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It doesn't have to be either/or. However in our experience shooters have been faster and more accurate running turrets. Zero at 100 yards and then when hunting dial up for a 250yd zero and then you don't have to touch it until around 350 yards. Past that you will shoot better (which means faster) aiming right at what you want to hit. Aim dead on out to 250 yds. Favor high at 300. And backline at 350. Ballistic reticles do nothing for you under 350 or so.

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My Burris FFII Tactical 3-9 has the ballistic plex and turrets. I'm happy with it, but am just starting to use the turrets for longer plinking.


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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
One of the most talked about and discussed topics on this board seems to be whether turrets or bullet drop compensating (BDC) reticles are better for hunting. The common theme seems to be that the masses believe reticles are "faster" but turrets are more "accurate" at distance. It seems to make sense, but is that really the case?


I'm going to present my observations and experiences using both over the last decade and would greatly like to hear yours.


Neither are more accurate if you don't test and practice with them.

That being said - some people are spooky on turning turrets and having them return to zero - Jeff_O is ______ retentive / compulsive on it - and not in good way.
So if you don't trust turret turning - just say no.

I think it's all personal pref. I like the Leupold Varmint reticles because I can outshoot most of the guys with me with the dang things.
If I was competing against myself more I may flip the other way and use turrets. Another funky thing is "non-zero" stop turrets - may people using turrets the first time forget where thier zero is - and that's not funny, they get pissed quick and then don't want to trust the turrets again.

Trust is mistated - it's really how much you trust yourself to hit using the method at hand - again practice.

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trust is a product of practice.

i'm very much in Form's camp: zero100/dial in PBR when leaving the truck/dial from there when stretching it out


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Why zero at 100 then dial in PBR, why not just zero further out?


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both for ease of checking zero at local ranges and the ability to dial spot-on for a short range head shot or whatever without holding under.

but i do have a 6x36 that i had both CDS and LR dots installed in, and the dots require a 200 or 250 yard zero.

in the end, it's just a number on the knob, except a 100 yard zero gives you the ability to dial 100-~700 and the 250 yard zero gives you 250-~750 with the 15 moa you get with one turn of a Leupold knob


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toad's got it. It's very easy to find somewhere to shoot 70-120 yards to get a zero/check a zero. Almost all who "zero" at 200 or 250 etc. really zero high at 100 and guess that they're zeroed for the longer range. Also, if you zero at 100 it means that your are always dialing up. If you zero at 250yds say, and you want to check you gun but you've only got a 100 yard range like most places, you either guess that your as high as you are supposed to be or you dial down.


Not a big deal either way as it's just a number, however it's very easy to find a 70-120 yard place to shoot and you are always dialing up.

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I have two turrets with 100 yd. zero, another at 200.

With my 45-70, I used 100 yds, because 300 yds is about a stretch for that round. My 6.5-284 has a 200 yd. zero and will crank to 650 or so.

Guess it depends a lot on the round and the application.

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Your explanations make sense, but personally I zero at 2 or 250, and shoot to see where I'm at at 100. If I need to check zero and can only shoot to 100 I know where I need to be. But I really only shoot a couple rifles so it's not much to remember. I've never used turrets till very recently and am just now starting to play with them. I like a 250 zero with my 22-250ai because it allows me to hold on hair for a long ways, and use the hash marks beyond that. I don't honestly see myself switching over to the turrets, but heck who knows, the more I use them the more I may like them.


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Formidilosus,

Thank you for taking the time to explain turrets vs BDCs and how to roll with them. I learned a lot.


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Originally Posted by Formidilosus
Jeff O, no doubt about it. If you dial the scope HAS to track perfectly. VERY few do. And I think that is one reason people are attracted to reticles, other then it seeming to be "easier"' Personally, because I refuse to worry about a scope holding zero or adjusting properly I have no use for 99% of optics. As long as I can see well enough to place the crosshair on the target the glass is good enough and all that matters is if the rifle will hit.

I have seen to many of them lose zero from small bumps (or nothing at all), inconsistent adjustments, and wandering zero. I dealt with that for years trying to baby my rifles so they wouldn't get their feelings hurt. I'm done with that. I don't use Swaro's, Zeiss's, Weaver's, Burris's, Nikons, Votex's, most Bushnell's, and most Leupolds, simply because they fail. They fail to hold zero, they fail to adjust 100% consistently every time and they fail to do it for years of use. It doesn't matter how clear the glass is if it fails. Others may not feel this way and that's ok, but this is where we see a lot of frustrated posts of problem optics, or things that simply "cant be done".

There are scopes out there that are clear, have bombproof tracking, durability and consistency.


Target, tactical,and BR shooters seem to find this stuff out faster than (some) hunters having lower round count.....no matter which system you use,if your scope is not reliable,consistent, and durable, you have nothing.

I don't have a turret scope and FD'osis nailed the reason.I'll save and get the best I can before messing with it.




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Using dots isn't without it's problems, either. Some of the scopes I have had with dots have so much parallax that pretending the dots gives you precision aiming is laughable. Even with a small amount of head movement, (what would amount to a pretty consistent cheek weld), the dots move more than a minute of angle.
One of less stellar scopes to fall into my hands is my favorite Leupold 6X, both the 6X42 version and the 6X36 version. When I sent the 6X36 back and had it corrected to 400 yards, it came back with vert very little parallax at any range. One of the best non AO scopes I have, interestingly enough, is an old Weaver 3X9.

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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
Your explanations make sense, but personally I zero at 2 or 250, and shoot to see where I'm at at 100. If I need to check zero and can only shoot to 100 I know where I need to be. But I really only shoot a couple rifles so it's not much to remember. I've never used turrets till very recently and am just now starting to play with them. I like a 250 zero with my 22-250ai because it allows me to hold on hair for a long ways, and use the hash marks beyond that. I don't honestly see myself switching over to the turrets, but heck who knows, the more I use them the more I may like them.


You seemed to like those fuggin' turrets just fine yesterday... grin


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I'm coming around. One lucky day at the range doesn't make me a turret disciple, but I am a believer.


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First off, there needs to be a distinction between big game and and varmint hunting. In addition,setting the drop at given ranges requires considerable time and energy checking the drop tables for accuracy.As a varmint hunter, primarly Rockchucks, there are times when we only see a head. Without a RF and turrets, one has a better than 50% chance of missing.

I have been using a Burris 6-18 with turrets for 17 years.When trying to explain how it works, you can see the eyes roll back in head of those wanting to learn. It just takes time to wrap ones head around the process.

I had one trip where the only thing I saw on chucks, was the head. Without turrets and RF,I would have had minimal success. AS it was, I killed 12 with head shots, and that was all I saw.

I think to successfully use turrets, one has to almost be an absolute gun nut and does not like failing.

Last edited by FredWillis; 03/29/12.
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Originally Posted by BillyGoatGruff
I'm coming around. One lucky day at the range doesn't make me a turret disciple, but I am a believer.


Well, we sure as hell can't say the dots weren't working...

But I still like the precision of the turrets. And on dog sized targets, I'm not convinced the dots will always get it done.


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That turrets are more precise I cannot argue.


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Originally Posted by FredWillis
First off, there needs to be a distinction between big game and and varmint hunting. In addition,setting the drop at given ranges requires considerable time and energy checking the drop tables for accuracy.As a varmint hunter, primarly Rockchucks, there are times when we only see a head. Without a RF and turrets, one has a better than 50% chance of missing.

I have been using a Burris 6-18 with turrets for 17 years.When trying to explain how it works, you can see the eyes roll back in head of those wanting to learn. It just takes time to wrap ones head around the process.

I had one trip where the only thing I saw on chucks, was the head. Without turrets and RF,I would have had minimal success. AS it was, I killed 12 with head shots, and that was all I saw.

I think to successfully use turrets, one has to almost be an absolute gun nut and does not like failing.


I agree. I find the turrets better suited for shooting like you describe.

I do not agree turrets are tough to learn with. Once you have your dope, it's pretty easy to explain it to a new shooter.


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Originally Posted by FredWillis

I think to successfully use turrets, one has to almost be an absolute gun nut...


Goes without saying... laugh

Gun nuts well represented on the Fire.

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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by FredWillis
First off, there needs to be a distinction between big game and and varmint hunting. In addition,setting the drop at given ranges requires considerable time and energy checking the drop tables for accuracy.As a varmint hunter, primarly Rockchucks, there are times when we only see a head. Without a RF and turrets, one has a better than 50% chance of missing.

I have been using a Burris 6-18 with turrets for 17 years.When trying to explain how it works, you can see the eyes roll back in head of those wanting to learn. It just takes time to wrap ones head around the process.

I had one trip where the only thing I saw on chucks, was the head. Without turrets and RF,I would have had minimal success. AS it was, I killed 12 with head shots, and that was all I saw.

I think to successfully use turrets, one has to almost be an absolute gun nut and does not like failing.


I agree. I find the turrets better suited for shooting like you describe.

I do not agree turrets are tough to learn with. Once you have your dope, it's pretty easy to explain it to a new shooter.


Travis


For hunters and dummies, just go with the yardage turrets.

DF

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