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I've never been a semi-auto fan but I'm starting to see that they offer some advantages in some shooting sports, with light recoil being one of them. I've read reports of the 1100s running for 1/2 million rounds when maintained. Sometimes I run across really nice 1100s that are cheap. Do the new Italian autos really offer anything over the 1100s?


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The Beretta and Benalli semi-autos are the "best in the world."

They are more dependable, require less maintenance and most now come with spacers to adjust cast and comb height.

Remington got left in their dust years ago.

Last edited by battue; 02/17/12.

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Will they run for 1/2 million rounds? Are they softer shooting?


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after using a benalli i never looked back. fantastic at reliability & comfort--one of my buddies shot hogs from a gov. heli for years & said the benalli lasted 3 times longer than remington.--cranky 72

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The Italian gun's, like Beretta, are great but nothing fits me like a 1100. Its all about the fit brother!


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Originally Posted by Swampman1
Do the new Italian autos really offer anything over the 1100s?


The newer designs are much lighter, but you said you're using it for shooting sports, not hunting, so that shouldn't matter in that case.

Recoil-wise, I don't think that extra weight on the 1100s helps much. A few years back I switched from an 1100 to a Benelli M2, and I was shooting a bit so could make a pretty good comparison. I decided that (using target and light game loads) the Benelli kicked me less. The difference could have been the modern recoil pad and reduction features, as the 1100 had an old Pachmayr pad from the 60s on it, so YMMV.

Reliability wise, using the same cheapest-possible factory ammo, I'd say the 1100 rarely if ever gagged, but the Benelli occasionally would. Again, maybe it got the worst of the ammo, I don't know.

Since you can probably get used 1100s at half the price of used modern B-guns, I think the questions are really moot. They'll work, and at a half million rounds of ammo, the initial cost of the gun is beyond irrelevant anyway.

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Half Million? I doubt it and have never seen any that could prove they have come close. Do know a few that have shot 100,000 plus with minimal maintenance. Things will break, but they are easily replaced with readily available parts.

Over 20years a half million comes out to 25,000 rounds per year. Shooters who reach that average are few and far apart.

Today, most high volume semi-auto users are shooting the Italian offerings for a reason. Go to a large SC shoot and Beretta and Benelli will be everywhere. 1100s will be an oddity. There is a reason, and that is the 1100 will not hold up. Americans would like to shoot an American offering, but Remington can't keep up and the "shooters" have come to realize it.

Softer shooting? Depends, they all can be made to shoot soft.

Last edited by battue; 02/17/12.

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Originally Posted by passport
The Italian gun's, like Beretta, are great but nothing fits me like a 1100. Its all about the fit brother!


I dig your shotgun enthusiasm Passport, but watch this and get back to me about fit.


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Now admittedly these boys do shoot a few from the shoulder, but then again sometimes they don't. grin

It's about confidence, practice and eyes combined with a fit that is close.



Last edited by battue; 02/17/12.

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Dad used to shoot an 1100. He refers to it as the Jam-a-matic. Soured him on auto's and he switched to 870's for years. Then brother in law and I bought 391's. He shot ours and went and got his own. That was 8 years ago. He commented a couple years ago "and to think, there are guys out there that are still shooting 1100's and 870's and really think they've got something".

We've all still got 870's, and they do get used from time to time for posterity's sake. No 1100's. The 391's are the go to guns though.

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The link below to Randy Wakeman's site doesn't claim 1/2 million rounds through one gun, but 100-million rounds over 18-years through some 150 rentals is dang impressive:

Quote
The Benelli Montefeltro / M2 line is the most durable autoloader in times past, and is the gun that Zeke Hayes would buy tomorrow for himself. The Beretta 390 is in the same league, with a bit more cleaning required as you'd expect of any gas gun and perhaps the occasional broken or cracked action rod to replace.


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Do you want to save pennies now and spend dollars later? If so buy the 1100. Me I will pay now and save later. Thats why I own more then one Benelli M1 Super 90. Wish they never changed it up, but just like Beretta they have to continuely change things.


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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by passport
The Italian gun's, like Beretta, are great but nothing fits me like a 1100. Its all about the fit brother!


I dig your shotgun enthusiasm Passport, but watch this and get back to me about fit.


Trick shooting is cool but in the end for the other 99% of the people who shoot a shotgun its still about fit. The other things like confidence, practice and eyes are a big part of it too not doubt but there hard to get with a poor fitting gun.

Now if all you want to do is hip shoot thats another topic all together! smile


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If they don't have a solid repeatable mount then all the fitting in the world isn't going to matter. Get the basics down first then gun fit and you'll be on the fast track.


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If I-and most of us-could get that Copperfield fellow to make my barrel disappear we would all probably shoot better. We want to look at it and it screws things up. Everyone says shotgun shooting is an eye/hand game. Most of us make it an eye/barrel/hand game and when we look at the barrel, even for a moment the barrel slows down and we lose the eye/hand relationship.

Those kids have essentially taken the barrel out of the picture and they are shooting on instinct and just looking at the target. When one does that fit becomes less important and almost irrelevant. The shot naturally goes where the eyes are looking. Do you really think fit is relevant when the guy in the second video is breaking clays when the shotgun is pointing backwards on the crook of his arm in the second video? Nope he has trained his hands to do what his eyes tell him.

No doubt fit is important. It gives the head a stable platform. The reason those kids can do what they do is their heads essentially stay rock still when they make the shot.The don't need a stock to do it for them. Do that and look at nothing but the target and it doesn't matter if the comb and heel are xxxx inches.

The eyes will then lead the hands. Easier said than done and I wish I could.

Addition: Hitting a baseball, we don't look at the bat. Catching a ball, we don't look at the glove. Hitting a tennis ball, we don't look at the racket. Yet when shooting a shotgun, most of us look at the barrel and that is where most of our biggest problems come from, not gun fit.




Last edited by battue; 02/17/12.

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The Italian autos are good shotguns that offer lighter weight with shims and spacers for a custom fit and most of them will also handle 3" & 31/2" mag. shells. Most 1100s don't and the ones that do only shoot 3" mags. All at a considerably higher price than a used or new 1100.

I've owned both a Beretta 391 and a Benelli Montefeltro. I also own 2 1100s, a 12 and a 20. I've owned them for over 30 years and they are used for clays & hunting. I'm not a high volume shooter but shoot skeet, trap & sporting clays at least once a month. They've had plenty of rounds through them during this time and still work fine. I sold the 391 and the Benelli for a decent price. There wasn't anything wrong with them but since I didn't shoot them any better than the 1100s I took the money.

IMO a decent used 1100 is worth a try if you don't shoot 3&1/2" magnum loads. If you don't like it resell it and you won't be out too much. If the used 1100 works out for you you've saved a considerable amount of money.

I've found both types of guns to be reliable for the average shooter if properly maintained. How well you shoot them usually gets down to who's shooting not what they're shooting.

Last edited by 43Shooter; 02/17/12.
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There is nothing to maintain with a Benelli M1 Super90! smile


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My experience is probably abnormal, but I got my 1100 a little over 15 years ago and up until last year shot a lot of practice, every league, the 12ga, and doubles events with it. In the 15 years I've put 2 gas rings, 2 rubber rings, an action spring, and 1 lifter release latch(not sure what it's actually called!). I don't think that's too bad... Maybe with a Benelli you would have had to do any of that, I just couldn't get used to them. I'm not sure why I never shot the 391 more. Probably should have... I just used it for pheasants.

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Lets see over 30K thru it zero parts replaced and clean it only when it gets wet. That is pretty maintenance free to me.


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For sure. They're reliable as hell... I shot one for a while to see if I could get used to it. I don't really like to clean them like I should, so I really wanted it to work for me...

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The gold standard in gas guns in the past 15 years is the Beretta, beginning with 303, then 390 and now 391. Agree w/ Battue, Remington has been left in Beretta's wake.

Remington was in lead, arguably, 30 years ago with the 1100. The gun balances well, is generally reliable (keep some "O" rings in your wallet). It's just been outpaced.

Some might argue that the Winchester Super X Model 1 is the finest gas gun of all time. I think I like it better than these others, but anyone who shoots one much has already had the overhaul kit installed. Then they run forever, or so I'm told.

To recoil operated guns, in practical terms, the Benelli has no peer. Apparent recoil slightly more than a gas gun, but ultra reliable.

That said, I'm a sop for tradition, and I'll take my old Browning Auto Five over all of them.

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The Super X Model 1 was a fantastic shotgun. Have shot them extensively and still own three. However, they will break when pounded hard and today parts become an issue. A bolt cracked on one: Expensive to replace and yes the buffer was in good shape. A trigger pin broke on another. The magazine tube on the originals will corrode rather quickly and should be replaced with the stainless option available from nu-line.

Shot an 1100 a good bit also and one day the magazine tube let go from the receiver and left me with the action and barrel in my right hand and the for-end and magazine tube in my left. Jams were common.

Really like the Super X Model 1, but when it comes to hard use the Beretta and Benalli will outrun them and when problems do occur the fix is relatively easy. Have also had a Beretta 391 a few years back that was fussy and knew of some others. However, for the most part it is a thing of the past with the newer offerings.


Last edited by battue; 02/19/12.

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I have owned a SX-M1 since I bought it new in 1976, replaced the bolt buffer last year (old one was brittle and chipping out little hunks of plastic), own a M-2 Benelli and it is the easiest semi-auto to break down and clean I have ever had my hands on. My favorite is the Browning Auto-5, own two now and have owned two in the past I no longer own - I just cannot beat them for a great fit. Never owned a REM 1100, but did own a Sportsman 58, same fit, a decent gun but not as reliable as the others (to include the 1100).


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Give me easy access to parts and I would still be shooting the Super X1 for clays. Heavy for long days in the field, but they were solid and relatively simple in operation and would feed on just about anything you gave them.

Winchester at one time made a shell which I think was called the "Feather" and the velocity was around 980FPS. The Super X1 would even work with them. Slowly for sure, but still work it did.


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Shot my Benelli M1 Super 90 today. First registered targets of the year. Haven't shot since Aug outside of bird hunting. I SUCKED!


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I've been practicing, you better kick it up. grin


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Yeah well I am hoping to be in the acadamy this spring/summer so might not be shooting to much sporting this year. I am canidate #1 right now for one department. Keeping my fingers crossed!


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It's going to happen, I'm sure of it. wink


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I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin

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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin


LMAO


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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin






Peta probably foot the bill for the 1100s....


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Originally Posted by battue
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin






Peta probably foot the bill for the 1100s....


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I've had a Remington 1100 in constant use since 1982 and an 11-87 since "87" and neither has had a glitch. All original parts and they shoot as if they were new. I've shot trap, skeet, sporting clays, upland birds, waterfowl, deer... I would take my 11-87 in the field before I'd take any other shotgun. I've read article after article on the South American dove hunts where they use Rem 11-87s and Beretta 391s. I think the Rems kick softer and have better lines. It's been called the best pointing gun ever made. I have the Field and Stream with the 50 greatest guns ever made in the reading room, and the 1100 is there. The 391 is also. I can buy a near mint 1100 for $400 in 12 gauge, 11-87 Premier for $500 to $600. I have 2 friends who spent over $1,000 on Benellis this bird season and they like them. I offered to let them shoot my 11-87, which I think points better and I know kicks less. Neither wanted to after spending the $$$. I'll shoot mine until I can no longer lift them.


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That's because you keep them clean. Our 4-H Shooting Sports club - trap - has had five 1100's in 12 and 20 youth for 14 seasons now. We got a couple 11-87 youth models a few years ago. All function reliably, the only breakdown was a fluke gas ring problem that Remington promptly fixed. Otherwise all original parts. I think I replaced only one of those O-rings last year, it had gotten hard from the heat. In fact I was drawn into the club because they were having problems with reliability and excessive O-ring destruction. It was all in the routine maintenance.

The 1100 handles OK for me, there are others I like better. But they work.

Recoil comes in three impulses, the largest being around 50% if I remember correctly. I don't think you can do much better, but stock fit, recoil pad technology, and technique contribute to felt recoil.


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I have shot 1100's since the late 70's, they are soft kickers. It is not a shot gun that you can just shoot and put away, you have to maintain it, no big deal.

The Beretta Extrema has the same fit as the 1100, I do not know about the Extrema II. The Beretta Extrama is a gas operated shotgun and you can shoot buck shot loads one handed.

Even the Beretta 390's do not kick much at all, hard to believe.

You can shoot the heck out of the Beretta's and never clean them, they will make you fall in love with a shotgun if you are recoil sensitive or shoot a lot of heavy loads.

On the other hand, the Benelli is a hard kicker, I will never own another. Benelli's are not gas operated. I had a Super Black Eagle I that turned my arm green on dove loads...Super black eagle 1...never again.

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Originally Posted by rob p
I've had a Remington 1100 in constant use since 1982 and an 11-87 since "87" and neither has had a glitch. All original parts and they shoot as if they were new. I've shot trap, skeet, sporting clays, upland birds, waterfowl, deer... I would take my 11-87 in the field before I'd take any other shotgun. I've read article after article on the South American dove hunts where they use Rem 11-87s and Beretta 391s. I think the Rems kick softer and have better lines. It's been called the best pointing gun ever made. I have the Field and Stream with the 50 greatest guns ever made in the reading room, and the 1100 is there. The 391 is also. I can buy a near mint 1100 for $400 in 12 gauge, 11-87 Premier for $500 to $600. I have 2 friends who spent over $1,000 on Benellis this bird season and they like them. I offered to let them shoot my 11-87, which I think points better and I know kicks less. Neither wanted to after spending the $$$. I'll shoot mine until I can no longer lift them.


That is why Remington is now offering a 1300 dollar shotgun that copies Benelli Technology... Nothing wrong with an 1100 or 11/87 but it is not in the realm of a serious gun like a Beretta or Benelli

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Beretta and Benelli are not even close to having the same technology, like comparing a poodle to a pit bull.

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My 1100 has been in use for 30 years, and my 11-87 for 25 without a single issue. They have been widely recognized as the softest shooting most pointable shotguns ever made. I stated that the Beretta 391 is also recognized for it's ability as they are the two guns of choice for 1000 plus bird a day wing shooting outfitters down in South America. I've never, in 30 years of shooting heard one single complaint about Remington 1100s or ll-87s until they started building them off site. The Sportsman series made for Dicks, Walmart, and mass market have had problems and I don't recommend them to anyone. The 1100 and Premier 11-87 have excellent reputations.


By the way, how a gun shoots or doesn't shoot based upon how often you clean it is kind of ridiculous. We are not in combat. I clean every gun I own every time I use it. I paid good money for them and want them to last a lifetime.


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Originally Posted by keith
Beretta and Benelli are not even close to having the same technology, like comparing a poodle to a pit bull.


Who said they were ? two polar opposites in desing but they have a proven sturdy design, outstanding workmanship and need minimum maintenance and handle beautifully. I have owned a lot of semi-autos from about every manufacturer. I have a Beretta 390 and a Benelli M2. I sold a Montefeltro 20 a few months back which was a huge mistake.

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Originally Posted by rob p
My 1100 has been in use for 30 years, and my 11-87 for 25 without a single issue. They have been widely recognized as the softest shooting most pointable shotguns ever made. I stated that the Beretta 391 is also recognized for it's ability as they are the two guns of choice for 1000 plus bird a day wing shooting outfitters down in South America. I've never, in 30 years of shooting heard one single complaint about Remington 1100s or ll-87s until they started building them off site. The Sportsman series made for Dicks, Walmart, and mass market have had problems and I don't recommend them to anyone. The 1100 and Premier 11-87 have excellent reputations.


By the way, how a gun shoots or doesn't shoot based upon how often you clean it is kind of ridiculous. We are not in combat. I clean every gun I own every time I use it. I paid good money for them and want them to last a lifetime.


Rob I had a sporting clays 12 gauge 2 years ago that had absolutely the most beautiful wood on a shotgun ..outstanding. I ordered it thru my local dealer , when it came in the rear checkerimg diamonds had not been cut. I called Remington and they sent me the most gorgeous foreend and buttstock one can imagine. That is one I should have kept. That mistake will not repeat itself.

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I have never been to Argentina but know of a few outfitters there all use Benelli's. I have shot in Mexico and have never seen or heard of any outfitter there that uses Remingtons. All I have seen or heard of is Benelli's and Beretta's. I am sure some small volume outfitters may use Remingtons but they are without a doubt at a disadvantage and minority.

As to cleaning, I basically never clean my Benelli's. I keep water off them and shoot the hell out of them. Try that with a Remington!


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Have known at least 20 individuals who went to Argentina and used the house guns. 12 and in many cases 20g Beretta's were the offerings.

Go to a heavily used SC course that offers shotguns for rent-like 30 to 40-and see what you get. Then ask them why there are none or very few Remington 1100s.


Addition: Not sure about trap or skeet, but in SC competition you are allowed two malfunctions at which time they let you shoot the targets again. After the third it is a lost bird each time. Nice to not have to worry if your shotgun has to be spotlessly clean to keep working. Especially when you may have to shoot 200 plus shells in a day and cleaning time is at a premium.

However, back to the question. If Remington 1100s are as good or better than the Beretta/Benelli, how come they are not even close to being as popular with the shooters who burn more than a few primers each year or does first hand experience account for little?

Last edited by battue; 02/20/12.

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I am intrested in what makes a 1100 point so well. Does it point the best for all size and body shapes? Are beretta and Benelli barrels bent or something? Oh and like Battue said if they are the best pointing guns why don't you see them on the sporting clays courses? I can name more then a few in the top 25 sporting clays All-American list that shoot Beretta's and can't think of one in the top 100 that shoot a Remington. Whats say you?


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MCH I have to agree for me they point great as a field shotgun. The 12s are too heavy for me in the uplands, but the 20 and 28 I find nice.

All that being said, and depending on what one considers a good pointer, reliability is still the question. 10 to 20 thousand rounds a year is where the race starts and Remington 1100s of recent vintage can't compete and why for the most part they don't.

Some will say they don't shoot that much. Doesn't change the fact which one will with the least problems.

Last edited by battue; 02/20/12.

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Originally Posted by MontanaCreekHunter
I am intrested in what makes a 1100 point so well. Does it point the best for all size and body shapes?
I can only say they don't 'point' all that well for me.. smile I tried one for 5 shells at the trap range and missed all of 'em.. MUST have been the gun, naturally.. laugh laugh
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Are beretta and Benelli barrels bent or something? Oh and like Battue said if they are the best pointing guns why don't you see them on the sporting clays courses? I can name more then a few in the top 25 sporting clays All-American list that shoot Beretta's and can't think of one in the top 100 that shoot a Remington. Whats say you?
I would bet that part (emphasis there) of the reason it's not known as a true competition gun.. And those who compete look down on anyone who would dare to show up with a common Remington...

I ran into that snobbery a few times years ago when I shot in ATA tournaments.. If you didn't carry a 'P' or 'K' gun, you wouldn't get so much as the time of day.. That was a big part of the reason I quit shooting in ATA events.. That, and the games these fools would play with squad pairings, 'laying in the weeds' with shooting a lower score on purpose.. Who needs it..


Besides, I have tons more fun, spend a LOT less, and win more often in turkey shoots.. YMMV..


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My only experience with an 11-87 is the last I'll have with one, and that was 21 years ago. A pheasant hunt, it was raining, and the lodge where we stayed had a couple new loaner 11-87s, not Wally World specials. I took one to save my double from a rainy morning (still regret doing so), and it turned out to be a tremendous morning for birds and dogs, but I couldn't cut a feather.

Frustrated, I shot into a dirt bank about 25 yards away, and found my trouble...it hit about 2' below point of aim (looking along a flat rib). I thought maybe I'd flinched, tried again, found I hadn't - same POI. On my shorthair's next point, I pulled unnaturally above the bird and killed it. Did that again, same technique. The barrel looked straight, but sure didn't shoot that way; I couldn't get rid of it fast enough. That, and it handled with the grace of a 2x4. I suspect it had a poor cut choke that threw the charge low, but who knows?

The 11-87 does not have the same feel to me as the 1100 either, as I usually find them agreeable and still have a fairly light one for kids to shoot. Dunno on whether the action is more reliable, and I'll trust the opinion of those with more experience than I on that.

As others have said here, what I do know is that Remingtons of any ilk are pretty scarce on target courses these days, but you see lots of Berettas.

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Originally Posted by Redneck
I would bet that part (emphasis there) of the reason it's not known as a true competition gun.. And those who compete look down on anyone who would dare to show up with a common Remington...



Would be the exception from what I've seen and the AHs quickly rise to the surface.

Beretta 390s series shotguns are by far the common shotguns of SC and have more in common with an 1100 than a Perazzi. In 15 or so years of shooting SC have yet to here any mention anothers shotgun in a derogatory way. With the exception of those that pimp them to the point of being ugly. Which is done for the most part on the Perazzi and Krieghoffs.

One Ohio fellow can beat most all but the best with an 870pump, and none look down on him for using one.


Last edited by battue; 02/20/12.

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Originally Posted by battue
Nice to not have to worry if your shotgun has to be spotlessly clean to keep working. Especially when you may have to shoot 200 plus shells in a day and cleaning time is at a premium.

They don't have to be spotlessly clean to shoot well over 200 shells, believe me. You just have to know how to clean them. wink Not being a wise guy here. Ferinstance a common problem I've seen is carbon buildup in the gas ring which eats O-rings. Often it's smooth and looks like blued metal so you have to know what you're looking for. And it takes a lot of shooting for the carbon to build up that much. A few twists of a gas ring brush during routine cleaning prevents buildup but how many do that.

I wouldn't select an 1100 for class and there are shotguns that handle (for me anyway), three times better but at three times the cost. But for general use the 1100 is a pretty good deal.


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BTW, one of my shooters took first place in the state 4-H trap shoot, junior division, with one of those trashy 11-87's.


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Which explains a lot.
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I was the field boy for a trap and skeet range, and shot 8 boxes of shells every Saturday, reloaded them Saturday night and shot them again Sunday morning. That's 400 rounds a week, 20,000 a year from the time I was in Junior High school to the time I went to college. I tried out for the Olympic training camp against a kid named Web Goodman, who also used a Rem 1100. He beat me and went to camp. I didn't. The best shot in our club Frank Petty used a .410 1100 and would break 100 birds straight. I never had a misfire. Pulling birds, I never saw a misfire that wasn't due to a bad primer. I've shot sporting clays with folks who use Perazzis and Krieghoffs who have asked to use my 1100 because their arms were getting sore! I've also had people borrow my 1100 to shoot their split shells they couldn't fit into their doubles. My 8th grade science teacher, who talked my Mom into letting me get mine when I was 12, said you could stuff beer cans into it and it would fire them.

Philip Bourgaily of Field and Stream writes the shotgun column and I have read articles on wing shooting and I've always seen 11-87s and A-391s. I can tell you having put a lot of shells through them, and getting a lot of positive affirmation from what I've read on them, I wouldn't hesitate to buy one of the 11-87 premiers or 1100s. I teach hunter safety here twice a year and recommend them to people starting out.


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MCH & battue I've got no reason to disagree regarding the superior reliability and longevity of the newer Italian guns You both say you shoot the Italian guns, you sound like you know what you're talking about and I've read and heard it elsewhere as well.

I've never shot two hundred rounds in a day more than a couple of times that I recall. Also I probably don't shoot more than 2,500/3,000 rounds a year total so my opinion is based on not being a high volume shooter but a lot of shotgun owners don't shoot as much as I do.

This year I dove hunted and did some preserve chukar and pheasant shooting. Between Sept. 1st. & Dec 26 I put over a flat of shells for that through my early 80s Lt 20 1100, which I bought used. Other than wiping off the outside I never cleaned it and it never malfunctioned. I also don't have any trouble getting through four boxes of shells problem free for skeet, trap or SC in my other 1100s and don't clean them every time out either.

I'd agree that if the OP likes the Italian guns, and money's no problem and/or he's a high volume 10 to 20 thousand rounds a year shooter he should be probably be getting an Italian gun. If that's not the case, and he finds and likes a used 1100 that will reliably fill his needs for a lot less why not give it a try?

Remington's done something right with the 1100. It's been around since 1963, they've sold millions of them and they're still selling them.

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Some may think I wish Remington and the 1100 ill. Quite the contrary, I would like to see them dominate the semi-auto market. Not only in the clays games but in the field also. However, like much Remington does that sat on there hands and watched the Italians pass them. They didn't keep up with new more reliable gas systems. They didn't promote up and coming shooters in the clay games. They didn't promote shoots. They raised the price of their competition shells-Winchester did the same-to the point that even they are not used all that often. Just checked Cabela's pricing. $69 dollar a flat for the low end Field Club loads. $89 a flat for the good 12g STS target loads. $129. for the 28 and .410. It seems like they enjoy driving away people away.

I do think the older 1100s are more reliable than the newer ones. The 1100 Sporting Clay model that I used for maybe 2years was not worth cleaning when I got rid of it.





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Rob p I didn't see you mention anything about trap doubles. So of course the gun isn't going to have a problem. Every trap shoot I have ever been to you could only load one round. So yes unless its a bad primer there isn't much that really can go wrong (for the most part). Also you are from RI and I have never seen a post about shooting at Peace Dale, Addieville, or Wallum Lake Rod&Gun club. Of course Richie isn't truly running Peace Dale anymore but back in the hayday if you wanted tournament targets and to practice FITASC that was the place to go. Having Addieville in your backyard and not using it to me is a crime. I admit I haven't shot at Wallum in a bunch of years but they had moments of great targets too. RI is a very good state to live in if you are a shotgunner.

43shooter I have nothing against Remington's. I just feel that there are better options out there. Are they going to compete when high volumn shooting is involved? NO. Are they a decent hunting gun for the average low volumn shooter? Sure. In the 60's and 70's they were at the top of the list. As far as them still selling and people still having an affection with them. I chalk that up to what they were used to, familar with, and had been brough up on. However if you stand still the world will pass you by.

Battue my point on pointablity was/is that what feels great to you isn't going to feel great to me. Our size and body shape is just to far off.


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When I say I don't clean my gun I mean I literally don't clean it. The last time I had cleaned it prior to this hunting season it had over 6K rounds thru it. That is more then a few flats. So barring duck season it doesn't get anything more then a whip down of the outside of the barrel with some oil on a rag.


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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin


"ALL" is a pretty encompassing term and it leads me to doubt your claim. It's sure not consistent with what I'm hearing from people who hunt down there, not having been myself.

Don't get me wrong, I have several 1100's and have used them for many years. If one doesn't mind some fixing and a few parts here and there, 1100's are nice, easy shooting guns. I once had an 11-87, but sold it. It handled like a club and was before they came out with the lighter, 1100 wt. barrels. I have a Benelli M2 and like it a lot.

The new Beretta 400 Xplor sure looks good and handles nice. I would love to have one. Almost traded for one last year, just didn't quite get it done. Does anyone have experience with this gun?

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Not the Xplor, but the Xcell. First will handle 3.5in and the second 3in. Other than that they are the same shotgun.

So far I have approximately 2000 rounds through it and have had one hiccup on a cold day when the shells I was using-1oz @ 1200fps-had lost some steam from being out in the cold.

Has the KO system in the stock and recoil is the softest of any 12Ga I have used.
Last Friday I shot 550rounds in perhaps 2 1/2hours. At times you couldn't keep hold of the barrel due to the heat. No shoulder or neck discomfort at the end.

So far cleaning has consisted of a bore snake through the barrel each time with attention paid to the chamber and wiping off carbon from the rod the piston rides on. Wipe it down and put it in the case.

I like it.

Last edited by battue; 02/20/12.

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I shot everything. Trap, skeet, sporting clays, birds, deer, bunnies... Anything you can think of. I've popped off 3 rounds at ducks and geese many many times in wet, freezing conditions... I shot bowling pins at Peacedale 25 years ago. I went to school with John Barnes, who's wife worked at Addieville. I've never been there. I've never been interested in paying $$$ for English style (low gun) shooting lessons or popping dizzied pen raised birds. I hunt with the former Pres of Wallum Lake and have been there a couple times for my archery proficiency tests. It's as far away as you can get from me and still be in R.I. I've been to every shooting venue here and in Southern MA for one competition or another. Archery mostly these days. I'm done arguing the point. I have 25 years experience with the gun and have had no problems with it. Nor has anyone I have ever known. This back and forth crap isn't for me. I've defended my point more than I feel I should need to.


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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin


"ALL" is a pretty encompassing term and it leads me to doubt your claim. It's sure not consistent with what I'm hearing from people who hunt down there, not having been myself



DF


Just check and see what the "rental" guns are at most of these places . You can imagine how many thousands a round a month these go thru and you tell me.

A link to what one place rents

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Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin


"ALL" is a pretty encompassing term and it leads me to doubt your claim. It's sure not consistent with what I'm hearing from people who hunt down there, not having been myself



DF


Just check and see what the "rental" guns are at most of these places . You can imagine how many thousands a round a month these go thru and you tell me.

A link to what one place rents


I checked your link and see a couple of Merkel double guns, the rest, Beretta's and Benelli's, autos and double guns. You sorta killed your argument that ALL had gone to 1100's. Seems like this place has no 1100's for rent.

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
Originally Posted by Oldelkhunter
I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's. grin


"ALL" is a pretty encompassing term and it leads me to doubt your claim. It's sure not consistent with what I'm hearing from people who hunt down there, not having been myself



DF


Just check and see what the "rental" guns are at most of these places . You can imagine how many thousands a round a month these go thru and you tell me.

A link to what one place rents


I checked your link and see a couple of Merkel double guns, the rest, Beretta's and Benelli's, autos and double guns. You sorta killed your argument that ALL had gone to 1100's. Seems like this place has no 1100's for rent.

DF



I am positive all the Dove guides in Argentina and Mexico sold off their Benellis and Berettas and stocked up on 1100's.
_________________________

The above comment was meant to be sarcastic..you did see the grin correct?. Your response tells me you didn't bother reading my posts concerning this subject as well

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I obviously missed your tongue in cheek on that one.

Makes a lot more sense... smile

I was worried about you there for a while... shocked

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Originally Posted by Dirtfarmer
I obviously missed your tongue in cheek on that one.

Makes a lot more sense... smile

I was worried about you there for a while... shocked

DF


I worry about myself sometimes as well grin


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Originally Posted by rob p
I shot everything. Trap, skeet, sporting clays, birds, deer, bunnies... Anything you can think of. I've popped off 3 rounds at ducks and geese many many times in wet, freezing conditions... I shot bowling pins at Peacedale 25 years ago. I went to school with John Barnes, who's wife worked at Addieville. I've never been there. I've never been interested in paying $$$ for English style (low gun) shooting lessons or popping dizzied pen raised birds. I hunt with the former Pres of Wallum Lake and have been there a couple times for my archery proficiency tests. It's as far away as you can get from me and still be in R.I. I've been to every shooting venue here and in Southern MA for one competition or another. Archery mostly these days. I'm done arguing the point. I have 25 years experience with the gun and have had no problems with it. Nor has anyone I have ever known. This back and forth crap isn't for me. I've defended my point more than I feel I should need to.


Well I can clearly see that you don't shoot at addieville. I never said a word about hunting at addieville. What does bolwing pins have to do with shotguns? So I see you haven't shot any of the excellent targets Richie use to throw at Peace Dale. As far as distance, we are talking about RI. Some people in other states drive farther to get to the store then you can drive in RI from end to end. By the way you don't have to name names I know all the players in RI as far as sporting clays goes. As for you trying to badmouth Addieville what Geoff built there is one of the best shooting clubs in America. Jack does and outstanding job running the place and has long before Geoff passed away. Its sad your to dumb to realize what you have in your own backyard.


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Forgot to address your other mistake do to lack of knowledge. $$$English style Low gun shooting lessons????? Really? I am pretty sure Todd Anderson could give you lessons for a very reasonable price. Last I saw he doesn't shoot low gun. Doug being a big fan of FITASC most likely will but I am sure if you let him know you want to shoot premounted he could tailor lessons to your needs. When Andy was there he would teach you either and yes he was is expensive but so isn't all the other well known accomplished shooters that give lessons. Like I said it is truly sad that you don't realize what you have in your own backyard.


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My dad has an old 1100 20ga from the early 70's that is still going strong although it looks like a captured talibani insurgent's rifle. I have a benelli SBE and my dad has a beretta that are both VERY hard used. They run like champs also.

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I have known many Remington 1100s in my time, and I like them as hunting guns. But, 500,000 rounds? In my experience, you would need about 100 1100s to make that number without replacing just about every part on the gun.

Rem 1100s at one time were common in trap and skeet. They were the best out there at the time and had relatively light recoil. However, they were not known to be particularly rugged. Try to find an 1100 in high end shooting games today. I think you won't find many, if any at all. They are still popular at local events around here though-- they are a cult favorite for some.

I have always liked the 1100, but modern Benelli's and Beretta's are way better guns in every respect.


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I don't see an 1100 reaching a half million shells trouble free or even completely rebuilt. However, a half million shells doesn't seem to bother Benelli M1's all that much...

http://www.tomknapp.net/gunroom/tomsOldBenelli.php


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Am I the only member of this website that shoots a Maxus and a SX3. By admitting that do I lose my membership? Or do I have to do penance and hunt with hunter01 for a whole dove season? Before you shun me I do have a 3901 I bought a month ago and for the money I think it is a very nice shotgun.

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I've had a Maxus since Nov 09. I like it. It needed a replacement trigger spring but other than that it's been as advertised. Under 7 lbs, cycles everything from 7/8ths oz loads up to 3&1/2s and requires minimal cleaning. It ought to for what it costs.

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Shoot what you have, have fun, and be safe. I don't shun anyone for shooting anything that is at the minimum SAFE!

But when someone ask what they think others think is better or should I buy this one or that one. Well I try to answer honestly from the experiance I have and the knowledge I have from others on the subject. The problem with being honest is that it hurts feelings and people just assume you (me) would never own such. Which is not true at all. I have owned damn near all the usual suspects in the shotgun market. Hell I have a 870, 1100, and 500 still. I admit I don't really shoot them because I have better. But I keep them around for that newbie introduction and the ever nearing SHTF.


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It's a testimony to modern shotguns that we need to drag many thousands of rounds into the discussion to separate them.

I like 1100's, but I like light and lively better so I go with Benelli. It's tough for me to get worked up over anything else.


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In a hardcore duck hunting gun nothing outside the Benelli M1 Super90 can get me worked up. You can keep the SBE's and M2's.

I could get worked up for a Zoli in a dedicated Sporting Clays gun.

For upland hunting I get worked up over all the American Classics. Have a love affair with the Winchester Model 21 and those high grade Lefever's.

I will always have a fondness for the 870 as that is what I grew up on. Spent many days out on the Juneau Wetlands and Montana Creek duck hunting.


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