Home Forums Reloading Shotshells All Brass 12 Gauge Cases?

I would swear, when I was a kid that a friend of my Dads had a double barrel shotgun that he was firing shells made completely of brass. Like a giant rifle cartridge.
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<br>Is there such a thing? Where are they available?
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<br>I'm pondering that it would be real interesting to reload precise cartridges for my rifled shotgun.
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<br>I wonder just how accurate you could load a 12 gauge with such components.
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<br>How about Slugs / Sabots and recipes. Haven't seen anything like that locally.
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<br>TIA

Strider:
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<br>Yes, initially almost all shotgun shells were brass, mostly because paper was not waterproof at that time, I'm not enough of a shotgun historian to know when the first paper hulls came out, but around the turn of the century, I'm guessing. Plastic hulls were developed by Winchester in the late 50s as I recall. All army shotshells, loaded with buck shot used to be brass and they were pretty common at one time, but are mostly priced as collector's items now. Remington made a run of brass 12 ga a few years back for Ducks Unltd. and they ran about $25 bucks a box, loaded with a decorative metal box. I image there are still some floating around and there may be a source for brass hulls somewhere, but I am not familiar with it. Federal still makes paper hulls for one of their target loads and they are a great hull for relaoding, but they don't last long, due to pin holes burning through the paper, usually 2 or 3 reloads is it. They have a distinctive smell when shot, especially the first time, that some of us find quite pleasant.
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<br>The reason brass is not common is because it is a pain to reload, you have to use a top wad with shot and because there is not an easy way to seal the load in, and particularly to make it watertight. You have to go back and use some kind of wax as a seal after loading, putting the top wad on, and then crimping it in place. This is a guess, but I would doubt that brass hulls would pattern as well as plastic for several reasons that are not worth getting into here. I always said I was going to shoot some of those DU shells, but never got around to it. I shoot o/u's so functioning was not a concern, am not sure how some semi-autos would react to them, probably fine but have no personal experience along those lines.
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<br>There is no real advantage to using brass for shotshells and quite a few disadvantages. The only plus is that brass might last for a very large number of reloadings, but with the low cost of good plastic and the difficulty of reloading brass, I would not really consider this a big deal. Most good plastic hulls will last for 6 to 10 reloading today, so a 20 box case of good plastic hulls will probably last for 3000 rounds or so, and for most non-competitive shooters that is a long time.
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<br>For some of the best information and products devoted almost exclusively to shotgun shooting and reloading, check out www.ballisticproducts.com They have a good section on slugs and sabot products and sell booklets on reloading them.
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<br>To sum it up, brass is interesting historically, and some cowboy shooters may use them(might have a source there, I don't know) but it is not the way to go for modern shotshell loading. How necessary precision is in shotshells is debatable, but in shotshells, your precision comes from the care with which you assemble the components, and your testing, and the hull contributes very little, since all it actually does, besides holding the components, is seal off the chamber. The different hull designs do affect pressures, so you need to use what the loading manual calls for.

I know Alcan and Kynoc made all brass shot shells. Before the turn of the last century the Brits made a lot of them as the paper hulls would not take the conditions in the hot and wet parts of The Empire. My dad was in the CBI in WWII and said that all the shot shells they could get were English and all brass. He said they hunted peacocks with them. Old Western scrounger may still have some.
<br>BCR

Ok, So let me clarify...
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<br>In case it's not obvious, I have never reloaded shotgun in any form. My experience is all with shooting store bought shells. Slugs appear significantly different than shotshells to me. Maybe I should do some other research, but I thought I'd pick at the forum first.
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<br>I came from the midwest where you can't use "high-powered" rifles. If you hunt deer with a modern firearm - it'll probably be shotgun. So, one of the things I aquired along the way, was a break down - rifled barrel shotgun. I'd be willing to say 90% of the deer taken from the area I was in were within 25 yards. Deer Slugs have come a long way in the last decade or so and you can venture shots a good bit further.
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<br>Now that I am in the NW. I've really started to enjoy handloading. I love the finished product. Each bullet is like a work of art. I have lots of other firearm options now, but that is beside the point. And the shotgun sits in the rack, unfired for the last 5 years.
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<br>I've been pondering throwing a scope on it. If you could load it like a rifle, one can't help but wonder, with the right components and a lot of patience that a good 75-100 yard group could be developed. I would think that brass shells could be more predictable and precise. Not to mention more pleasing to look at. If you used a slug, wouldn't it be as "water tight" as any rifle cartridge.
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<br>Economy set aside. That would be one hard hitting short range "rifle". And, it's something to do...
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<br>TIA

Strider:
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<br>I have reloaded literally hundreds of thousands of shotgun shells, but have never reloaded any slugs so am really speaking out of my area of expertise, but all the reading on the subject I have done indicates that with good barrels, scopes, etc you can expect a 2 to 4 inch 3 shot group at 100 yards with sabot type slugs that your shotgun likes and, if everything comes together, possibly less.
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<br>To repeat, there would be no advantage to reloading with brass and besides the fact that it might be extremely difficult to obtain, all of the slug 'recipes" are set up for plastice hulls. I suppose you could reinvent the wheel if you find some brass hulls and that is your option.

Strider the only slugs I have ever reloaded were the old Foster type. They required constant fiddling with wad column and wad pressure and seating depth to get it right. Some where or the other I have a Lyman roll crimp tool that they require. I have not seen it in years. It is in a junk box somewhere. Some where else is a 12 ga slug mold.
<br>The new sabot slugs are great from what I have seen shot. I do not use them because I don't have to. IMO it would be a whole lot easier and better to just find a factory slug that your gun likes. I know nothing about reloading the sabot slugs.
<br>BCR

Thanks Gents. It was mostly a question of curiosity.
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<br>Having cut a plastic factory slug apart, I can see where it looks like a lot of work. And a lot of variables prone to inconsistancy.
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<br>I thought perhaps Brass would eliminate those, and allow me to tweak that perfect load. It sure works for rifle cartridges.
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<br>I doubt I'll ever try it, unless I trip across some components. I have plenty of other toys to play with.
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<br>Thanks again for sharing the experiences. I'm being "encouraged" to join a trap club. If I fall into that, I may be back for some more knowlege. I can see where one could save a bundle when you go through that many rounds. ttyl

Strider: re: trap
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<br>I was addicted to the game for many years, a lot of fun, and, in general, a great group of people associated with the sport.
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<br>However, unless you become an addict, you can buy Walmart cheapie shotgun shells for about the same or less than you can reload a box for, not counting your time, and investment in equipment(and who's counting either when it comes to shooting). However, for the same money, you will be able to reload a much better round with less recoil.
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<br>For the occasional shooter, or someone who has enough money and not enough time, buying good factory target loads and selling the hulls makes for some very reasonably priced shooting as well. Good luck.

Dangerous Dave, at Old Western Scrounger, sells CBC new brass for less than a buck each. They are Berdan primed, and the primers are about $3.00 per hundred.
<br>I use the 24 ga. for forming to .577-450 Martini - Henry. It is good stuff, but in that application a tougher primer is indicated.
<br>Sometimes lots of surplus militaty brass loads and fired cases show up at gun shows, and they use large rifle primers.
<br>The boys at the cowboy action sites use brass routinely, largely for cosmetic purposes, but also because the practice requires no expensive loading tools.
<br>Cheers from Darkest California,
<br>Ross