Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 1 of 18 1 2 3 17 18
#6198312 - 02/20/12 Elk and the .223.Why not?  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
logcutter Offline
Campfire Tracker
logcutter  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
Central Idaho
If the .243 is an Elk killing machine with 95 grain bullets,why wouldn't the .223 with 60-62 grain Nosler and Barnes not be also?

62 grain .223 Federal Fusions penetrate 15" in ballistic gel and I would expect the Nosler and Barnes to go farther.

So why not the .223 for Elk or is the .243 the lowest caliber lethal to Elk without a head shot?

Jayco

CMG 300 BP

#6198322 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: logcutter]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,538
prairie_goat Offline
Campfire Outfitter
prairie_goat  Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,538
Montana
Why not. Shoot an elk in the lungs,with a good bullet. It stumbles off 100 yards and dies.


Now some men like the fishing
While some men like the fowling
And some men like to hear the cannon ball roaring
Me, I like sleeping
#6198345 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: prairie_goat]  
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,592
Partagas Offline
Campfire Guide
Partagas  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 3,592
4431'N 10904'W
because it is illegal in WY to use a caliber smaller than 243 for big game

#6198377 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: Partagas]  
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 398
PepeLp Offline
Campfire Regular
PepeLp  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 398
NM
I knew guys who would fill cow tags with a .223. Opening morning, head shot at under 100 yards.


It's all in the reflexes.
#6198387 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: prairie_goat]  
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,665
bigsqueeze Offline
Campfire Tracker
bigsqueeze  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,665
So Cal
Even though I disagree with using a 223 for elk, if the 223 were legal for elk in a state and one wanted that challenge, then I would have no reason not to support it.



300WSM,,,,338-378 Wby,,,,375 Ruger


Alpha

#6198405 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: bigsqueeze]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,195
Mauser_Hunter Offline
Campfire Guide
Mauser_Hunter  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,195
Colorado
Don't stop with elk. Go kill a water buffalo.


Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
#6198407 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: Partagas]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
logcutter Offline
Campfire Tracker
logcutter  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
Central Idaho
I realize in some States it is not legal but the huge advance in bullet technology has upped smaller calibers lethal too,several notches from back when.

If a mediocre .223 bullet will penetrate 15" in ballistic gel and expand to .54 caliber,then a well placed shot with a .223 and premium type bullets,should be an Elk killer,just like a 95 grain .243 bullet...Right?

I don't know how many of you guys have been in on penetration test in ballistic gel,but 15" isn't all that bad compared to even some 45-70 jacketed bullets.....Like 3" shy of the 400 grain Swift A-Frame tested by Rick Jamison!

Jayco

#6198446 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: logcutter]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,213
Dan360 Offline
Campfire Ranger
Dan360  Offline
Campfire Ranger

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,213
Washington State
Its illegal.......

But, if it weren't, I still think that its not appropriate regardless of whether it would work or not. I don't know of anyone who drives railroad spikes with framing hammers. I don't know why anyone would insist on using the smallest caliber possible when there are so many other choices that provide a larger margin of error.

#6198509 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: Dan360]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,654
firstcoueswas80 Offline
Campfire Outfitter
firstcoueswas80  Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,654
Arizona
I dont see why one would find it necessary, or even ethical to use such a teeny tiny gun/bullet for such a big strong, tough animal. This type of thread comes up quite often, and honestly it kind of lights a fire under me. I truly do not see the point of wanting to shoot the smallest caliber to take one of the strongets animals in North America, or in general.


Check out my wife's Lularoe page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LuLaRoeSarahCharter/
#6198550 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: firstcoueswas80]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
logcutter Offline
Campfire Tracker
logcutter  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
Central Idaho
Okay..The difference between the .243 and .223/.224 is .019 in diameter....

Federal Fusion .243/95 grain Fusion is 2980 fps.

Black Hills .223/62 grain TSX is ......3100 fps.

So why will the .243 kill Elk just fine and the .223 won't?My bet is the 62 grain .223/.224 TSX will penetrate as far as the 95 grain/.243 Fusion..Could be wrong and correct me if you have seen different.

I am curious why some may think the .243 is an Elk killing machine and the .223 isn't or can't be atleast equal with todays bullets and loads other than that huge .019 difference in diameter out of the muzzle.

Jayco

Bravo

#6198568 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: logcutter]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,195
Mauser_Hunter Offline
Campfire Guide
Mauser_Hunter  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,195
Colorado
Maybe some of us who think the .223 is lousy for elk. Think the same thing about the .243.


Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
#6198581 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: Mauser_Hunter]  
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,654
firstcoueswas80 Offline
Campfire Outfitter
firstcoueswas80  Offline
Campfire Outfitter

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,654
Arizona
The absolute smallest rifle I would shoot for a elk is a 25-06/257 wby. That is becaue I have seen first hand the 100 TTSX on a elk. It would not be my first choice (first would be my 300wsm).


Check out my wife's Lularoe page:

https://www.facebook.com/groups/LuLaRoeSarahCharter/
#6198635 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: logcutter]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,164
1tnhunter Offline
Campfire Ranger
1tnhunter  Offline
Campfire Ranger

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,164
Tennessee
REFERENCE
reference
1. CEN TERFIRE RIFLES
a. Must be minimum of .24 caliber (6 mm).
b. Must have a minimum 16-inch barrel and be at least 26 inches long.
c. If semiautomatic, they can hold a maximum of six rounds in the magazine
and chamber combined.
d. Must use expanding bullets that weigh minimum 70 grains for deer,
pronghorn and bear, 85 grains for elk and moose, and have an impact
energy (at 100 yards) of 1,000-ft. pounds as rated by manufacturer.
e. It is illegal to hunt game birds, small-game mammals or furbearers with a
centerfire rifle larger than .23 caliber during regular rifle deer and elk seasons
west of I-25, without an unfilled deer or elk license for the season. A
small-game, furbearer or unfilled big-game license is required.
2. FULLY AU TOMATIC

Here's one reason.This is from the Colorado Reg.

#6198657 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: 1tnhunter]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
logcutter Offline
Campfire Tracker
logcutter  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
Central Idaho
I am always interested in other States regs.Thanks,Gravestone,I didn't know that about Colorado...

Not the case in Idaho though, nor am I pushing the .223 for Elk...

Jayco

#6198696 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: logcutter]  
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,164
1tnhunter Offline
Campfire Ranger
1tnhunter  Offline
Campfire Ranger

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 2,164
Tennessee
Your welcome. Not sure but i believe most elk inhabited states have a 243 min. requirement. I guess that's way the question of Elk with a 243 is asked on the forums.

#6198716 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: 1tnhunter]  
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,437
tipmover Offline
Campfire Regular
tipmover  Offline
Campfire Regular

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,437
NW Montana
The short bus must be closed today being it is Presidents Day?


Turn me loose, set me free, somewhere in the middle of Montana!
#6198746 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: tipmover]  
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 114
Tom338 Offline
Member
Tom338  Offline
Member

Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 114
Minnesota
Why is it people want to shoot big game with a 223. And the people who have them all want a fast twist barrel so they can shoot 60-70 grain bullets. If you want to play with the big boys grow some stones and get a bigger gun. Would you use a tack hammer to pound in a pole barn spike...The same applies with your firearms. Use the right tool for the job.

#6198754 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: 1tnhunter]  
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
logcutter Offline
Campfire Tracker
logcutter  Offline
Campfire Tracker

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,130
Central Idaho
Idaho's says on page 67 of the hunting regs:

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov
Big Game Rules
67
Weapon Restrictions
Rifle and Shotgun
In any hunt, including any-weapon seasons, it is unlawful to
pursue or kill big game animals:
By any means other than approved firearms,
muzzleloaders and archery methods.
With any electronic device attached to, or incorporated
on, the firearm or scope; Except scopes containing
battery powered or tritium lighted reticles are allowed.
With any firearm that, in combination with a scope, sling
and/or any attachments, weighs more than 16 pounds.
With any fully automatic firearm.
With any shotgun using shot smaller than #00 buck.
With any rimfire rifle, rimfire handgun, or muzzleloading
handgun, except for mountain lions.



Jayco

#6198849 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: logcutter]  
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,195
Mauser_Hunter Offline
Campfire Guide
Mauser_Hunter  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 4,195
Colorado
Originally Posted by logcutter
Idaho's says on page 67 of the hunting regs:

http://fishandgame.idaho.gov
Big Game Rules
67
Weapon Restrictions
Rifle and Shotgun
In any hunt, including any-weapon seasons, it is unlawful to
pursue or kill big game animals:
By any means other than approved firearms,
muzzleloaders and archery methods.
With any electronic device attached to, or incorporated
on, the firearm or scope; Except scopes containing
battery powered or tritium lighted reticles are allowed.
With any firearm that, in combination with a scope, sling
and/or any attachments, weighs more than 16 pounds.
With any fully automatic firearm.
With any shotgun using shot smaller than #00 buck.
With any rimfire rifle, rimfire handgun, or muzzleloading
handgun, except for mountain lions.



Jayco


Must be more than that? What's an approved rifle?

You can't even use a .223 on deer here. Let alone elk.

Last edited by Mauser_Hunter; 02/20/12.

Money can't buy you happiness, but it can buy you a hunting license and that's pretty close.
#6198978 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: Mauser_Hunter]  
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,177
T_Inman Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
T_Inman  Offline
Campfire 'Bwana

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 10,177
The Rock
You could legally shoot an elk (or moose) in ID and/or MT with a .17 Hornet. I wouldn't try it, though I solidly believe 22 centerfires are fine for deer. Elk, I'd be on the fence till I saw it happen a few times.

I am pretty sure Scenar killed a big bull with a 220 Swift, but believe it was a target of opportunity for him while predator hunting, not elk hunting.


All women want me. There's no point in denying it, nor trying to change their nature.

It is something I have come to accept.
#6199167 - 02/20/12 Re: Elk and the .223.Why not? [Re: T_Inman]  
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,291
elkivory Offline
Campfire Guide
elkivory  Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 4,291
colorado
seems obvious to me ; what is more important to the user ?
your ego or respect for the animal...easy choice for me.

Page 1 of 18 1 2 3 17 18

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

AIH 160 1
Who's Online Now
106 registered members (AKBunny, 257Bobs, 257Deland, 1Longbow, Adamjp, 257_X_50, 12 invisible), 442 guests, and 489 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod









Copyright © 2000-2018 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.071s Queries: 15 (0.003s) Memory: 1.0452 MB (Peak: 1.3411 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-01-17 10:40:39 UTC