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#6134293 - 02/04/12 Drowning in waders.....  
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Brother_Bill Offline
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So as not to derail the other thread any further....


I wonder if these dummies at The World Conference of Drowning Prevention know anything about it?

http://www.worldconferenceondrownin...DP2011_A&O_McElroy_p305_Abstract.pdf

CMG 300 BP

#6134420 - 02/04/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Brother_Bill]  
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akjeff Offline
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Thanks Bill. My bad for dragging that out on the other thread. Good info there, and anyone who paid attention in physics class would get it. Sometimes confusing the naysayers with facts, don't seem to work. Either in person, or on the innernet.

Will likely be working in your country this summer, and would be happy to buy you a brewskie.

Jeff

#6134437 - 02/04/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Brother_Bill]  
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I don't know how many times I lost footing while fly fishing and when for a ride down steam in waders, and guess what I am still here. You put a belt around your middle. And guess what you get a little wet but you say pretty dry and you float. Of course with a fly Vest stuffed with stuff 90 % you don't use may make you a little top heavy and holding on to that fly rod and reel makes things a little interesting. All and all I was never any worst for wear except one day in Oct 1987, I slipped and got wet on my right side. No problem, it was 55 deg a had just hooked and landed the biggest hook jaw bitterroot brown trout on this stream I ever caught just about 20 inches. So I walked back a mile or so to my car and drove home, took a hot bath and thought nothing more about it, I came down with pneumonia and it dam near killed me. Had nothing to do with drowning in waders. The stream is called Merritt Brook and nice woodland stream in North Eastern CT. TU did a lot of work on it back then and we had great fishing for a few years then some wormers came along or I should say one guy and in three weeks he took out what it took us 10 years to build. Such is life. Hopper time was a blast down there. Most day you would never see another soul.


"Any idiot can face a crisis,it's the day-to-day living that wears you out."

Anton Chekhov


#6134438 - 02/04/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: akjeff]  
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Brother_Bill Offline
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Any time you are around, would be good to catch up....

Time it right and we'll go catch some kings!


#6134457 - 02/04/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: gmsemel]  
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Rolly Offline
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Gemsel,
Try doing your stunt in hip waders. That will give you a pucker factor like you have never had before. I nearly downed in hip waders 45 years ago and believe me, falling in with chest waders and a belt is not even in the same category. If you don't believe me, put on some hip waders and jump off a dock and see how well you can swim.


Rolly
Alpha

#6134469 - 02/04/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Brother_Bill]  
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akjeff Offline
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Sounds good. Will be in contact, when I head down. Been watching our web cams at the mountain top sites like Ratz, Tolstoi, etc....looks like you guys have had a bunch of snow this winter.

Jeff

#6134496 - 02/04/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Rolly]  
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ribka Offline
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The only time I almost drowned was when my drift boat ran into a sweeper in Jan. The tree had just fallen accross the river as I had fished this section many times

Temps were in the 20's . Boat went into the sweeper flipped and I was pulled under the tree in very strong current. I managed to kick my way out from under the submerged tree. All I could think is what a stupid way to die and how pissed off the wife would be if I died in this manner. Not wearing a PFD and no wader belt.Waders filled up with water and hypothermia starting to set in. Finally made it to shore and pulled myself up on bank. Dumbass for not
wearing a PFD and wader belt.


Have been swept off my feet fishing the surf in waders and the waders helped me stay afloat if wearing a wader belt.When weather is warm I practice swimming and staying afloat in my waders. I now always wear a PFD when I wade.

In the military took open water survival training and had to stay a float for an hour using clothes as flotation.

Obviously the big killer is hypothermia. I dive so might consider wearing a shortie dry suit when boating up in AK.


#6140376 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: ribka]  
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Ralphie Offline
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When I was a young kid my dad and I were fishing in Central Or. An old guy nearby fell in with chest waders and was near drowning when my dad pulled him out. My dad got pretty wet too, lots of water in his waders.

We saw that old guy a few times on the same river in the summer for years afterwards. Plus they used to send my folks Christmas cards too.

#6140745 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Ralphie]  
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rost495 Offline
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I don't know what the issue with getting wet in waders is vs hypo..... seems if you didn't have waders on you'd be just as wet.....

I dont' swim. I wear waders when running the airboat( no level floatation) but I wear a PFD and also keep them loose and no suspenders on etc... so I can get them off if needed.

Being that once you are in water you are somewhat bouyant, I dont really feel that waders is as big an issue as folks make them out to be.

Having taken water on with waders on before also, I"m always glad I have them as teh waders will allow the water to at least have a shot of warming to body temp, vs no other insulation, IE wet pants exposed to water and wind....


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
#6140977 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: rost495]  
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A friend of mine when he was 8yrs old watched his dad drown because of waders. While trout fishing a fast moving mountain stream he lost his footing. He did what he should've by staying on his back and keeping his feet pointed down stream until he would reach calmer water. The stream bed consisted of flat layers of rock. He went feet first under one of these layers,and of course underwater,that dead ended as most due. Of course the waders added who knows how much weight thus keeping him from even having a chance of getting out.

Bravo

#6141189 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: EZEARL]  
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rost495 Offline
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Hope I never have to test it, but there is a reason I'm not in waders without PFD on...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
#6141197 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: rost495]  
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rost495 Offline
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After finally reading the link... who'da thunk it, like i actually figured, water is neutral... in that instance anyway...


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
#6141222 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Brother_Bill]  
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1minute Offline
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I've found waders a mild hinderance, but have no trouble at all treading water or swimming. Might take me 400 yrds or so to make the bank. I had to go in once in a coastal Oregon stream when a buddy did not close the clip for my drift boat and shoved it out from landing. Also had to swim about 80 yds across the Deschutes when a buddy let a raft get away while I was fishing. I do not do high risk wading though when the water is less than 40 degrees F. I think in most instances panic or a desire to not let some piece of equipment go is the real killer. In a true emergency, even my finest rods would become wading staffs.

It might of helped that I did all the Navy mandated aircraft escape and survival training as a youngster. Used to make a few extra bucks taking the test for crew that were less than stellar swimers. One simply answered to the correct name when they were taking roll.

I have had two or three scares where I've had a foot get wedged in a crevice while wading. In two of those instances, I had to unlace the boot to extract my foot. I got wet, but did not have to fully submerge in those instances. Another option would have been to simply stand there and wave down a floater or jet sled for help. Mother nature can indeed build some ingenious traps.

The modern neoprene waders are actually pretty good flotation devices. I can wade much deeper now in fast water with the newer fabric systems.

Last edited by 1minute; 02/06/12.

1Minute
#6141280 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: 1minute]  
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When I was a conservation officer, one of the items on the training agenda was water survival while wearing waders and/or hip boots, both with and without a PFD. Fortunately, the only time I had to swim while wearing either was in a nice warm pool during this training.

If you raise your knees while floating on your back, or raise your feet while floating on your stomach, the waders will trap enough air to actually help you stay afloat, or at least not be a hindrance to flotation.

If the waders fill with water, you can still tread water and float, as they become neutrally bouyant. Swimming becomes more difficult, slower and more tiring, but is definitely possible. Climbing out of the water with waders full is significantly more difficult due to the weight of the water. As stated above, a belt worn outside the waders will help to retain air.

Rough water would make it less fun...and panic could be fatal, but if you keep your head, you have a good chance to survive. Wearing a PFD makes a big difference, of course.

Last edited by wildhobbybobby; 02/06/12.

Life is like a purple antelope on a field of tuna fish...
#6141457 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: rost495]  
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ironbender Online happy
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Jeff- Do I recall you mentioning you cannot swim? Or am I thinking of someone else.

Being able to swim and not being afraid of water counts for much, IMO.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
#6141582 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: ironbender]  
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Calvin Offline
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Most people freak the heck out when they think they are going to drown. It's one of the worst feelings if a person is not used to it. I've had water inside waders before, and it feels different. I could see how unknowing people would panic and kill themselves by freaking out.


Fully Guided Salmon and Halibut Charters
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#6141613 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Calvin]  
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Yeah, I had both legs fill up one time and the weight was staggering, literally.

#6141644 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Maverick940]  
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Calvin Offline
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Their isn't any added "weight", which is the point of this thread. It just feels different, and people panic and die because they think they are getting pulled under.


Fully Guided Salmon and Halibut Charters
www.alaskawideopen.com
#6141670 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Calvin]  
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Theoretic as that may be, I can move about much easier without water inside than I could when it overflowed the top. In the case that happened to me when I was young and unaware, they filled and toppled me over and I'll tell you, trying to right myself was quite the task. I was very lucky to not drown. A friend of mine who worked with ADF&G did drown one year (1985 or 1986) in the same river, when he fell over and couldn't right himself. Theoretically there isn't any additional "weight" per se, but try it sometime and see just how difficult it is to regain your footing.

#6141722 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Maverick940]  
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I think we're discussing apples and oranges here. Swamping a skiff in the saltwater in SE Alaska with waders on, and falling into a fast moving river with waders on are two different animals.

If you fall into the ocean you're not trying to stand up, you're trying to float. if you fall into a river you're trying to stand up and get to shore.


Deal with it.
#6141753 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: AKBoater]  
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Yes, it's definitely apples and oranges. Even still and not to be antagonistic about it, I would rather not be wearing hipwaders or chestwaders when going into green water off the Alaska coast, even in the best of weather, let alone a rough sea. But, that's me.

#6141756 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Maverick940]  
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To quote a fellow poster...

Originally Posted by Maverick940
That's interesting anecdotal information, for sure.


The idea that a story of some riverside folly involving waders, would lend credence to the long standing (and debunked) myth that wearing waders in a boat is inherently dangerous; is kind of humorous don’t you think?

Last edited by Brother_Bill; 02/06/12. Reason: punktuashun
#6141810 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Calvin]  
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Originally Posted by Calvin
Their isn't any added "weight", which is the point of this thread. It just feels different, and people panic and die because they think they are getting pulled under.


Yep. You were a Coastie IIRC? You guys did drownproofing I'm sure? Not having a panic attack is job one.

#6141891 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Take_a_knee]  
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Maverick940 Offline
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That, right there, is number one. The ocean is a powerful creature.

I understand the fact that water-filled footgear isn't going to "drag you under".

However, the ballast that water-filled footgear creates makes it much more difficult to keep your head above the surface, because your center-of-gravity is changed.

In rough seas, that "theory of relativity" makes it all the more difficult to maintain and sustain your bouyancy and at the same time, battle the elements (wind, water, waves, current, precipitation, whatever).

In the years when I was on Kodiak and the Gulf of Alaska I wore hipboots when motoring clients and myself via skiff to hunting spots. Didn't like it too much, but I chose to do it.

Luckily, I never ended up in the water. Caution and wise decisions prevented that from ever happening.

#6141951 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Maverick940]  
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Originally Posted by Maverick940
Caution and wise decisions prevented that from ever happening.


Good point.

Caution and wise decisions will prevent just about anything from happening. Caution and wise decisions will keep you in the boat, regardless of your choice of boots vs chest waders.

I'll stand by my assertion that wearing chest waders in a boat is no more dangerous than not.......

#6141987 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Brother_Bill]  
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"...in a boat...." is the operative term.

#6142056 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Maverick940]  
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Brother_Bill Offline
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LOL...

Touché

#6142067 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Maverick940]  
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A friend and I got tossed out of a zodiac into Skilak lake one December day. Full waders, wading jacket zipped up tight, and gloves on. Had to swim about 100ft back to the boat because the knucklehead driving it was pretty balled up trying to right himself. I floated like a cork and looked like a surface torpedo headed in for the kill I was swimming so fast. Got back to the boat, wet up to my elbows and across my shoulders, but no worse for the wear. Was reminded of a few lessons that day. Always wear the PFD was #1. Didnt have it on and the shore looked a long [bleep] ways off!

#6142096 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Ptarmigan]  
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Maverick940 Offline
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Originally Posted by ptarmigan
A friend and I got tossed out of a zodiac into Skilak lake one December day. Full waders, wading jacket zipped up tight, and gloves on. Had to swim about 100ft back to the boat because the knucklehead driving it was pretty balled up trying to right himself. I floated like a cork and looked like a surface torpedo headed in for the kill I was swimming so fast. Got back to the boat, wet up to my elbows and across my shoulders, but no worse for the wear. Was reminded of a few lessons that day. Always wear the PFD was #1. Didnt have it on and the shore looked a long [bleep] ways off!


Good deal. You did well and we're lucky. That lake and it's neighbor have killed a helluva a lot of people.

#6142143 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Maverick940]  
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We were lucky! All we did was change out shirts, then headed down the river for some killer late season Rainbow fishing. Was amazed how little water got in, but I wasnt screwin around getting back to the boat either. That lake has an evil side for sure.

#6142151 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Brother_Bill]  
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Using logic and fact to make your point on the internet is futile, Bill! grin

I'm not even going to make an attempt.

Jeff

#6142185 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: akjeff]  
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Slow day at work.....

#6142204 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Brother_Bill]  
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Just got your drift.....I'm a little slow! smile

Jeff

Last edited by akjeff; 02/06/12.
#6142361 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: akjeff]  
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(grin)

#6142378 - 02/06/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Brother_Bill]  
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If your waders cause you to drown, you deserve it.

#6143432 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: akjeff]  
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Originally Posted by akjeff
Just got your drift.....I'm a little slow! smile

Jeff


You crack me up, Jeff. Thanks.

#6143577 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: n007]  
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Originally Posted by n007
If your waders cause you to drown, you deserve it.


I'll be sure to tell my friend that. Should make his day.

#6144275 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: EZEARL]  
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OK, I'll have to show my stupidity... I know, I live in Kansas
where most of what we call rivers are dry or very shallow with sandy bottoms. And what few lakes we have you can see across,
SO....tell me why one would be wearing wadders of any type while fishing from a boat ??
I have a 14 foot Jon boat and a 22 foot pontoon boat. Don't own any wadders !

It's OK to laugh....Iam OLD!

Rabbitdog

Last edited by Rabbitdog; 02/07/12.

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#6145548 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Rabbitdog]  
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A lot of the times the boat is just a means of transportation.

You're still going to have to get out of the boat to hunt or fish from the bank. Chances are pretty good if you don't have high boots or waders on your'e gonna get wet.

Also you might be crossing creeks to get to another spot.

And finally, they keep you warm!


#6145606 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: KCBighorn]  
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It'sa RAT 3-point.

K-She gobbles knobs for loot(as per Her request!).

"Wadders" are what Maverick receives in her Happy Endings,between her cheek and gum.

#6145911 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Boxer]  
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if you do fall in, just remember cotton kills

#6145971 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: rost495]  
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I'm thinking the big problem with waders is being in flowing drink, along with hypothermia if far from help.


The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.

If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
#6146593 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: eyeball]  
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Originally Posted by eyeball
I'm thinking the big problem with waders is being in flowing drink, along with hypothermia if far from help.


If the waders fit properly, and you're using the belt, I don't see what the issue would be in moving water?

And if I were at risk of being hypothermic, I'd give my left nut to have the luxury of being in the thickest neoprene waders known to mankind! Get wet with no waders, and unless you start a fire pronto, you will soon be dead! BTDT. Went for a swim in Klutina lake, and if my partners and I hadn't the ability to start a fire, we would have croaked before the sun set that evening. While standing around the fire naked, and drying our clothes, I can assure that all of us would have loved to have had a pair of chest high neoprenes to at least wear while the clothes dried.

Jeff

#6146849 - 02/07/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: akjeff]  
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kk alaska Offline
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Eagle River Alaska
I grew up on a river where the lawn stopped the river started we often put on a set of hip boots and scuttled down the river.

My hunting partner did not show for 5 days on a moose hunt he had our heater for our tent! Stayed below 20 above on a fall moose hunt. Could not put leather boots on they were frozen, stayed in my hip boots all the time and did quite well.

If you wear waders or hip boots in flowing water you should know how to use them if you go down. Tried to go swimming in Beluga LK late July hot day, and I was not up for it. Could not get past waist high. If float plane went down don,t know if I could have got to shore.


kk alaska

Alaska 7 months of winter then 5 months of tourists
#6151918 - 02/09/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: ironbender]  
Joined: Jan 2005
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rost495 Offline
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rost495  Offline
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La Grange, TX
Originally Posted by ironbender
Jeff- Do I recall you mentioning you cannot swim? Or am I thinking of someone else.

Being able to swim and not being afraid of water counts for much, IMO.


Yep you got it. I've been to lessons many years, cannot swim unless I have fins on.

I don't overly care for water really. I'm totally respectful of it though and most laugh at me when I park the airboat and walk back to where we will be shooting ducks, ankle to shin deep water in the dark and take my PFD off and stash it before shooting light...

And the PFD has a whistle, SPOT, orange vest, flares, and flashing beacon attached to or inside pockets....

What can I say? And I'm talking myself into water rescue training for the fire department.....

Dumb or not?


We can keep Larry Root and all his idiotic blabber and user names on here, but we can't get Ralph back..... Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, over....
#6152590 - 02/09/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: rost495]  
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Reloader7RM Offline
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Reloader7RM  Offline
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NW La.
I hit a stump once while perch fishing in a lake during the winter. Fell out of the boat(about 8' deep) with no PFD and was wearing rubber knee boots. I'm a good swimmer, but will never forget that cold water and how my knee boots felt like they were pulling me down as I kicked(tried to swim like normal). Luckily in the heat of the moment I didn't panic, just quit kicking and doggie paddled with my arms to safety. After that day I've had a whole different outlook on wearing knee boots or hip waders in the boat w/o a PFD.

#6152753 - 02/09/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: rost495]  
Joined: Dec 2003
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ironbender Online happy
Campfire Oracle
ironbender  Online Happy
Campfire Oracle

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Posts: 53,609
In the shadow of the Kenai Mtn...
Not meant as a knock, Jeff, and hope you didn't take it as such.

I think being able to swim changes a person's mindset and allows a certain degree of confidence. The flip side of course is that it can lead to a cavalier attitude sometime too.

That was my only point.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
#6159918 - 02/10/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: Maverick940]  
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MarlinMark Offline
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MarlinMark  Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted by Maverick940
Yes, it's definitely apples and oranges. Even still and not to be antagonistic about it, I would rather not be wearing hipwaders or chestwaders when going into green water off the Alaska coast, even in the best of weather, let alone a rough sea. But, that's me.


That's not smart...removing your clothes and using them for floatation is the right move. A hip boat properly used would be like a big throwable pfd.


"It's not the arrow, it's the Indian."
#6160179 - 02/10/12 Re: Drowning in waders..... [Re: MarlinMark]  
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Maverick940 Offline
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Maverick940  Offline
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Alaska
Originally Posted by MarlinMark
Originally Posted by Maverick940
Yes, it's definitely apples and oranges. Even still and not to be antagonistic about it, I would rather not be wearing hipwaders or chestwaders when going into green water off the Alaska coast, even in the best of weather, let alone a rough sea. But, that's me.


That's not smart...removing your clothes and using them for floatation is the right move. A hip boat properly used would be like a big throwable pfd.


Huh?

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