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Originally Posted by RDFinn
It would be sad if someone went out and spent their hard earned money on a scope based on Ringman's "testing".


But if one is a diehard slayer of pump shacks and transformer signs...................................................


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......then a 12-48x40mm 6500 is your huckleberry.....

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Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Ringman Offline OP
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One cautionary note regarding the exit pupil. There is no correlation between the size of a scope�s exit pupil and overall optical quality. Some superb scopes have small exit pupils and some real dogs have very large ones. Exit-pupil calculation is a useful tool in selecting scopes, but it isn�t the whole toolbox. You should consider everything and then ultimately believe your own eyes.


The above says it all.

Like one of our .com frinds posted a brightly lit blob is still a brightly lit blob.


"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation."
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Originally Posted by Ringman
Quote
One cautionary note regarding the exit pupil. There is no correlation between the size of a scope�s exit pupil and overall optical quality. Some superb scopes have small exit pupils and some real dogs have very large ones. Exit-pupil calculation is a useful tool in selecting scopes, but it isn�t the whole toolbox. You should consider everything and then ultimately believe your own eyes.


The above says it all.

Like one of our .com frinds posted a brightly lit blob is still a brightly lit blob.


Yea. But if you going to quote me get the &(**&%^(**_ quote correct and in the proper context MORON! ................ dj


Remember this is all supposed to be for fun.......................
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Yea. But if you going to quote me get the &(**&%^(**_ quote correct and in the proper context MORON! ................ dj


What did you post again and what was the context? I have tried twice and got it wrong both times. blush


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I don't have a 4200 but I do have a B&L Elite 3000 and a Bushnell 3200. Both have performed without a hitch for quite a few years now and I've killed alot of critters with them.

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I have two 4200 and they work for what I want.

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http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads...pes#Post3893095

After going over this I see you have made my point that exit pupil is irrelevant. Consider the following math....

Scope # one: 4.75X48
48 divided by 4.75=10.1 exit pupil

Scope # two: 4.75X40
40 divided by 4.75=8.42 exit pupil

Facts are hard to accept at times.


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Ringman,

you make things very difficult.

Please do try to follow the argument put forth vs. jacking up preconceived notions.

Exit pupil on an optical instrument matters -

it is generally understood, though, its size to matter only and up to the point, where the eye can use it.

As a rough guide - a healty human eye at around 30 years of age can use the full extent of an 7mm exit pupil, as this is as far as the iris will open.

At at 50 most can only use a 5mm exit pupil and it goes down from there.

I apologize for not stooping down this far earlier - I assumed, everyone discussing optics minutae this persistent would by talking

exit pupil

not exclude any understanding about the receiving instrument - the eye.

I understand - when your eyes do not dilate much anymore, you are stuck with the other mechanisms left to see -

coatings and magnification.

Your personal situation does not make your point a general one.

Generally speaking - it is flat wrong.


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Originally Posted by CMG
Ringman.........

Your personal situation does not make your point a general one.

Generally speaking - it is flat wrong.


Wohl gesagt. :-) :-)

I'm thinking that anyone who brings the Bible into a discussion about riflescopes is going to be pretty hard to talk any sense to........... ;-) ...........dj


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;-)

he is a good guy in my book, anyways.


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cmg,

In the following example all three 8X lost the deer antlers at the same time. When I turned up the scopes till I could see the antlers again the exit pupils were not the same.

Bushnell 8X42 binocs = 5.25
Tasco on 8X40 = 5.00
6500 on 8X50 = 6.25

I turned up the scopes till I could make out the forks again.

Tasco - 14X = 2.86 exit pupil
6500 - 15X = 3.33 � �

So when the exit pupil, as in the posts with the two scopes above with very large exit pupils, and here with small exit pupils the results show exit pupil doesn't seem to make any differene. Magnification does.



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Ringman,

"I" is the operative word in your post.

Your eyes can not use the exit pupil, so you do not get the benefit.

With higher magnification resolution always increases - the exit pupil decreases.

Anybody able to utilise the full exit pupil will notice the scope "darkening" as magnification increases.

They will also notice resolution increasing - as to you.

You only see one of the two happening - due to you personal situation. And you draw the wrong conclusions.

Also - when turning up the magnification to 15x still lets you distinguish deer antlers with an exit pupil of 3.3 mm, it is in the real world bright daylight still.

Also I know, my healthy young eyes would resolve still same antlers for me with your binos.

I do sympathize with you eye situation and am glad the higher mags keep you in the game. I also realize to enjoy my good young eyes while I can - age comes at it own speed invariably.

That said -

I urge you to never forget - that below your riflescope is a barrel. Scopes are for aiming; not for identification.

second - try to view the interdependencies in optics. What you see is only half the story and you are drawing the wrong conclusions.

Keep learning - its the smart thing to do.



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That was an incredibly diplomatic way of phrasing that.

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"I" is the operative word in your post. Your eyes can not use the exit pupil, so you do not get the benefit.


Here's the problem with your assessment. My son-in-law, who can see in the dark without a flashlight, comes to the same conclussions I do. He doesn't need as much magnification as I do, but has discovered exit pupil is irrelevant in the real world. He still uses Nikon 7-15X35 binos and a Tasco 4-16X40 on his Savage 7Mag.

Quote
Anybody able to utilise the full exit pupil will notice the scope "darkening" as magnification increases


I have noticed the darkening. More so in the Bushnell 6500 than in the Swaro z5.

Quote
I urge you to never forget - that below your riflescope is a barrel. Scopes are for aiming; not for identification.


This is not the thread for safety, but since I started this thread and am not disapointed when threads go a different direction I will agree with your encouragement. I use either my unaided eyes or binos to discover game. But the second I see game and can't identify it as legal or not the higher magnification rifle scope is on it. My rifle scope is for verifying the game is legal and for aiming at said game if it is legal. Last year I found a buck and could not count the points because it was too far for the 8X binos. When I put the rifle scope on the buck I could see it was legal in a three point minimum area. It was a 3X4.

I am discussed when folks show up at the range and pretend like they are carrying a bullet proof gun case. Also when some finish a magazine of ammo they carelessly point the gun at any shooters at the table beside them. Most unnerving.

Quote
Also I know, my healthy young eyes would resolve still same antlers for me with your binos.


I look forward to the time you get to Southern Oregon and give me a call. When you finish the binos I will take you for pie and coffee or just a drink.


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Ringman,

when I get to southern oregon I will give you a call and enjoy some pie and coffee with you.

Until then I am willing to let this rest. My argument is not "assessments".

That fact, that you still choose to call it same, reflects.

I will take the hint and stop.

Happy to hear, that we agree on the safety - both inside case and out.



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