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Originally Posted by Talus_in_Arizona
Wouldn't wolves eat a coyote rather than breed with it? And yeah, this could be an escapee.


Yes. Wolves don't tolerate coyotes, just as coyotes won't tolerate foxes. The only way that I could foresee an inbreeding situation, was if it was under a controlled (domesticated) intro-fertilization situation. In the wild, wolves try to consume whatever coyotes they come across.

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Maverick,
Red wolf/coyote hybrids are not unusual. Estrogen does strange things to critters and all bets are off when it is abundant.


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Originally Posted by BrentD
Maverick,
Red wolf/coyote hybrids are not unusual. Estrogen does strange things to critters and all bets are off when it is abundant.


Yes, the commonality of it was conducted at Texas A&M. There's quite a writ concerning the genetic engineering program done at that university. In the wild, however, there's no documentation as yet.

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No, there is a fair bit. A lot of folks that are not TAM have been involved in this and you can search around for a pretty fair literature on it. They do hybridize in the wild where red wolves have been reintroduced.


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Wouldn't wolves eat a coyote rather than breed with it?


Who knows what a wolf would "rather" do, but seems like a lot depends on that day's difference in basic drives. If hunger is stronger and the wolf can get the coyote, that is one thing. If the mating drive is stronger, that is another.

Same goes for dogs in this area. Rather recently, the "wolf experts/managers" down this way exterminated a bunch of pups pulled from a den because they were hybrids and would have "corrupted" their already corrupted hybrid wolf population - the wolf bitch had mated with a dog.

You figure it, eh?

Last edited by CCCC; 03/17/12.

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Brent:

Possibly in Old Mexico there might be, but in the Sitgreaves reintroduction area which encompasses the entire Arizona/New Mexico population, the population is pure and no hybridization has occurred. So, I'm not sure which agency you're citing.

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Maverick940: the entire Arizona/New Mexico population, the population is pure and no hybridization has occurred.
Well, this seems very interesting, and some "experts" in the area do not agree. Please provide the authoritative source for your statement. Thanks.


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Bearguide you believe what you may about size but the majority of song dogs in Eastern Ne and Western Iowa are carrying domestic dog DNA and can get quite large.BTW we have some in the Western part of the state that get upwards of 75 lbs,sorry your Canadian variety are midgets grin


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The majority of Iowa coyotes are dog hybrids? Who did this work?


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I was hoping you might be able to cite agency literature. As you know, lay science is highly suspect. Are there any agency accounts you can point to? That would be helpful.

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no lay science. Not even sure what that is. Agency work is poorly reviewed and generally of second tier quality where NOT published in the mainstream literature like these.

More than likely, these studies were funded by agencies of several sorts. Check the acknowledgements yourself. I know a few of the authors and they are the best of the bunch.


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I hunt on both sides of the Missouri river, my pards and I have taken many over the years that aren't pure coyote..some almost charcoal in color.I killed a really big one mottled in color out of my bow stand about 5 yrs ago so they are around.


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Originally Posted by BrentD
no lay science. Not even sure what that is. Agency work is poorly reviewed and generally of second tier quality where NOT published in the mainstream literature like these.

More than likely, these studies were funded by agencies of several sorts. Check the acknowledgements yourself. I know a few of the authors and they are the best of the bunch.


So you're saying that you don't trust the biologists who work for your own state's department?

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Maverick940: Would you kindly provide the authoritatve source to support your statement, as follows:?
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Maverick940: Brent: Possibly in Old Mexico there might be, but in the Sitgreaves reintroduction area which encompasses the entire Arizona/New Mexico population, the population is pure and no hybridization has occurred. So, I'm not sure which agency you're citing. Maverick

Thanks.


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Originally Posted by CCCC
Maverick940: Would you kindly provide the authoritatve source to support your statement, as follows:?
Quote
Maverick940: Brent: Possibly in Old Mexico there might be, but in the Sitgreaves reintroduction area which encompasses the entire Arizona/New Mexico population, the population is pure and no hybridization has occurred. So, I'm not sure which agency you're citing. Maverick

Thanks.


In relation to Mexican Grey Wolf reintroduced populations:

New Mexico Game and Fish; Arizona Game and Fish; Department of the Interior, United States Fish and Wildlife Service, National Park Service; Department of Agriculture, National Forest Service.

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Coyote my A$$ crazy

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Originally Posted by FlyboyFlem
I hunt on both sides of the Missouri river, my pards and I have taken many over the years that aren't pure coyote..some almost charcoal in color.I killed a really big one mottled in color out of my bow stand about 5 yrs ago so they are around.


Woody,
You and I share the same basic area, except I'm about 90 miles north of you. We have taken and seen some of the dark gray 'yotes and have seen one of the mottled charcoal dudes. However, all of them had the face and tail and were the size of a coyote. I don't know if they are hybrids or if it is a color phase.

I know that none of them looked like the canine in the picture.

Years ago we had a BIG dark canine that we nicknamed "The Bass Singer" he sounded like a bass trombone when he vocalized. He always seemed to be in an area between the Elkhorn river and some feedlots in the sandhills. Saw him twice but never close enough to get a shot. Then he disappeared. A couple years later my oldest daughter and I were calling in a really brushy oxbow right on the river at night. It was during the rut and I had challenged called a few times with nothing answering. Then - I heard something breaking thru the crust on the snow. I challenge called again and got an immediate answer that rattled the filings in my teeth. Bass singer or his progeny was back! My daughter, who was in her mid-20's at the time, and an experienced caller/hunter, stood straight up and said out loud: "I'm going back to the truck!!" End of that hunt.

I would guess that there was more than a little woof blood in that critter too.

Johnny $


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Wish I could dig it out but took a pic several years ago of one really big one in a group of 4 that came by at first light as I just got in my stand.Charcoal in color and at least 1/3 larger than the rest with a not so bushy tail[no mange either].I know these aren't wolf or chupacabra crosses and too numerous to be mutations so I'm confident they have domestic canine DNA or what else could it be? eek grin


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