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So, your little bullet expands to where my bullet starts?

I'm not impressed. My round ball reaches the far side hide. Enough penetration for me. Dead elk without destroying meat.

I used a 30-30 most of my hunting career, because my dad gave me the gun when I was 10 years old. It worked, and I saw no reason to change.

Awhile back I got into muzzleloaders. I find them a lot of fun to shoot, and I like the idea of hunting as our forefathers did. Plus the ML season is during the rut. Not a bad time to hunt.

Those are my reasons for using the guns I use. What are yours for handicapping yourself with such a small bullet?


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So if you hunted most of your life with the 30-30,you must appreciate the penetration it gives....

By an NRA contractor...

When robustly constructed bullets like the Barnes TSX, Nosler Partition and Fusion are used inside 150 yards, penetration with the .223 Remington is on par with cartridges like the .243 and the .30-30 Winchester.�

Nuff said.

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I never get an answer to my question. Why do you restrict yourself with a small bullet?

My reason is i'm not restricting myself through my gun. I restrict myself with only still hunting in deep timber. My shots are close and always double lung shots. The guns I use are all I need.

Do you hunt the same way? Why not use a bigger bullet that would give you more range, and the option to take angled shots?

I'm not busting your chops now, or anybody else who uses a .223. I'm really interested. Is it the challenge? The light recoil? The only gun you own? What?


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Restricting yourself to a small bullet is like shooting a solid or a hardcast that does not expand..A .223 expands to a caliber size larger than all pistol calibers and 99% of rifle calibers using a non expanding bullet.

I have Elk hunted since I was 2 years old and started shooting at 10 with my first Elk at 11(memory)..Elk hunting does not mean what it used to to me..I enjoy getting out/teaching my kids and seeing game but lately it is just me and the wife and I don't get down and dirty after them like I used to,not because I can't, but because I really don't want to anymore.

Yeah,I am going to hunt with the .223 next year as a stunt maybe or a "challenge" mostly.We had a 6X6 walk right through camp last year in my sons unit(not mine) and watched it broadside for maybe 90 seconds,time enough I could have grabbed a rifle and blasted it as it stood there less than 100 yards away broadside.

I know where there hanging out but I couldn't go in after them out of my legal unit.

In answer to your question,the smallest caliber I have used on Elk is the .270 and between myself/my grandpa and my dad,I have seen an easy 100 fall to the mighty .270 Win..I started out as a packers son never missing a season and never being skunked.Times have changed since the old days...But life goes on and I love a challenge,a real challenge..Keeps my blood moving. grin

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Ok, good enough. Good luck with your hunt.

Last edited by Mauser_Hunter; 03/05/12.

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Every living creature will die: It is unavoidable.It is the process of dieing that is the issue here..Do you prefer to die in your sleep or go through 6 months of chemo on a respirator..some marksman are proficent enough to make a clean kill with whatever is at hand, but if you try to gain approval from the general populous with a method that is not the norm, you are obviosly trying to get support for something that you havent total confidence in and are seeking the approval of others before following through..I suspect you could make a clean, swift, humane kill..but it IS WRONG TO ADVOCATE the use of this caliber to the general populous as a legimate choice for the intended purpose..

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I live in Florida so if I ever get the opportunity to go elk hunting I'm not going to be carrying .223. However, I always ask this question when I see the .223 for (insert species here) argument come up. If an arrow fired from a compound traveling 280 fps is so dang deadly, why would a 65-75 grain bonded or mono-metal .224 bullet moving at 3000+ fps not be just as deadly? Do they not both disrupt the supply of oxygen to brain by disabling the lungs thus causing death to visit quickly?

Last edited by GS; 03/05/12.
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I have helped pack out a fat cow that was dispatched with a .223.
My friend was out looking for a couple coyotes and came across a cow bedded down in a snow squall. He put one through her ears at 80 yards or so, turned off the switch instantly.
Not what I would carry looking for elk, but an effective ear hole caliber.

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Three that were wounded says it all. Thanks for posting that.


You never heard of someone wounding an elk with a larger caliber. I witnessed a fellow hit a cow elk with a .30-30 at least five times before it fell. If it had been in timber and moving out do you think it would have made a difference to that cow with what it was wounded?

How far did the wounded elk go in the article? We don't know if they were part of the 11. Apparently several dropped soon after the shot.


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thats the whole point !!! .
.223, .243, 30-30 etc..........
if thats what you got, thats what you got... but do not advocate that as an "elk killing machine" BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT and we dont need a bunch of newbies out there thinking they are doing the right thing because , we, on this forum,who are all knowing, say its a good option, so i'm gonna save my pennies and go get an AR and then i can use it on prarie dogs this spring after elk season !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by elkivory; 03/05/12.
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Don't know anyone that considers a .243 an elk-killing machine. When that .223, 62 grain bullet hits bone, it disentegrates and leaves and injued animal that will likely not be found unless you make a perfect shot. In the real world of elk hunting, you don't always get a 75-yard shot like you do hunting whitetails in your back 40.

Elk hunting is a man's sport and needs a man's gun... LOL



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For those who say they've seen bigger calibers wound animals, or it 3-4 shots with a bigger caliber.

Do you think they would have done better if they were using a .223?

The question is....why not use a .223? I say....why not use something bigger?

The only answer i've gotten to why use a .223 was it was a challenge.

Last edited by Mauser_Hunter; 03/05/12.

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the upside of being naive is that one receives the full experience...


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Originally Posted by GS
I live in Florida so if I ever get the opportunity to go elk hunting I'm not going to be carrying .223. However, I always ask this question when I see the .223 for (insert species here) argument come up. If an arrow fired from a compound traveling 280 fps is so dang deadly, why would a 65-75 grain bonded or mono-metal .224 bullet moving at 3000+ fps not be just as deadly? Do they not both disrupt the supply of oxygen to brain by disabling the lungs thus causing death to visit quickly?


Because the arrow likely weighs between 400-500grains with most of it's weight forward of center which increases penetration. the .224 bullet doesn't. The arrow causes massive hemmorage through blood loss and cuts it's way through the animal. The bullet relies on force to penetrate and cause tissue disruption and hemmoraging.
I don't question that someone with a .223 and a TSX/NPT could kill an Elk, it's more of a question of whether or not you should.

I know I am a little late to the party on this one and Elk have no doubt been killed/wounded by calibers from the .223 up through the .458 Win Mag. If someone has no other option and they are hunting for food, I don't take issue with that. I think that under ideal conditions in the hands of an expert it could be done,and has been done.

However, I don't think it is responsible to promote the use of the smallest caliber possible as a gimmick which may encorage other less experianced hunters to think they can do the same under less ideal conditions. I don't care if it is an AR or a heavy barrel bolt gun. I understand the need to challenge yourself, I use a recurve bow for all my archery hunting, and have for all of my life. I would say, if you want a challenge, use a .44 Mag open sight handgun, bow, etc.

I understand also that a lot of Elk are wounded each fall by guys banging away with .300 Ultras and 7mm's that watch too much outdoor channel and think they can kill Elk to 1000 because they shoot X caliber and saw it done on TV. Heck I saw a guy sighting in for Antelope with a .338 Lapua with a 1500 yard range card taped to the gun that couldnt hit a snuff can at 200 yards.
I guess it breaks down to is it legal to do so? Yep, in your state it is. In mine and most others it is not. Can it be used effectively with a bullet like the TSX? Yes. Is it as effective as a .30-06, .300 Win or other "Elk gun" using a TSX? Absolutely not.

Last edited by TakeEm; 03/05/12. Reason: spelling

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Another case of it's not fair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.


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Originally Posted by 1minute
Another case of it's not fair to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person.


Let me ask you this..How many different calibers have you seen cleanly take Elk/By that I mean, that you were there and part of the party/crew.Have you ever seen the .222/.22-250 or.223 used on Elk to have an opinion?

I have and they work in the right hands.I am not saying there the all around Elk caliber,I am saying they killed Elk each and every time I saw them used.

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Originally Posted by WyColoCowboy
Don't know anyone that considers a .243 an elk-killing machine. When that .223, 62 grain bullet hits bone, it disentegrates and leaves and injued animal that will likely not be found unless you make a perfect shot. In the real world of elk hunting, you don't always get a 75-yard shot like you do hunting whitetails in your back 40.

Elk hunting is a man's sport and needs a man's gun... LOL


Do you have any pictures of a 62 grain TSX or any solid copper bullet that disintegrated on bone or even a rock pile?I have shot alot of bullets into semi solid rock and the only two that did not disintegrate was the Barnes solid copper and the North Fork with a solid copper base.

Neither will disintegrate on bone..Guaranteed!!!!

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I don't question that someone with a .223 and a TSX/NPT could kill an Elk, it's more of a question of whether or not you should.


I don't understand this "should". If it's legal and one wants to one should. We have too many laws already. If you don't want to don't even if it's legal.


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Don’t know as I would use a .223 for elk, but I knew an old man in my youth with an entire garage wall full of deer skulls, each with a hole from a .22 rimfire through the temple. Which was the impetus for my several whitetail kills with a rimfire. Ruger 77/22. All less than 25 yards and all dropped at the shot. Knew several old men who learned to shoot in the Depression by getting an ass whipping if they brought home fewer carcasses than they left with shells for. They would laugh at a lot of the posters here. Would I hunt elk with a .223? Not if I could help it. But if that is what I had and I was hungry, elk would be supper. Likely via headshot from close range. Meat tastes better when you just flip the light switch.

I notice some folks talking down to folks who are saying it can be done have the word magnum or something indicating their preference for the magnums in their handle. Figures. I base my opinion of a hunter on his ability to put game in the truck reliably and with a minimum of fuss. What he uses to do that is his choice, and I could care less. We end up tracking game more than seldom, there is a problem. With the hunter, not the equipment.

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If we had elk around here I'd not hesitate to hunt them with a .223. I've killed a bunch of deer wth .22LR with no problem.. pretty sure I could dump elk with my .22 mag. just as easy.

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