Bob.That full page of typing could have been a little bit simpler.If one insists on using a cartrige that typically pushes bullets 3000fps+ they need tougher bullets. The.270 certainly does that with 130gr bullets.
If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
The 270 WCF is my fav. for deer sized game, its not loud, it doesnt kick, the rifles are very light and easy to handle, but handloaded with a 150 gn NP's at 2950 its a killin' SOB, and does way better than paper ballistics would lead some to believe.
I cant ever see myself without at least one or four
I have used mostly partitions in both the 270 and the 30 calibers with a few other bullets thrown in.
Every animal I have ever shot with a 30 caliber has shown immediate signs that they were hit. With the exception of one buck that I can remember most deer shot behind the front shoulder "hump" up, tuck thier tail and can not even move much faster than a walk for few yards before giving it up. I have also never had a animal go more than about 60 yards after being shot with a 30 caliber gun (the buck from above being the exception).
I have shot several animals with the 270 win that showed no signs of being hit as they ran off. Also on average they will go farther after being shot and I have several go more than 100 yards.
Blood trails have also always been better for me with stuff shot with the 30 caliber guns.
Sure the 30 caliber guns kick more than the 270 win. but anyone that can shoot a 270 can shoot a 30/06 if they want to.
I won't say the 270 sucks or that one will have difficulty killing with a 270. I will say that I have seen a noticeable difference in the way a 270 kills and how a 30 caliber gun kills game.
I have no reason to doubt your experience or RinB's but the 270 win just has never worked as well for me as 30 caliber guns.
Let's think a bit about some of what's being said here.....we will increase bore diameter .031,increase case capacity by 20-30 grains,bring velocities to around the same as a 270 with bullets weighing 30+ grains more, and then compare killing effectiveness,and therefore the 270 "sucks" and leaves ironclad deer rambling through the countryside leaking blood all over the place......something ain't right...
Ananlyze this......."I gotta go up in bore size,bullet weight,case capacity,and velocity to beat a 270.." Well, no shidt Dick Tracy!
I have read some really stupid shidt in my life but some of this stuff just takes the cake.
Do I think a 270 is as powerful as a 300 or 338 magnum? Of course not....
Do I think a 7 magnum shooting heavy 160 or 175 gr bullets is a step up from a 270? Yes,I do.
Do I think a 30/06 kills anything "better"? No...not until you get into the class of the very heaviest game (brown bear,Cape Buffalo,etc.)with 200-220 gr bullets,simply because the heavier bullets will penetrate better, and break heavy bones on such game better than a 270's lighter bullets.This is called common sense.
But do I think the 30/06 or 308 Winchester kills lesser game "better"? Nope.
A 7x57,7-08,280,284,264,etc etc.....any of them kill game "better"? Gimme a break....it isn't even worth discussing. Complete waste of time....
Second, no one mentions bullets .....
I think the reason some have problems with the 270 is that they use junk,thin jacketed,plastic tipped stuff under this "theory" of bullet blowup being the path to rapid kills with small bores.....well,maybe. I am still really conflicted on this notion,and think it has good application for very LR shooting....but under more conventional distances, I still like bullets of tougher construction.
Following that line of thinking, I have had no problems killing with any cartridge from a 257 Roberts through the 375H&H.If there was a "problem" (damn few)it was all placement....
I am mystified by the difficulty some folks have had killing animals with a 270 Winchester. I have had "zero" problems.I think the reason is that,almost from the start back in the 70's,I have fed 270's nothing but Partitions and Bitterroots.I have some recovered BBC's back here from 270's that killed game,that have broader frontal areas, and more retained weight,than 180 gr bullets fired into game from a 300 magnum....I don't give a flying rats ass about how good a bullet looks on a ballistic chart....I want to know results in an animal.I have noticed that if I use a bullet fully capable of reliably expanding,punching through a chest cavity and destroying vitals,and retaining enough weight to reliably break up bones on the offside,animals simply die.
All I know is I have never had these "mysterious" difficulties killing anything with a 270 at any distance or circumstance I have bumped into using these bullets.So I simply do not understand when a guy says a 270 sucks, but a 30/06 or 280 is hell on wheels.....I wonder if we hunt on the same planet for the same animals.
RinB on here has as much or more 270 experience in Africa(where I have not been yet)as anyone I know,except Johnny B.He won't talk about it but I will. He has killed over 200 head of African game from eland down with the 270 and 130 gr bullets;mostly Bitterroots, Barnes X, Swift S-co's and Aframes.He tells me of whacking a zebra with a 130 Aframe on the point of the shoulder quartering on with a 130 Aframe...the zebra collapsed in a heap,the bullet ranging back forward of the off side haunch,after breaking the shoulder.What's a zebra weigh? 500-700 pounds? Floored by a 270 and a great bullet? How do we reconcile this with notions of little does shrugging off hits from a 270?
He sends bullets over there for these African guys to test.....they say "Send more Barnes and Swift Aframes.....hold the Accubonds!" Mmmmm.
Another pal took his Dad and 12 year old son to Africa...all three spent 10 days knocking the snot out of kudu, gemsbuck,zebra,eland,and whatnot with 130 gr TTSX's from a 270 Winchester.
Reconcile this with half starved little deer running all over the place after a chest hit and it makes you wonder, what's the difference? Bullets .
I don't think the perfect hunting cartridge exists (unless it's the 375H&H because what is "perfect" will change with range, size of animal,impact velocity, bullet performance, etc.But the notion the 270 does not perform with anything else in its power class and powder capacity ....is silly.The notion that a 10 gr increase in bullet weight and increased diameter by .007 results in some "magic", is nonsense.Bullets,bullet construction, and placement are the key....not some silly notion about the headstamp being somehow inadequate.
As to paying a deposit, and taking a 270 on an important hunt beng out of the question? Gimme a break...what ridiculous nonsense.I have paid tens of thousands of my own money and put it on the line for important hunts and thrown a 270 on the plane. So have friends....and I would do it again tomorrow.
Here's the dirty little secret to killing game with a 270....use good bullets, and put them in the right place.
Execellent post and spot on!
+1
And there you go again, Bob, waxing eloquent with passion about a topic you obviously know something about. Sounds like a gun writer to me and a pretty good one at that...
Let's think a bit about some of what's being said here.....we will increase bore diameter .031,increase case capacity by 20-30 grains,bring velocities to around the same as a 270 with bullets weighing 30+ grains more, and then compare killing effectiveness,and therefore the 270 "sucks" and leaves ironclad deer rambling through the countryside leaking blood all over the place......something ain't right...
Ananlyze this......."I gotta go up in bore size,bullet weight,case capacity,and velocity to beat a 270.." Well, no shidt Dick Tracy!
I have read some really stupid shidt in my life but some of this stuff just takes the cake.
Do I think a 270 is as powerful as a 300 or 338 magnum? Of course not....
Do I think a 7 magnum shooting heavy 160 or 175 gr bullets is a step up from a 270? Yes,I do.
Do I think a 30/06 kills anything "better"? No...not until you get into the class of the very heaviest game (brown bear,Cape Buffalo,etc.)with 200-220 gr bullets,simply because the heavier bullets will penetrate better, and break heavy bones on such game better than a 270's lighter bullets.This is called common sense.
But do I think the 30/06 or 308 Winchester kills lesser game "better"? Nope.
A 7x57,7-08,280,284,264,etc etc.....any of them kill game "better"? Gimme a break....it isn't even worth discussing. Complete waste of time....
Second, no one mentions bullets .....
I think the reason some have problems with the 270 is that they use junk,thin jacketed,plastic tipped stuff under this "theory" of bullet blowup being the path to rapid kills with small bores.....well,maybe. I am still really conflicted on this notion,and think it has good application for very LR shooting....but under more conventional distances, I still like bullets of tougher construction.
Following that line of thinking, I have had no problems killing with any cartridge from a 257 Roberts through the 375H&H.If there was a "problem" (damn few)it was all placement....
I am mystified by the difficulty some folks have had killing animals with a 270 Winchester. I have had "zero" problems.I think the reason is that,almost from the start back in the 70's,I have fed 270's nothing but Partitions and Bitterroots.I have some recovered BBC's back here from 270's that killed game,that have broader frontal areas, and more retained weight,than 180 gr bullets fired into game from a 300 magnum....I don't give a flying rats ass about how good a bullet looks on a ballistic chart....I want to know results in an animal.I have noticed that if I use a bullet fully capable of reliably expanding,punching through a chest cavity and destroying vitals,and retaining enough weight to reliably break up bones on the offside,animals simply die.
All I know is I have never had these "mysterious" difficulties killing anything with a 270 at any distance or circumstance I have bumped into using these bullets.So I simply do not understand when a guy says a 270 sucks, but a 30/06 or 280 is hell on wheels.....I wonder if we hunt on the same planet for the same animals.
RinB on here has as much or more 270 experience in Africa(where I have not been yet)as anyone I know,except Johnny B.He won't talk about it but I will. He has killed over 200 head of African game from eland down with the 270 and 130 gr bullets;mostly Bitterroots, Barnes X, Swift S-co's and Aframes.He tells me of whacking a zebra with a 130 Aframe on the point of the shoulder quartering on with a 130 Aframe...the zebra collapsed in a heap,the bullet ranging back forward of the off side haunch,after breaking the shoulder.What's a zebra weigh? 500-700 pounds? Floored by a 270 and a great bullet? How do we reconcile this with notions of little does shrugging off hits from a 270?
He sends bullets over there for these African guys to test.....they say "Send more Barnes and Swift Aframes.....hold the Accubonds!" Mmmmm.
Another pal took his Dad and 12 year old son to Africa...all three spent 10 days knocking the snot out of kudu, gemsbuck,zebra,eland,and whatnot with 130 gr TTSX's from a 270 Winchester.
Reconcile this with half starved little deer running all over the place after a chest hit and it makes you wonder, what's the difference? Bullets .
I don't think the perfect hunting cartridge exists (unless it's the 375H&H because what is "perfect" will change with range, size of animal,impact velocity, bullet performance, etc.But the notion the 270 does not perform with anything else in its power class and powder capacity ....is silly.The notion that a 10 gr increase in bullet weight and increased diameter by .007 results in some "magic", is nonsense.Bullets,bullet construction, and placement are the key....not some silly notion about the headstamp being somehow inadequate.
As to paying a deposit, and taking a 270 on an important hunt beng out of the question? Gimme a break...what ridiculous nonsense.I have paid tens of thousands of my own money and put it on the line for important hunts and thrown a 270 on the plane. So have friends....and I would do it again tomorrow.
Here's the dirty little secret to killing game with a 270....use good bullets, and put them in the right place.
Now that was one hell of a post, probably the best I've seen on the Fire over the years. Well done my friend!
Dober
(Brux .270 barrel should show tween now and Christmas, now I just gotta find a stash of Bitteroots... )
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
The 270 WCF is my fav. for deer sized game, its not loud, it doesnt kick, the rifles are very light and easy to handle, but handloaded with a 150 gn NP's at 2950 its a killin' SOB, and does way better than paper ballistics would lead some to believe.
I cant ever see myself without at least one or four
Dink I was not directing just at you ....but also at some of the other stuff I have read on here over the years on the 270. I don't doubt your experiences,because you know what you are talking about......only that mine have been a whole bunch different...which is why I am not trying to be a smart azz, but am truly surprised at what I read about other's experiences.....reasonable men will differ I guess.
Yes I have had some spectaular kills with stuff bigger than a 270...and I have also had animals make tracks.....with ALL of them. I recall one big bodied Sask buck about 350 yards across a big field that I hit well with a 300 Win Mag and 165 Partitions at 3250 fps...I blew chunks of that buck all over the landscape....he still covered about 60-70 yards before he tipped over.
But I have not seen a dramatic difference between anything of 30 cal or under on a standard case (270. 280, 06,7/08, 7x57, etc etc.) I guess my powers of observation must be suspect
"Perfect" is a personal thing when it comes to cartridges. But for me the 270 and 308 are as close to the mythical "perfect" as is possible with a brass cylinder and powder.
Both kick a little and kill a lot...
Absolutely correct,but the .308 is the "boring" one, because .270 fans are really sensitive and easy to screw with. (Watch for a new thread.)
The only thing worse than a liberal is a liberal that thinks they're a conservative.
DF: I am no gunwriter, and don't possess their knowledge on this stuff....Thanks but I figure I have about 1/4th JB's knowledge and experience....if that......I know nothing more than many more folks on here.
I just report what I have seen and had happen to me and others close to me....and that's all I really know.
I would LOVE to have the experience of guys like Johnny B, Phil, and others on here,but don't and never will.
�Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.�
O.W.
I've been thinking on that and subsequent comments by posters.
Very interesting statement that might make a good theme for us rifle loonies.
At least it could be used as an excuse for our never ending pursuit of new calibers, guns, etc. It's our imagination that renders the .270 "boring" and leads us onward to keep on and on "re-discovering" and attempting to "re-invent" what has been a staple of the gun world for many decades.
DF: I am no gunwriter, and don't possess their knowledge on this stuff....Thanks but I figure I have about 1/4th JB's knowledge and experience....if that......I know nothing more than many more folks on here.
I just report what I have seen and had happen to me and others close to me....and that's all I really know.
I would LOVE to have the experience of guys like Johnny B, Phil, and others on here,but don't and never will.
Bob and others, my brother's (I have three) and I have killed almost every big game animal in North America with the .270, and yes the right bullet and good shooting is key. For example, three male grizzlies, dozens of bull elk, several bull moose, assorted black bears and literally 100's of deer and antelope have fallen to the boring .270. Two of the brothers are(were) had core sheep hunters, the younger has two grand slams.(the desert's were killed in Mexico some years ago) Bullet choice for me is simple, Nosler Partition and I let the rifle tell me if it wants a 130 or 150gr. To be clear, I am currently hunting with a 280AI because I'm a looney not because it is much better that the great .270
Let's think a bit about some of what's being said here.....we will increase bore diameter .031,increase case capacity by 20-30 grains,bring velocities to around the same as a 270 with bullets weighing 30+ grains more, and then compare killing effectiveness,and therefore the 270 "sucks" and leaves ironclad deer rambling through the countryside leaking blood all over the place......something ain't right...
Ananlyze this......."I gotta go up in bore size,bullet weight,case capacity,and velocity to beat a 270.." Well, no shidt Dick Tracy!
I have read some really stupid shidt in my life but some of this stuff just takes the cake.
Do I think a 270 is as powerful as a 300 or 338 magnum? Of course not....
Do I think a 7 magnum shooting heavy 160 or 175 gr bullets is a step up from a 270? Yes,I do.
Do I think a 30/06 kills anything "better"? No...not until you get into the class of the very heaviest game (brown bear,Cape Buffalo,etc.)with 200-220 gr bullets,simply because the heavier bullets will penetrate better, and break heavy bones on such game better than a 270's lighter bullets.This is called common sense.
But do I think the 30/06 or 308 Winchester kills lesser game "better"? Nope.
A 7x57,7-08,280,284,264,etc etc.....any of them kill game "better"? Gimme a break....it isn't even worth discussing. Complete waste of time....
Second, no one mentions bullets .....
I think the reason some have problems with the 270 is that they use junk,thin jacketed,plastic tipped stuff under this "theory" of bullet blowup being the path to rapid kills with small bores.....well,maybe. I am still really conflicted on this notion,and think it has good application for very LR shooting....but under more conventional distances, I still like bullets of tougher construction.
Following that line of thinking, I have had no problems killing with any cartridge from a 257 Roberts through the 375H&H.If there was a "problem" (damn few)it was all placement....
I am mystified by the difficulty some folks have had killing animals with a 270 Winchester. I have had "zero" problems.I think the reason is that,almost from the start back in the 70's,I have fed 270's nothing but Partitions and Bitterroots.I have some recovered BBC's back here from 270's that killed game,that have broader frontal areas, and more retained weight,than 180 gr bullets fired into game from a 300 magnum....I don't give a flying rats ass about how good a bullet looks on a ballistic chart....I want to know results in an animal.I have noticed that if I use a bullet fully capable of reliably expanding,punching through a chest cavity and destroying vitals,and retaining enough weight to reliably break up bones on the offside,animals simply die.
All I know is I have never had these "mysterious" difficulties killing anything with a 270 at any distance or circumstance I have bumped into using these bullets.So I simply do not understand when a guy says a 270 sucks, but a 30/06 or 280 is hell on wheels.....I wonder if we hunt on the same planet for the same animals.
RinB on here has as much or more 270 experience in Africa(where I have not been yet)as anyone I know,except Johnny B.He won't talk about it but I will. He has killed over 200 head of African game from eland down with the 270 and 130 gr bullets;mostly Bitterroots, Barnes X, Swift S-co's and Aframes.He tells me of whacking a zebra with a 130 Aframe on the point of the shoulder quartering on with a 130 Aframe...the zebra collapsed in a heap,the bullet ranging back forward of the off side haunch,after breaking the shoulder.What's a zebra weigh? 500-700 pounds? Floored by a 270 and a great bullet? How do we reconcile this with notions of little does shrugging off hits from a 270?
He sends bullets over there for these African guys to test.....they say "Send more Barnes and Swift Aframes.....hold the Accubonds!" Mmmmm.
Another pal took his Dad and 12 year old son to Africa...all three spent 10 days knocking the snot out of kudu, gemsbuck,zebra,eland,and whatnot with 130 gr TTSX's from a 270 Winchester.
Reconcile this with half starved little deer running all over the place after a chest hit and it makes you wonder, what's the difference? Bullets .
I don't think the perfect hunting cartridge exists (unless it's the 375H&H because what is "perfect" will change with range, size of animal,impact velocity, bullet performance, etc.But the notion the 270 does not perform with anything else in its power class and powder capacity ....is silly.The notion that a 10 gr increase in bullet weight and increased diameter by .007 results in some "magic", is nonsense.Bullets,bullet construction, and placement are the key....not some silly notion about the headstamp being somehow inadequate.
As to paying a deposit, and taking a 270 on an important hunt beng out of the question? Gimme a break...what ridiculous nonsense.I have paid tens of thousands of my own money and put it on the line for important hunts and thrown a 270 on the plane. So have friends....and I would do it again tomorrow.
Here's the dirty little secret to killing game with a 270....use good bullets, and put them in the right place.
WOW, Great post Bob! Can you tie any of your roots back to JOC!!
I really do love your passion....AND choices in bullets.
I had an acquaintance of mine loose two deer this year via a combination of two things, shot them too far back and with a cheap C&C load....from a .270..
Naturally, the .270 took a bashing....but he forgot to mention in his "post hunt" conversations that he fell pretty hard along a creek one day and dinged his scope. And even after this, still did not go shoot to verify POI...
It's just simply EASIER for some people to blame something else!
Bought my first 270 this year( a Savage 111 in a birch stock) and killed my first ( .270) deer with it. Used 130gr Winchester Power Points. The first shot was a 1/4 ing shot that wasn't as angled as I'd hoped.It blew up the rumen and got some liver and the tip of the left lung.It made the deer sick enough that it stopped after about 50 yards and gave me a solid chest shot which dumped it on the spot. The odd thing was EVERYTHING in the abdomen was purple from being bloodshot.I was VERY impressed. I like the 270 ( so far)!
Until this year, I too have had bad luck with the .270. And I don't really know why. It certainly wasn't the bullet, at least in most instances.
The last one that I really remember well was with a 150 grain Core-Lokt roundnose. I double lunged a doe and she took off with no apparent signs of being hit. I wasn't sure I hit her except that I could not imagine missing at 125 yards and I was pretty sure I heard it hit as well. That doe ran about a quarter of a mile and laid up under a bush and died on her stomach, perfectly camoflauged as if bedded. If I hadn't known the area really well and pretty much known where the deer went, I would never have found her. In fact, it was still pure luck that I even saw her. I never found any blood.
Up until this year, I had never had a deer drop in its tracks with a .270 and I had never had one take more than two or three steps with a 30-06. Yeah, I know there is no reason it should be that way, but it was.
This year, I used some Hornady Gmax bullets and I got two instant drops with a .270. So, we'll see if that is the ticket.
Well I I keep hearing how great the 270 winchester is and I have to be honest and tell you that any deer hit(even in the right spot) has a big chance of running a ways or even being lost!Regardless of what is said about the 270 I have personally seen this happen and more than once .
Of course I have seen this happen with the 30-06,25-06,8x57 Mauser,280 Remington,7mm Remington Magnum,44 magnum from rifles and handguns,308 winchester,30-30 Winchester,7mm-08 Remington,300 Winchester ,300 Weatherby,243 Winchester,45-70 ,Blackpowder catridges etc etc. Point being that I dont expect a deer when shot to fall over drt every time and in fact tend to ecpect the deer to run a ways unless shot in the CNS or both shoulders broken! if they drop right there then great but not messed up about it at all. In fact I have seen deer go over 150 yards when hit in the lungs with a 30-06(160 long steps)and the lungs just poured out of the deer when gutted. But whatever if a person wants to believe a 30-06 drops deer better than a 270 fine that is what males the world go round(different oppinions.I just personally believe that there is not a nickels worth of difference between any of the catridges within reason. Shoot what you want based on accuracy,ammo availability(if you dont reload)The trajectory you need(or want)recoil,favorite rifle etc.Just dont be suprised when your favorite catridge lets one run aways every now and then and dont be suprised when your least favorite catridge drops them DRT occasionally ! Deer dont read these forums(say it aint so). There is a lot more rhyme and reason to how we discuss catridges and their performance on game than there will ever be in how the animals CONSISTANTLY react to different catridges.
Well, no shidt Dick Tracy!
because what is "perfect" will change with range, size of animal,impact velocity, bullet performance, etc.But the notion the 270 does not perform with anything else 
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