Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Predators and Varmints 22 mag vs 204, the economics?

I spent an hour and a half at the range yesterday, trying to figure out which round the old Marlin 22 Mag likes..

my conclusion was after shooting up about 50 rounds of a different types of ammo for the 22 Mag, that even tho it has a 100 yd plus capability, its accuracy after about 50 yds goes to crap, so one might as well use a 22 LR...

since deer season is over and I saw a lot of coyotes out deer hunting, I figured I'd spend some time in the same area calling some coyotes, and waste the some of the high number of crows in that area...

the 22 Mag isn't going to cut it, and I don't think the 17 HMR has enough clout to get the job done...

one the drive home, I started thinking about the economics of the 204 and handloading it vs the cost of the 22 Mag ammo at
BiMart here...

rough numbers in my head, tell me that one can load the 204 ( 200 rounds) for about the same cost as 200 rounds of 22 Mag..figuring one already owns the brass from previous use..

250 rounds expense really becomes a wash...

I think of the 204 here, vs the 223, as I have a 204 lightweight barrel given to me by a forum member long ago..
My son shoots it a lot, when I have it together... its a Ruger barrel, so I switch barrel a stainless Ruger action...
The Ruger with the light barrel on it, vs the Marlin 22 mag are surprisingly about the same weight..hence the two comparisons...

the 204 of course will have performance all over the 22 Mag..
40 grain bullet at 1850 fps vs a 26 grain HP Barnes in a 204 at 4200 fps...plus the accuracy declines after 50 yds with the 22 Mag.. so the 204 also has the accuracy far beyond that..

so for those 204 guys who told me I'd eventually warm up to the 204.. well compared to the 22 Mag, guess they were right..

now I just need to set up a 17 Fireball barrel...

IF you are set up to handload (i.e. you have everything but the .204 dies), and IF you regularly need to shoot beyond 100 yards, I agree that your economics are probably right, over the long haul.

BUT many .22WRMs are accurate to at least 100 yards (and that's a fairly LONG range for called coyotes in my experience, although you might be calling in country without much cover). Have you tried all the ammo available? .22 rimfires of all sorts are ammo sensitive; you may just not have found the right shells for your Marlin.

AND, you can't shoot .204s in any handgun but a single shot. One of the reasons I like .22 WRM is that it's both a good rifle round and a handgun round.

ON THE OTHER HAND, maybe you just want a new rifle. NOTHING wrong with that!

Seafire: You have ONCE AGAIN left YOUR time and toil out of the rimfire vs handloading centerfires equation.
My numbers are pretty much in from this years rimfire usage and I went through 10 full (and one partial) Federal 525 packs of 22 L.R. thats 5,500 rounds then I went through 1,200 Winchester Power-Point L.R.'s along with 1,600 17 HMR rounds and 200 17 Mach2 cartridges - THE MAIN selling point of the rimfires is YOU don't have to sit in the loading room reloading them!
Visualize the time and toil that it would take to handload 8,500 MORE rounds for my shooting enjoyment.
Let me characterize that thusly - if I had to reload those rimfires I would NOT have done nearly as much shooting!
Yes rimfire ammunition IS expensive, including quality 22 Magnum stuff (which I don't use much anymore at all), but I feel it is money rather well spent considering the benefits that come with that pricey but ready to rock and roll ammo!
Once the 17 HMR came along I completely quit trying to use the 22 Magnum for longer range useages than the 22 L.R.!
To tell the truth I still have not tried any of the "quality" ammunition that has been recently manufactured for the 22 Magnum. The ballistics for the 17 HMR are just so much better than the 22 Magnum that I have no compulsion to check the "accuracy" of the 22 Magnum at longer ranges anymore.
And don't forget that under certain circumstances "rimfires" are mandated by state law or landowner fiat!
I deal with this landowner policy in a number of places I Hunt.
I miss Hunting Crows, like I grew up doing in Washington state - here in Montana both Crows and Ravens are protected!
Although folks often take liberties with this law and to date I have never heard of a prosecution for shooting Crows or Ravens.
And lastly, I always stop at Bi-Mart stores when I am travelling out of state (there are no Bi-Marts in Montana) as they often have some very good prices on rimfire ammunition of all makes and calibers.
Keep up the shooting - even a less than great day at the range is still a GREAT day.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Seafire,

Your loads for the 204 with bluedot powder would be even more economical to shoot.

Have some loaded for my 204 at about 2800 FPS.

Can't wait 'till spring to try 'em out.

Virgil B.

Yeah Virgil,

I have some of those, but mentioning Blue Dot loads always seems to invoke some negativity from some...so I don't talk bring it up often..

I still have my JC Higgins 22 mag that still shoots great groups at 100 yrds. I bought it in the very early 60s and it has served me well coyote head shots at 100 yrds brought me $40 per dog, unskinned in the 70s when pelts were in demand. You might check your scope and mounts. You would be surprised at the difference quality mounts will make with a good scope.

My Dad has a CZ that shoots certain 22Mag under an inch at 100, and doesn't jam o matic.
But handloading certain centerfires beats the mag rimfire option by a mile, especially if you have made the expenditure for a progressive press.

VG,

evidently you and I differ on time handloading...

That is how I prefer to spend some of my free time, when my son is tied up with homework, and the wife is parked watching TV per usual... which is in the evening when it is dark outside so I can't be out varmint hunting anyway..

you probably have a lot more opportunity to spend time out shooting varmints compared to me also... just the logistics of where each of us live..

heck, nothing would make me happier than to spend my free time wearing out barrels on varmint rigs...

the other thing about rimfires that always bothers me, is that I can't reload them... hate to see the brass go to waste.. I actually single shot many of my rimfires also and then collect the brass instead of leaving it on the ground..

when I get a bucket full, I recycle it...

have a small bucket also that I throw spent primers in... It currently has about two # 10 cans equivalent of spent primers in it..or more....that's an indicator to me of how many rounds I have reloaded and shot... many of them 22 caliber stuff...

next summer I turn 60.. can't believe I have managed to live that long...but I hope I can spend more time wearing out rifle barrels, and putting callouses on my trigger finger...\\be it rimfire or centerfire..

You're absolutely right about the .204 (or really any of the .224 centerfires) having it all over the .22mag. .22m ammo is really too expensive for plinkin compared to .22lr and is marginal in the poop department for hunting anything bigger than a jackrabbit compared to the centerfires. A half a** jack of all trades, master of none IMO. For years I've tried to like the .22M because frankly I don't like reloading. But just hasn't been there for me and what does it really take to reload a centerfire rifle cartridge anyway? Heck with a single stage press I can load 100 rounds in an hour, maybe a little more, start to finish. When I get done I can have a load that is on the low end of power (but still well above the .22M), a real barrel burner or anything in between all for about the same or less money. The time I spend reloading? Why should I count an hour before I go to bed when all I would be doing is watching the tube anyway.

Heck, even if you don't reload the centerfires still have it all over the .22M. We can get .204's for about $16/20. If most shooters send more than 100 rounds of .22M or small centerfires at meat a year I'd be shocked so we're really only talking $60 in ammo price difference. Less than 1 tank of gas in the hunting truck.

Ya want to see the .22M really fall on it's face start looking at handguns. Always said the best .22m handgun is a .38 (although the same could be said for the .32's). I can reload my .32H&R for well below the cost of buying .22m ammo.

CB

My Browning T-Bolt in 22 WMR is a ragged hole shooter with the Hornady 30 gr V-Max, but have never tried them on a coyote.

My .22 mag's accuracy doesn't fall apart beyond 50 yards. It gives consistent sub-MOA groups at a full 100 yards with two different loads, the Rem 33 gr. premiere V-max and CCI 40 gr. HP. It's certain death on woodchucks out to 140 yds. on a calm day and about the perfect nighttime calling rifle for fox. I hate reloading and would much rather spend my time hunting with a .22 mag than stuffing .223's. Long live the .22 Magnum !

So what your telling us is that for the same price you can spend 10 hours loading 1000 rnds while I can purchase 1000 rnds in a few minutes also my time is worth $44.00 per hr so add another $440.00 to the reload costs.

Well, your time is only worth $44/hr if you take off work time to reload, not likely. Some people enjoy reloading and some don't. The good part is that either can be available to the shooter. I still shoot a 22 mag some, but I shoot the 204 a lot more and enjoy the reloading as well.

There's room on this ship for all of us.

I don't think it's a matter of folks having anything against reloaders enjoying their "hobby" . It's about the ABSOLUTE intellectual DISHONESTY of those who claim that paying $10 for a box of 50 rounds of loaded rimfire mag ammo is somehow more "expensive" than paying $10 of LOOSE COMPONENTS for a centerfire round.

It's total bullschit. It's like saying a kit car in a box is a better deal than driving one off the lot for the same $$.

YES -if you are willing to put a minimum of $10 worth of your time into loading each box of 50, then smallbore reloads are "great". The thing is the ammunition factory's time is worth $$ and so is yours , whether you are too cheap to admit that to yourself or not.

And BTW, ANYONE who would try to tell me they would rather spend time at a reloading bench rather than shooting is a damn liar.

And BTW, ANYONE who would try to tell me they would rather spend time at a reloading bench rather than shooting is a damn liar

Then I am a Damned Liar... I enjoy both equally...

I enjoy working with my hands and reloading allows me to do that...I find it more enjoyable than sitting on my fanny in front of the TV...

Plenty of times a week, I may end up going out to the reload bench and load up 10 to 20 rounds just to 'take a break' from the day to day...

some guys like working on engines, and modifying a vehicle, more than just getting in it and drive to Walmart to pick up something for the wife.....

some of you guys pay big bucks for what you consider recreation... me, I live where I can get recreation outdoors just around the corner... and when it is the evening, I enjoy some more recreation by just going out in the garage and playing at the reload bench...

so I guess that "makes me a liar" and I have no problem with that accusation...

testing all that ammo I load up, shooting 250 to 500 rounds a month is nothing really unusual....and that is centerfire, not rimfire...

rimfire, I just get the urge, and will go down and buy a box, and go shoot it...

I am with you on your stance on this Seafire.

I certainly enjoy my time at the loading bench, not only is it relaxing but it lets me produce a product that is developed especially for my rifle, not a generic off the shelf load.

I guess I am a liar too becasue I certainly enjoy the reloading, and then I really enjoy going out to my bench and shooting what I produced.

drover

Drover you are not a liar,. just too intellectually dishonest to answer the actual question.

The question is NOT if you enjoy reloading...

The question is would you RATHER spend the time reloading rather than than shooting ammo for the SAME amount of $$..

No Seafire, you are just being intellectually dishonest again.

By the title of this very thread, YOU are the one who tries to claim rimfire magnum ammo is "more expensive" than reloads. Which we both know, it's not.

Cheapskates are always are trying to justify their poor logic. One of which is trying to save a penny by spending a DIME's worth of their time to do it.

The question is for same $10 would you rather spend time reloading components to build 50 rounds OR spend that time shooting loaded ammo?

Intellectually dishonest?

ya wanna describe that for us?

do you really think I had nothing better to do, but to decide to post something so I could be 'intellectually dishonest' to the other members of the forum???

My definition of intellectual dishonesty is when someone tries to ignore part of the very REAL cost of producing loaded ammo(time) when trying to claim their hand loads are "cheaper" than rimfire mag ammo at $10 per 50 rounds.

About most things ,you seem rational and honest. When comparing the real cost of rimfire magnum ammo to centerfire reloads- not so much.