Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Real world .223 REM Velocities

Hi,

I just picked up a fast twist 1 in 8 223 a few weeks ago. The rifle is Tikka T3 with a 22" bbl. (I know, I know, ) I was fortunate to kill a buck with it the first week of our deer season with factory 64 grain power points.

Received my reloading dies yesterday so I loaded a bunch of rounds up last evening using WSR primers, virgin WW brass, VARGET, and 64 grain PPs at 2.27 in OAL.

Here's how the velocities looked:

Winchester Factory 64 gr Power Point 2801 fps

24 grain Varget 2663 fps

25 grain Varget 2810 fps

26 grain Varget 2922 fps

The accuracy of the various Varget loads was excellent with 3 shots running 0.6-0.7 inches at 100 yards. For the 64 grain power point, I am very pleased with the accuracy.

From a lot of the threads I have looked at regarding the 223 REM it seems that hitting over 3000 FPS with a 60-64 grain bullet is very common. However, given the fact my factory loads are only getting around 2800 fps maybe the low 2900's is all will be able to achieve.

What do you guys think? at 26 grains varget there were no pressure signs and velocity was in the low 2900's. Would you give you push it a bit more or leave as is?

I have been reloading for 8 years and have lots of experience with 308, 30-06, and 22 250 but this is my first time loading for the 223. Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Colin

Colin:

I do not have my manuals handy, but I am always hesitant to load past a Maximum manual load. I can't confirm a manual MAX load w/ Varget as the manuals are elsewhere...but from memory, sounds like you are close w/ a 64 grain bullet.

That being said, IF you want to go up from where you are, I suggest you do so in one tenth grain increments.

Be Safe!

If the brass is coping and the primer pockets are still tight after 5 reloads ... then yes ... I'd keep pushing.

But ... if you do gain 100fps, practically speaking what have you really gained?
Cheers...
Con

Colin - I push 69 scenars with 26 grains of varget. Haven't chony'd yet, though. I'm likely going to back off a bit since I would like my lapua brass to hold up.

time to get off that kind of powder your using! Try BLC2 or AA2520. I use BLC2 for about 75% of all my .223 loads, but rarely attempt to shoot anything heavier than 60 grains. You also might try 3031 and 2015BR
gary

Thanks guys. I am not too hung up on the velocity. Accuracy is good and I will try some other powders to compare accuracy/velocity. All part of the fun loading for a new-to-me cartridge.

Different bullet but I load the 62gr TSX to around 3050fps with TAC in my T3. Works great!

I have Varget as well but not really any reason to try it. I do believe Hodgdon lists 26gr of varget with the 70gr speer so I would think your fine.

Thanks. Will the 62 tsx seat ok without having to modify the mag? I want to try those bullets.

Colin

Yeah no problem. I am not sure how far off the lands I am though. Shoots around or a little less then an inch at 100.

Deer aren't the biggest in East Texas but I do have 100% confidence in the load. I might try the TTSX one of these days if I ever run out

Thanks!

Benchmark. Try it.
24gr with a 75gr AMAX gets me 2950+. I backed off to 23.5 and am going to try 23.0. 3000 should be easy with a 64gr.

For a very accurate load, I use 23.5 grains of Benchmark with a 60 grain BT. For the heavier 77's it's 23.5 of TAC. CCI 41 and military brass for both loads. Not the fastest loads but both are 1/2 MOA in several .223 rifles.

60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon CFE 223 .224" 2.250" 25.0 3007 46,000 PSI 26.7 3176 53,400 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Varget .224" 2.250" 25.0 2924 40,400 CUP 27.0C 3159 51,900 CUP
60 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 4320 .224" 2.250" 23.7 2860 45,400 PSI 25.3C 3006 52,100 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 4064 .224" 2.250" 23.0 2837 42,500 PSI 24.7C 3055 52,600 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon BL-C(2) .224" 2.250" 25.0 2948 44,900 CUP 27.0 3137 51,900 CUP
60 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 4895 .224" 2.250" 23.7 2884 45,000 PSI 25.2C 3052 52,700 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.250" 22.5 2910 43,700 CUP 24.0 3075 50,600 CUP
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H4895 .224" 2.250" 24.0 2918 37,600 CUP 26.0C 3174 50,100 CUP
60 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.250" 21.5 2857 43,500 PSI 23.6 3057 51,700 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 3031 .224" 2.250" 21.0 2815 42,500 PSI 22.5 3008 51,700 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon Benchmark .224" 2.250" 23.0 2913 42,500 CUP 24.6 3086 49,900 CUP
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H322 .224" 2.250" 22.0 2873 40,300 CUP 23.5 3063 49,800 CUP
60 GR. HDY V-MAX IMR IMR 4198 .224" 2.250" 18.3 2795 42,500 PSI 19.5 2945 52,000 PSI
60 GR. HDY V-MAX Hodgdon H4198 .224" 2.250" 18.0 2747 42,500 CUP 20.0 2953 47,600 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon CFE 223 .224" 2.200" 25.0 2957 46,300 PSI 26.4 3113 53,500 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon Varget .224" 2.200" 24.5 3000 42,400 CUP 26.4C 3199 50,700 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 4320 .224" 2.200" 23.0 2733 42,500 PSI 25.5 2975 52,900 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 4064 .224" 2.200" 22.5 2765 44,400 PSI 24.8C 3028 52,600 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Winchester 748 .224" 2.200" 25.0 2970 47,500 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon BL-C(2) .224" 2.200" 24.0 2847 36,600 CUP 26.0 3054 46,300 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 4895 .224" 2.200" 22.9 2758 42,700 PSI 25.3 3054 53,500 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.200" 22.5 2820 41,000 CUP 25.0 3051 50,000 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H4895 .224" 2.200" 23.5 2831 43,300 CUP 25.5 3078 50,000 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 8208 XBR .224" 2.200" 21.0 2783 43,000 PSI 23.1 2995 52,400 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 3031 .224" 2.200" 21.0 2737 42,900 PSI 23.3 3018 53,000 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon Benchmark .224" 2.200" 22.0 2845 41,800 CUP 24.2 3066 50,500 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H322 .224" 2.200" 20.0 2672 38,100 CUP 22.0 2862 48,400 CUP
63 GR. SIE SP IMR IMR 4198 .224" 2.200" 18.5 2756 48,100 PSI 20.0 2946 53,500 PSI
63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H4198 .224" 2.200" 18.0 2680 33,600 CUP 20.0 2846 44,600 CUP

What length barrel? That's hummin' for 75s, I may need to pick some BM up for the AI and the Vanilla... as soon as I run out of this Varget...

Thanks. Very interesting

I've tried Tac, Varget, 748, and others. My search stopped with Benchmark. Good velocity, great accuracy, and clean burning. What's not to like?

26" savage 9 twist.

the 223 Rem and 5.56 have different pressure limits. I have always loaded to the pressure limits of the 5.56 without any issures.

Difference in barrels(#of grooves, bore dia, Groove dia) lot# of powder, lot# of Primers, differnce in chamber configurations all leade up to a conclusion that a Reloading manual and Quick Load are for reference only. You will have to use your own best judgment in what is safe in your rifle.

they work on the same pressure limits. the pressure is just measured at a different place. SAAMI and NATO dont measure it the same. the excessive leade of the 5.56 is where the problem is

While the 5.56mm NATO and .223 Remington cartridges and chamberings are very similar, they are not identical.

While there is a myth that 5.56 NATO cases are thicker and hence have less capacity than commercial .223 cases, this has been shown to be false. Each brand of case and each manufacturing lot has a slightly different case capacity; 5.56 NATO and .223 commercial cases tend to have nearly identical case capacity when measured using the water test.[6] The NATO specification allows a higher chamber pressure. NATO EPVAT test barrels made for 5.56mm NATO measure chamber pressure at the case mouth, as opposed to the location used by the United States civil standards organization SAAMI. The piezoelectric sensors or transducers NATO and SAAMI use to conduct the actual pressure measurements also differ. This difference in measurement method accounts for upwards of 137.9 megapascals (20,000 psi) difference in pressure measurements. This means the NATO EPVAT maximum service pressure of 430 megapascals (62,000 psi) for 5.56mm NATO, is reduced by SAAMI to 379.21 megapascals (55,000 psi) for .223 Remington.[7] In contrast to SAAMI, the other main civil standards organization C.I.P. defines the maximum service and proof test pressures of the .223 Remington cartridge equal to the 5.56mm NATO.

The 5.56mm NATO chambering, known as a NATO or mil-spec chamber, has a longer leade, which is the distance between the mouth of the cartridge and the point at which the rifling engages the bullet. The .223 Remington chambering, known as SAAMI chamber, is allowed to have a shorter leade, and is only required to be proof tested to the lower SAAMI chamber pressure. To address these issues, various proprietary chambers exist, such as the Wylde chamber (Bill Wylde)[8] or the ArmaLite chamber, which are designed to handle both 5.56mm NATO and .223 Remington equally well. The dimensions and leade of the .223 Remington minimum C.I.P. chamber also differ from the 5.56mm NATO chamber specification.

Using commercial .223 Remington cartridges in a 5.56mm NATO chambered rifle should work reliably, but generally will not be as accurate as when fired from a .223 Remington chambered gun due to the longer leade.[9] Using 5.56mm NATO mil-spec cartridges (such as the M855) in a .223 Remington chambered rifle can lead to excessive wear and stress on the rifle and even be unsafe, and the SAAMI recommends against the practice.[10][11] Some commercial rifles marked as ".223 Remington" are in fact suited for 5.56mm NATO, such as many commercial AR-15 variants and the Ruger Mini-14, but the manufacturer should always be consulted to verify that this is acceptable before attempting it, and signs of excessive pressure (such as flattening or gas staining of the primers) should be looked for in the initial testing with 5.56mm NATO ammunition