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#6251209 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: Maverick940]  
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bearhuntr Offline
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at Grandma's house...
You might be mistaking for fact, printed assumptions on data from the 60's as being hard science...they are not necessarily so. It is fact that numbers were compiled. It is also fact that these numbers were crunched from much lesser data available to the citing biologist into the now well used models somewhere around 1988 to 1990, many years later.

Fast forward to the mid 70's. As time marched on from statehood, increasing populations of hunters came into play. New data was needed to better understand the moose population's relationship to new pressures- automobile strikes, many more consumptive users, a viable railroad booming with newfound customers, and the like. Predator information had always been a factor, though not as forefront in the news as it is today.Of course, good scientific information regarding predators didn't show up until the 70's. There was also the pressure given by the constitution to manage for MSY. Read as "political pressure from above." Things were changing quickly.

Others here have given you what you you might consider anecdotal information. What that means is "not scientifically" formulated...simply observed. What is fact is that population densities and carrying capacity for the unit 14 herds were "estimated" from statehood through the 60's and early 70's, then built by todays current practices and model. When a comment like "The best data/information available at the time was utilized" comes to print, one must understand what is being said. I can understand your acceptance as "fact" as what has been printed. It was "fact" that prompted scientific men of the day to document their observations as "fact" on the notion of "spontaneous generation."

You claim as one of your bonofides "hunting in Alaska for over 4 decades." If this is true (I have no reason to doubt this, though you might want to update your web-site) you will remember that the population of Anchorage, Wasilla, and Mat/Su in the pre-quake days were less than 50 thousand souls. The number of consumptive user man-hours to bag a moose was far less than currently required. The number of moose taken was as many as 4 times greater in peak years in the 1960's than is currently managed for on the low end, over twice on the high end. Also fact.

I was rather dissappointed in the manner you chose to hold discourse with people here at the 'fire. At first I reasoned another professional here might allow for more information of the "positive kind" to leach out to the masses. I realize that my opinion and three bucks might buy you a cup of Joe at one of the little stands downtown. Right now that opinion suggests you are a condesending, arrogant ass and need go on ignore.
What that means is that "you are a condesending, arrogant ass and need go on ignore."

Have a nice day!!!!

Last edited by bearhuntr; 03/04/12. Reason: forgot to add "Have a nice day!!!!"

Posted by: "Ironbender-"Firm yet rude". That should be my sig line!"
CMG 300 BP

#6251252 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: bearhuntr]  
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SpartanGunner Online content
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hehe


If you are going to be dumb - you've got to be tuff.
#6251279 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: bearhuntr]  
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Maverick940 Offline
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Bear Hunter:

Your distaste for and/or unacceptance of my varied experience aside, I will state some pertinent accountabilities in terms of GMU 14A moose, as follows;

Science is an evolutionary process, so of course science shall change over time. Computer models can tell scientists whatever they want to read. However, the development of science over time provides data which is applicable in future realms.

Anyway, the fact does remain that the current abundance of moose in GMU 14A is on par with what the carry capacity can sustain over long term. With that being said, the carry capacity has diminished over the past 50 years, but not because of biological mismanagement. Rather, reduction in carry capacity is and has been caused by societal displacement.

Going back to when I grew up in Alaska, moose were much more abundant because several federal programs - both societal and biological - created an atmosphere for overtly abundant sub-populations which turns out, wasn't healthy in an ecological sense.

In specific reference to GMU 14A, the current situation - long sense the establishment of statehood - is the result of things which are well beyond wildlife managers' ability to control. The leading constraint to having moose sub-populations at levels of the 50's, 60's and 70's, is that there's not enough habitat nor the potential for habitat to maintain and sustain that many moose.

Therefore, to keep sub-populations in check and to promote productivity as well as long-term habitat benefit, wildlife managers manage through a sustainable male harvest and if applicable, a sustainable female harvest. In the case of GMU 14A, the current bull harvest is and has been sustainable and, an appropriate number of female moose in the overall harvest has been warranted the past 10-15 years.

In terms of your self-assessed disappointment in what I've contributed in text on this nebulous website, I'm sorry that you're having issues with that. Hopefully over time it will alleviate.

You have a nice morning, as well.

Maverick

#6251812 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: Maverick940]  
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Sitka deer Offline
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Maverick
To start, your pretentious use of words you do not understand gives you away, big time... Here is just a single example, temporally closest to the issue:

"Hopefully over time it will alleviate."

Suggesting 14A moose have been at carrying capacity since the '60s is preposterous given the extreme range of populations over that time frame. Suggesting so would indicate the populations of the '60s would have severely damaged the browse... they did not.

Reducing the population to reduce vehicle-moose collisions is not a function of carrying capacity in the biological sense.

Unfortunately for you, your bio-babble is no better than your English. And neither are worth wasting time on.
art



Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
#6252105 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: Sitka deer]  
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Maverick940 Offline
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Alaska
[quote=Sitka deer]Maverick
To start, your pretentious use of words you do not understand gives you away, big time... Here is just a single example, temporally closest to the issue:

"Hopefully over time it will alleviate."

Suggesting 14A moose have been at carrying capacity since the '60s is preposterous given the extreme range of populations over that time frame. Suggesting so would indicate the populations of the '60s would have severely damaged the browse... they did not.

Reducing the population to reduce vehicle-moose collisions is not a function of carrying capacity in the biological sense.

Unfortunately for you, your bio-babble is no better than your English. And neither are worth wasting time on.
art

[/quotArthur:

Rather than go into a lesson concerning application and use of the English language and its context per word-use, I'll mention the following;

Obviously, you weren't around this area during the 60's, or you wouldn't of proffered your synopsis concerning former/present habitat conditions.

And, the biological community isn't managing a population for public safety, as that's not provided under statute.

Again, if you have issues with the science of wildlife conservation and lands management and, the allocation of those resources among user groups, then do something tangible about it.

Maverick

Alpha

#6252638 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: Maverick940]  
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ironbender Online happy
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In the shadow of the Kenai Mtn...
Dang. Fresh out of popcorn.

It looks like nachos for me.

On the bright side, Bearhuntr and his snowblower are up on his roof.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
#6252902 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: ironbender]  
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Klikitarik Online sick
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Originally Posted by ironbender
Dang. Fresh out of popcorn.

It looks like nachos for me.

On the bright side, Bearhuntr and his snowblower are up on his roof.


Wind has some negatives, obviously, but the fact that it voids the need for snowblowers on roofs is not one of them. smile


Sometimes, the air you 'let in'matters less than the air you 'let out'.
#6253042 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: Klikitarik]  
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bearhuntr Offline
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at Grandma's house...
It..is....................................................................................................................................finished smile

Thanks to Ironbender's sense of orientation, the crane worked...the snowblower went up (and came down) and...most importantly...momma is happy!

The beer's on beerhuntr wink


Posted by: "Ironbender-"Firm yet rude". That should be my sig line!"
#6253148 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: Maverick940]  
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bearhuntr Offline
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at Grandma's house...
Originally Posted by Maverick940

And, the biological community isn't managing a population for public safety, as that's not provided under statute.

Maverick


I believe you've mentioned here tenure as a member of the BOG. You must have been otherwise occupied to have seen it?

Truth be told...as directed by the BOG, the DF&G has set up archery only hunts for cow moose in order to alleviate ...wait for it... Automobile/Moose collisions! Yepper, I even got one of those tags a couple of years ago. Up by Fairbanks IIRC. Got to meet a kindred spirit up there-very helpful was he smile Just another helpful, regular, sourdough kinda fellow, that TLTQ fellow.


Posted by: "Ironbender-"Firm yet rude". That should be my sig line!"
#6253413 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: bearhuntr]  
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ironbender Online happy
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In the shadow of the Kenai Mtn...
Originally Posted by bearhuntr
It..is....................................................................................................................................finished smile

Thanks to Ironbender's sense of orientation, the crane worked...the snowblower went up (and came down) and...most importantly...momma is happy!

The beer's on beerhuntr wink


I'm gonna start a business named "Speedy Helper" or "Is That Fast Enough?"


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
Bravo

#6253417 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: bearhuntr]  
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ironbender Online happy
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In the shadow of the Kenai Mtn...
Originally Posted by bearhuntr
Just another helpful, regular, sourdough kinda fellow, that TLTQ fellow.

He's just another beer hunter. wink


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
#6253608 - 03/04/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: bearhuntr]  
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Sitka deer Offline
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Sitka deer  Offline
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Really... They did it up there, too?

Originally Posted by bearhuntr
Originally Posted by Maverick940

And, the biological community isn't managing a population for public safety, as that's not provided under statute.

Maverick


I believe you've mentioned here tenure as a member of the BOG. You must have been otherwise occupied to have seen it?

Truth be told...as directed by the BOG, the DF&G has set up archery only hunts for cow moose in order to alleviate ...wait for it... Automobile/Moose collisions! Yepper, I even got one of those tags a couple of years ago. Up by Fairbanks IIRC. Got to meet a kindred spirit up there-very helpful was he smile Just another helpful, regular, sourdough kinda fellow, that TLTQ fellow.


Mark Begich, Joaquin Jackson, and Heller resistance... Three huge reasons to worry about the NRA.
#6254729 - 03/05/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: Sitka deer]  
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bearhuntr Offline
Campfire Guide
bearhuntr  Offline
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at Grandma's house...
Indeed smile


Posted by: "Ironbender-"Firm yet rude". That should be my sig line!"
#6254770 - 03/05/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: bearhuntr]  
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ironbender Online happy
Campfire Oracle
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In the shadow of the Kenai Mtn...
Someone with arrows needs to write a proposal for BOG along those lines for 15. wink


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
#6254927 - 03/05/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: ironbender]  
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bearhuntr Offline
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at Grandma's house...
Recall the last RAC BOG meeting we attended? I brought that very point up to Corry Rossi. We chatted about it but, at the time I'm guessing he was more concerned with bears...

Of course you know why it was fresh in my mind to do so wink





Posted by: "Ironbender-"Firm yet rude". That should be my sig line!"
#6255316 - 03/05/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: bearhuntr]  
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ironbender Online happy
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In the shadow of the Kenai Mtn...
Yep and yup.

Still should/has to, go to BOG.


If you take the time it takes, it takes less time.
--Pat Parelli

American by birth; Alaskan by choice.
--ironbender
#6257749 - 03/06/12 Re: Anybody able to access F&G? [Re: ironbender]  
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las Offline
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las  Offline
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Kotzebue, AK
Mavrich940

Is your first name Harold? If so, (then I know your last name) I met you on the train about 35 years ago.

Just curious. Your posts remind me strongly of a first and only encounter of a person who later went on to become a Big Game Guide and author... one of which I never aspired to, and the other never achieved, repectively.

Last edited by las; 03/06/12.

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