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What are the differencs between a BRNO ZG 47 action, and a 21H?

What type scope rings do they take?

Thanks in advance for any info,and pictures are always welcome.

The 21 is a small ring,the ZG47 is a large. Most all ZG47's are square bridges with dovetails that Talley makes a very nice ring set-up.The 21's can be round top that need D/T'ed,later ones were also flat tops.I have some of both that I may be able to photo for you.

Bob,

I have a double square bridge custom on a 21H that Dennis Erhardt put together for me.

If you'd like pics, PM me your e-mail, as I'm not sure I still have it.

rifle/Doug: Ahh, I see. OK thanks.I have never owned either of these.

Was wondering where a guy got rings to fit those dovetails...

Did you guys stick with the factory triggers/safties,or use after market? I like the safety on the ZG 47....would the 21H safety need to be swapped out for a M70 type?

Tag.

I have ten of these rifles, will pick up two more later today and have had some others. They are the finest production actions ever offered by anyone and are perfect for building custom sporters. I might add that Duane Weibe and Ralf Martini have agreed with my opinion on this in phone conversations.

The safety-bolt lock on the 21 small ring series needs to be changed, as it does not lock the bolt, unacceptable in a hunting rifle to me,but, some later examples of this were fitted with the ZG bolts,with that safety and round knobs....these are HIGHLY desireable and very rare in Canada.

The ZG-47 safety works very well, BUT, in reverse to what we are all used to. One needs a Mauser 98 cocking piece to change this to a 3-pos. as I do the ZGs I have that I will seriously hunt...some are just safe queens, too minty to use.

The ZGs come in both vapour-blasted and polished receivers(rare) and in several stock-barrel configurations. They typically are not quite as nicely finished as the earlier 21 series, also available in several configuations.

There were about 42000 21 and 21000 ZG rifles made, most exported to Canada, Australia, Africa and Scandinavia,from what I can find and they are NOT easy to find, but, buying a minty one is far more satisfying than finding a minty P-64 Mod. 70 and they are much finer rifles.

There are various factory rings available,Alaska Arms and Ragner make "Burgess-type" rings and I use Talley QD screw rings on mine that I actively hunt. The Talleys holding a 4x Zeiss Conquest on my factory ZG in 9.3x62 restocked in Micky Edge MKX handle work VERY well and this is among the finest and most shootable rifles of the 125 or so big game rifles I have owned since 1965.

I also change the triggers on those actions I customize and am going to try to new Alaska Arms offering, but, it is a tad pricey. That said, ya gets what ya pays for and these actions deserve the finest.

HTH, Bob, I can see that you are getting ready to..........

Kutenay as always thanks for the great info.....largely as a result of what you have posted on these rifles, I am dveloping an interest,and whether as an action for a custom, or a complete rifle.

The other posters have covered things pretty well, and I would just add a few comments.

The original 21H/22F butterknife bolt handle does stick up a bit when opened, and requires a higher scope mounting for the bolt handle to clear. If you are used to the old FN Mauser scope safety on the left side the 21H/22F safety works exactly the same way, except that as Kutenay has pointed out, it does not lock the bolt as the FN Mauser safety did. The original bolt sleeve safety works well with the higher scope mounting IMO, however if you want a lower scope mounting the bolt handle has to be modified, and in that case the original safety is difficult to disengage because it lies right up against the ocular bell of the scope. So a low scope mount requires the 21H/22F bolt handle to be modified and also the safety replaced for best results. If you are used to the Win 70 type safety then the equivalent design for a Mauser 98 will work perfectly.

The 21H/22F do have two cost-cutting measures that I am aware of compared to a standard 98 Mauser design: 1) the magazine box is stamped rather than milled integral with the trigger guard and 2) the magazine follower is stamped.

The ZG-47, OTOH, does not need any bolt handle modification for a low mount safety. It also has a stamped magazine box but at least on my sample, the magazine follower is milled. FWIW, the late Jack O'Connor wrote in the Rifle book, "In my opinion the best Mauser-type action ever made in Europe was the [ZG-47] model turned out at Brno in Czechoslovakia." although he called it the ZKK, which was a later model. However from his description, plus a picture of the custom .280 Rem that he had built on an action, it clearly was a ZG-47. Also, a year or so ago the Champlin Arms website had a ZG-47 for sale with the following, "The great metalsmith, Mr. Tom Burgess, told me personally he thought it was the best action made in the post-war era."

Also, unlike FN after about 1948, Brno did not cheapen the action by milling out the internal receiver ring on the left side - they are all "C" ring actions.

The double square bridge scope dovetails have been unchanged from the 21H through the ZG-47, ZKK600's and CZ550 series, and have a recess in the rear bridge on the left side that acts as a recoil shoulder. Brno/CZ rings have an extension on the rear ring that fits in the recess. As for rings, I believe the Talley's only come in one height, Warne makes rings in two heights and Alaska Arms come in three heights. I think the CZ rings come in one height. Lynx and Burris also make rings. Most of these rings mount the scope anywhere from around 0.3" to 0.5:" above the top of the dovetails. If you want to retain the original 21H bolt handle, the heights of these rings are somewhat on the low side for most oculars, with the exception of an old set of Lynx high rings I have which are about 0.6" high,but original Brno mounts show up from time to time on eBay that mount the scope even higher, up to around 0.74" above the dovetails. The original Brno mount bases are quite intricately machined and despite their blocky, massive looking bases are quite light because they use aluminum rings and bases with a steel clamping jaw and screw. The clamping jaw is a T-shape with the sides and top of the "T" supported on all sides by the surrounding base, and the bottom of the "T" on the rear base fitting into the recess in the receiver ring.

Klin: Great post and very informative.Thanks.

I do recall that Champlin rifle;and I guess it was one of these actions O'Connor used for that Earl Milliron rifle he built.Again thanks for your insight.


BTW and a slightly different subject, but I notice Alaska Arms makes a M70-style trigger for 98 Mausers,which seems like a really good idea. Anyone have any experience with these?

There are a number of variations on the basic 21/22 action, some with a roundbolt and single trigger, others with the ZG-type bolt and both "flattops" and earlier round actions. Most of these last lack the Mauser guide rib on the bolt and some have clip slots as the original "Patterne 98" Mausers had.

The later ZG-47s were also varied in some respects and are NOT as nicely finished as the 21/22 series, as well as having the biggest PITA trigger ever offered in a rifle worth serious attention. The older "flattops" varied in finish. but, were all the same dimensions from the 21/22 to the 550s.

The stamped parts are not an issue, to me, in fact, I prefer the ZG-47 bottom metal to ANY other type I have owned, this includes custom Mausers by famed German makers, an original "Obie" sporter, various 21/22 rifles, I have had eight of these and just bought my sixth now in possession, yesterday and the aftermarket offerings by Sunnyhill, Blackburn and Duane Weibe.

I will not go into details of "why" but, I try to find ZG bm to install on all of my "using" 21/22 rifles and it works very well.

I would not consider the ZG to be superior to the earlier 21/22 actions, in anything, the reverse is true. O'Connor, was a college teacher who had a pretty large ego and a poor reputation here in Canada, where he "hunted" by means of having Canadian guides find his game for him. His comments show that he actually knew very little about these rifles and I have also owned several ZKKs, from their introduction here in BC in 1968 to last year.

For building a fine custom sporter in a standard chambering, to be as light as practical and still be crf, the 21/22 actions are in a class of their own. All one needs do, is pop in a good trigger and change the safety and install good rings and a barrel. Stock to suit with a higher comb and you have a superb rifle that will work in the worst conditions.

The bluing and general finish on these is FAR superior to ANY other I have seen, including the vaunted Mannlicher-Schoenaur rifles and it wears like iron.

I can shoot the original stock, butterknife handle and the 7x57 I bought yesterday will remain original and I will hunt it, except for changing to a factory original single trigger and bottom metal I have, as the DSTs are hooped and intalling a thin pad plus a 3-pos safety. A full glassing to keep the stock from cracking, as many have and I am good to go.....very nice rifle for $600.00 as was the ZG I grabbed for my best buddy at $700.00.

If, one desires a milled BM, no problem, but,I have had a total of five ZGs and eight 21 rifles since 1965 and have never had an issue with the factory units.

I have a friend with another very choice factory 9.3 and an 8x64 and I have been "working on him" for over twoyears...........can you say, "hooked"........

I think Bob has seen the error of his ways, is selling all his 270s, and replacing w/ 7x57s!!

Bob,

I recently installed an Alaska Arms M70-style trigger on an FN action that's being made into a custom rifle (in .270 Winchester, if you're interested), and it worked great. The instructions are a little skimpy, but I've worked on a lot of triggers and got it installed and adjusted to 2-1/2 pounds in less than half an hour. In fact in my experience the pull and adjustment were better than on 95% of pre-'64 Model 70's.

JB: Thanks for the info on the trigger...I was pleased to see that trigger as an after market accessory.It fills a gap for me as I always liked Mauser actions real well, but wanted a M70 trigger for them. I am going to stash one of those away...

Kutenay,as always an education reading what you have to say about the BRNO's....you write of them with a lot or passion and I can tell you were lip-hooked long ago on BRNO Mausers and are still floppin' on that hook ...I am intrigued by their style, utility,and relative scarcity (at least here).

Ever sonce I first saw what I think was a post war Hornet, I was fascinated by the BRNO rifles.

efw: If I came across a BRNO 7x57 that I liked I hunt that 7x57 which is among my favorite cartridges. I would reach for one in a second....if there were no 270's within arms reach....

JB and Bob,

Did you guys clear that .270 business with Ingwe...?

Agree with Bob on Kutaney's postings...

DF

DF,

At one point (maybe 20 years ago?) I'd taken more big game with the .270 than any other round, but sometime around then the .30-06 pulled ahead. Ingwe thought that was OK, and in the past 15 years I've taken over 5 times as many animals with the 7x57 as the .270, which affected his attitude considerably.

Of course, he'd be happier if I didn't use the .270 at all, which may have been one of the tiny reasons for the chambering of this latest custom rifle. We've got to help him grump about things. Otherwise he'd lose his Campfire persona....

Well John, your testimony, if given an overall weighted average, your last 15 years receiving more credit than your misspent youth, I can see how Ingwe may have decided to give you a pass...

OTOH, he may see this recent digression as slipping back into the morass from whence you evolved. But, I feel sure he'll be there for you, to again extend his hand...

DF

Yeah, probably--specially if I have some extra bullets, brass or powder I'm giving away!

DF: I did not....I am beyond redemption....

For sure...!

DF

Be it a 30/06 Springfield, a 270 Win, or a 7x57 Mauser.... The deer you shoot is not going to care whichever cartridge you shot her with.