberry, and fire formed the rest of my brass to .25/35AI.

havent seen David....other than SSK rechambering a few for me, have not needed much 'smithing done.

had been toying with my imagined need for a 24" fluted carbine barrel in 25/35Ackley as a companion for my pistol barrel.

ever try any 75's in your 25/35's for plinking/yotes/etc?

william..i looked back a few pages and saw you mention the 75vmax...its on my list of "to try".

i ended up with a full 1 gallon container of speer 75FNSP's for my 25/20's, and pushed fast, they have great splatter effect. not a great long range bullets, but out to 100 or so...

had forgotten to as you about case forming on your 25/35AI's...
i usually take my 30-30 brass, run it through my 7x30waters die first, then neck to .25 and fireform.

subsequent firings get neck sized only...but, if case bodies get a tad plump, in my guns, i can use the FL sizer die from my .375win set to perfectly reduce case bodies again without bumping shoulders back.

Some great info. here. Rimfire- How fast are you running those ii7 bullets in your 336? Both of my actions are older and I dont want to push them to much. The 94 has been in the family since 1936 And other than the poor barrel seems to work fine. I just like to shoot whatever is in my gun room.

Not sure how fast they are going. My load is 26gr. IMR4320.The barrel is 26" on a 1949 336 action. 2" 10 shot groups are normal at 100 yds.using receiver sight.

Francis Sell reported no modifications to his Marlin rifle and no feeding issues. The Tomcat is a relatively minor �Improvement.�
I like the shape of the Bullberry cartridge.
I have extraction trouble with the standard 25-35 in the TC Contender using published load data. I figure the mild Improvement of the case will eliminate extraction trouble without serious case forming woes.
David is a good gunsmith and he can shoot a contender very well. He set up a 17 Ackley Hornet for my wife and it is a very accurate barrel for us.

There are days when I wish I had a heavier outfit than the 24� Contender with scope. I believe one or two pounds additional weight would help my shooting from field positions but I may wrong. If a guy had a Ruger No. 3 like our 7X57 friend, he might have an ideal walking around rifle. General Vernon MeGee had a Ruger No. 1 light rifle barreled for the 32 S&W Long cartridge and he thought he had a good light varmint rig for Central Texas.

In both the standard and the Improved 25-35 I cannot write enough words of praise for the 75-grain Sierra JHP bullet. This bullet is both accurate and a killer on coyote and feral dogs - this is sheep and goat country and dogs are a problem. The 75-grain Sierra will remain in a 40 lb critter and if it does not kill instantly, it will anchor them on the spot. Not all walking around shots are from ideal positions and time is important.
The 75-grain Hornady V-Max is another accurate and capable bullet. Greg Mushial recommended a load of 27.0 grains of Accurate Arms 2520 in the standard 25-35 and it worked well in my rifle too. This load giving 2,550 fps in the 24� barrel - with sticky extraction due to the Contenders extraction system. Less velocity but no extraction issues in the Model 94AE when loaded singly. The V-Max is tough enough to take on a Chow dog at 90 yards. Dogs with thick coats will defeat some varmint bullets and I am hesitant to move away from successful combinations.

I like the 75-grain Speer FN bullet in the 25-20. This is a good bullet that is not particularly fragile in the 25-20. The bullet will expand and penetrate at 25-20 velocities. How did you get a bucket full?

You are forming cases the cheapest way. The 7-30 Waters die is a good intermediate die. The 375 Winchester die is a good base sizing die and I use mine for the same purpose.
I have 219 Zipper and 219 Wasp form dies so I have other options.

Rimfire, I can tell you a 26� 30-30 is quite a bit of fun. I�ll bet your rifle is a quiet and fun rifle to carry and shoot. I�ll wager your load is nudging 2,350 fps.

saw an ad posted on a forum several years ago from a fellow that mentioned he had lots of those speer 75's. i think he had been silhouette shooting with a .256winmag, those seemed like just the thing for me to feed my small-cased .25's. we struck a deal. they have been a favorite in my 20" 25/20 contender carbine.

all top end loads in my 25/35 barrels also had sticky extraction.

think i'll load up some of the 75 sierras this week in the 25/35 to try next time we are calling yotes..they shot well in my .257TCU.

Rimfire I may experiment with 4320. None of my loading data lists 4320 for anything heaver than 100 grs. The top load for 100 is 29.0 at 2465fps. I am just getting into 25-35 but have been loading for 25-20 for 15 years in both jacket and cast. My model 92 WIN. shoots most everything well.

The 25 Tomcat sounds interesting, where can I find info. on it?

To all 25-35 lovers:

As mentioned above, I'm having a Ruger # 3 in 375 Win re-barreled to a 25-35. Dave Manson is making the reamer and it should be finished around the end of January.

When my gunsmith finishes the re-barreling, I'll be glad to lend my reamer for free, to whoever needs one here at the Fire.

So if not having 25-35 reamer has held you back from re-barreling, you now can be good to go.

Steve

Now That is a GENEROUS Offer. I for one will be watching 24HCP for news about how all this plays out. That should be a nice package. If I find the right barrel I might take you up on that offer.

I'll have to get a better photo of mine, but here is my 94 winchester in 25-35. I got it from my Grandfather and have taken several deer with it. My son carried it this year hunting for the first time. Tucked next to it is an 1873 trapdoor in 45-70 that is just incidental to the photo.

Very nice.

Steve,
With your single shot you might want a neck size die.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/819654/rcbs-neck-sizer-die-25-35-wcf

Almost fourteen years ago, I had retired from my career job and worked for a year or so trouble shooting and putting out fires for a large company. A friend asked me to keep an eye out for a pawn shop that might be for sale. Found it, deal made. Helped friend keep an eye on things as he had another business to run. The store had in stock at the time of the purchase a Model 12 20 ga. modified field grade and a 1894 in .25-35. Both were made in 1937, the year I was born, and in nice condition. I could have bought them for $225 each. Friend was struggling to get the business up and running, and I felt he needed to get the marked prices for his own good. Life's regrets. I should have just doubled his generous offer and took both. 20/20 hindsight. A re barrel on one of my Marlins will likely cost more. jack

Ooooohhh...Bummer!

One day I hope to find a shooter because I have been finding ammo for them for years.
I have on hand 6 boxes of Winchester factory loads.Almost made a deal on one with the crescent butt plate but the deal didn't go through.
Nice youngster as well.Treasure them.

Oh I do. Thank you.

He fired a gun for the first time the other day. Ruger 10-22. He loved it.

Francis Sell wrote two specific articles on the Tomcat and then a third about off hand shooting that featured the rifle, a 24� barrel Marlin 336.
Wolfe publishing has printed a book of cartridge drawings by Dave LeGate. Wolfe removed Dave�s signature mark on the drawings in the book. Here is a copy of the drawing from the article with his signature.

A Custom Deer Rifle by Francis Sell, American rifleman May 1978

.25-35 Tomcat by Francis Sell Rifle September/October 1982 reprinted in the Wildcat cartridges book from Wolfe Publishing.

Thanks for posting the Tomcat drawing. I will have to check this out further. I am in the middle of moving so most everything else is on hold.

I prefer the �mild Improvement� of the Tomcat and the .25 Bullberry to the sharp shoulder of the Ackley for the 25-35. Using today�s powder in a modern rifle, there is not a pressing requirement for any �Improvement� in the 25-35. The �need� is for a modern bullet for the modern lever action rifle.
Ken Waters wrote an article titled along the lines of �Bullets Wanted� and he called for a 100-grain flat nose bullet for the 25-35. I too prefer the 100-grain bullets in the 25-35 and have experienced good results on our little West Texas deer and smaller pigs when using the 100-grain Speer JHP bullet. I have several friends who shoot the 7-30 Waters with 24� and 20� barrels. I give up nothing to these rifles when comparing the cartridge under typical field situations. These words do not apply to the standard 25-35 in the Thomson Center Contender due to the limits of the extractor.
The questions for the builder of a new 25-35 today is what game will I hunt and what rifling twist is optimum. I believe the 1-10� twist is best but if I was certain this was primarily a small game rifle I would select a 1-14� twist. Greg Mushials 1-14� twist rifle would shoot very small groups with the Speer 75-grain flat nose bullet. If I were hunting coyotes this might not be the best selection - I guess I need a switch barrel Model 94AE!

You seem very up on the 25-35. What pressures do the Tomcat and the .25 Bullberry develop? Would they be compatible with a winchester 94 pre. war model?
Thanks for sharing your information on the fire.
When I get moved I will start getting serious about the resources you have posted.

I know this is a lever forum....but I do not have a lever 25-35 winchester - yet

I do have an Austrian stalking rifle in 25-35

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Have yet to take any animals with it yet - but I will keep trying!!!

Who cares.That is a nice looking rifle.

Thanks Plainsman456 it must have been built for a woman or a young person as the LOP is 12.5". I put one of the leather cover pads on it and it works for me

Does anybody have any thoughts or experience on having a 25-35 barrel made for a Stevens 325?

That ought to be cool. I had never thought of it, but it would seem that it should be an easy setup.

I thought I recalled Winchester using 1-8" twist and noted that you mentioned this a few pages back as well. I have a 1-8" twist barrel blank available and thought about using it. I shoot mostly cast bullets and currently have a couple molds in the 75-100 gr. range. Have you worked much with cast in your Winchester? I keep thinking back to the troubles the cast bullet guys had with the 6.5X55 and it's quick twist. It would shoot well up to maybe 1700 FPS or so but most efforts to make it past that did not turn out well.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=274056353

Don't drool on your keyboard.