Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only .444 Marlin - good for big bear?

Is the .444 Marlin a good caliber for big bear, such as brown, grizzly, etc.?

Thanks in advance for all replies.

Good for and might work OK for are two different things. With a good 300 grain or better bullet I would categorize the .444 as an OK round, but there are much better choices out there. If one is going to spend the money for a Griz hunt, why not add in another 600-800 for a GOOD big bear gun? If one wants to stick with lever guns, the 45-70 is a far superior choice. For a hunter (not neccesarily the guide) I think that we should not try to re-invent the wheel and go with a CRF bolt gun in 338MAG, 375Mag or something else in that range. All that said, if you are a resident and not having to pay an outrageous guide fee, can hunt until you get close and have a .444 that you like then by all means load up some 330 LBT's or such and have at 'em!

So you'd suggest the .450 Marlin over the .444 Marlin for the big stuff?

(P.S. I don't like the .45-70 Gov't, as you have to handload it to get it's potential, and sometimes I just want to buy the factory load).

(P.P.S. Obviously I'm confining my question to lever guns here)

For bears I would look to the ammo from Buffaloe Bore, and Corbon,, thats for bears as in BIG BLACKS, don't know enough about the Grizz or Coasties to say.

If you want to stay with factory loads, by all means the .450, but in 45-70 there are, as mentioned, the loads from Buffalo bore and others. Master Guide Ed Stevenson of Wassilla Alaska uses browning (Winchester 1895 clones) model 1895's in various wildcat calibers such as 411 Hawk and some Scovill chamberings, two of his guides that I have met use 45-70's, but these are for getting people out of jams, not general hunting of bears. If you love 'em, use 'em but you will be limited in what shots you can take and I dont think that any of the guides reccomend such a weapon as a primary hunting tool. The 450 Marlin and the hot rodded 45-70 are much more powerful than a .444 is capable of becoming.

I bought my original edition .444 from a friend who carried it in Alaska for bear protection while working as an engineer on sawmills. He never had to fire it, but felt confident. Everyone carried a .45-70 or .444 as they walked through the woods, and one of his co-workers killed very large belligerant black bear at close range with one shot that entered the neck, broke the shoulder and spine, and exited at the backstrap in front of the hip.

Beretta, Merkel, Kreighoff and others offer the .444 in O/U double rifles for stalking wild boar, which run 400 to 500 lbs in Europe, and are more dangerous than most black bears.

The Hornady 265-gr and Speer 270-gr are great bullets.
I would like to try the Barnes 300 gr at 2100 fps.
That, or one of the hard cast 300 to 325 grain bullets should work. Go to Buffalo Bore's website and read their 3-part article.

Are you talking hunting them or defense?

I'd say for hunting, a scoped 338 win mag or 375 H&H is good. Hunting can call for longer shots, or precise shots in thick cover and poor lighting. I don't see the quick follow up shots of a lever gun as a fair trade for the most important precise first shot that I'd want to deliver from a scoped accurate bolt gun. I'd also venture to say that the terminal performance of a best quality expanding bullet from a 338 or 375 would be better than a 444.

444 Not good for bear, it kills bear dead, bears find that very bad.

I prefer a 370 gr .416" bullet at 2300fps, but it's hard to argue with a 300 gr .429" bullet at 2100fps. Get a bit closer to the critter with the 444 , and your talking darn near the same energy.

Got to consider that lever actions have lot's of moving parts, compared to bolt actions.

Also have to find suitable bullets, with a wide meplat for safety in that tubular magazine.

I'd say the cartridge is fine, it's the rifle that may come in question. Or not.

I have a .444 now, have had several others, and like the rifle (Win 94 Black Shadow) quite a lot. The biggest issue with the .444 is bullet selection. Factory loads are mostly assembled with 240 gr pistol bullets, which is a Very Bad Thing. If you can find Hornady 265's, that's better. My handloads use 270 Speer Gold Dots at 2100 fps. Accurate and easy (?) to shoot. The caribou bull I shot with the load and rifle tipped over and turned upsidedown, so I think it works <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I have 300 gr loads running at 2200 fps, as well, and they aren't straining anything. The 320 gr Buffalo Bore hard cast loads run about the same; I cannot imagine a brown bear standing up to good hits with such loads, were the bear in arguing range.

Not a round or rifle I would take on a "bear hunt"; but one I carry readily in "bear country" -- and one in which I obviously feel confidence.

MOntana Precision Swaging can produce 350 grain paper patch bullets for the .444, but I don't know if they will stabilize at that length. Would be about an inch long +/- a few thou. 300 grain bullets from the same die run .86" and work fine in a 1:20 twist. All I know so far is they'll go thru a hog shoulder and stop on the off side ham. About 22-23". Harder alloy than dead soft I shoot would likely work better for bear.

If you could spring for it I'd buy the win 1895 in .405 winchester.

As stated above, if you think you are going to shoot an unaware bear from 100 yards, then use a .338 or .375 with a scope.

If you have to stoop and crawl in thick brush, and maybe take the first shot inside 20 yards, I would carry a lever action in .444, .45-70 or .405 Win, unless you have a .375 H&H or 9.3x74R double rifle handy.

Listed under the "Tech Notes" section at Beartoothbullets.com they have some excellent reading about the 444. They have done some very extensive testing with hard cast bullets in both slow and fast twist Marlin rifles. Accuracy is absolutely first rate with all but the 405 gr bullets in either rifle. I think any bear would have a tough time arguing with a 355 gr WLNGC bullet started at better than 2100fps.

RLB -- I have one of those -- and it's way too heavy and long for what I use the .444 Win 94 for. To say nothing of too pretty to drag through these woods <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />.

I would trust my 45-70 any day for brown bears. I use the 430 gr HC from Buffalo Bore at 2200fps and it shoots 1-1/2" groups at 100 yards. It will for a fact penetrate with anything that has been listed here. I dont see the problem. It is handy, it is powerful and it is accurate. Anything else?

There are far more powerful 45/70 factory loads out there than 444 loads. PMC makes a nice hot 45/70 load that is very reasonably priced, garret, buffalobore, and grizly ammo are all powerful loads.

Will a .375 H&H kill a big bear with a 300-gr bullet impacting at 2100 fps 150 yards from the muzzle? You betcha.

How about 2000 fps? You betcha.

A 300-gr bullet from a .444 at 2000 fps? I betcha.

THe main problem isn't weight and velosity, its bullet constuction. The 300gr 375 has a SD of .305 for the nosler partition, the 300gr Hornady XTP has a SD of .232, so the 375 is likely to penetrate better. Add to that the fact that the 375 was designed for deep penetration in havey game at magnum velosities and the fact that the 300gr XTP was designed for pistol velosities, just like all other 429 cal bullets with the possible exception of the 265gr hornady designed for the 444. Even then the manufacturer doesn't recomend it for big bears, its just not designed to penetrat that heavy of game. The average use of the 444 os deer/blackbear and unfortunately this isn't a situation of one size fits all.

SD changes at the moment of impact, and not as relevant as people believe for expanding bullets. It is relevant for solid bullets, which is where it was first used as a datum of comparison for African bullets.

My .444 with a 300-gr Hornady XTP will outpenetrate my .30-06 firing any premium 180-gr bullet into the same medium. The .30 caliber bullets are traveling much faster, and both the .444 and .30-06 have the same kinetic energy. The .444 has more momentum.

No one will dispute that the 444 will kill a big bear, but the question is, is it good for big bear?

And to that question, one has to look at the ranges and conditions big bears are hunted in. When that is factored, as well as the $12-15,000 for the non res guided hunt, I'd say the 444 lever gun is resounding not a good choice. A 338 win mag or 375 H&H are most definately good choices.

I would put the .444 in the same class as a hot .30-06 load of 180-gr TBBC or Swift inside 100 yards. The closer I get, the more I want my .375 H&H. Of course, your guide is probably going to be carrying one of those, and people kill big bears with arrows inside 10 yards.

People shoot clean thru grizzly bears with bows inside 30 yards, but comparing arrows to bullets is like comparing apples to oranges. The arrow kills by hemorage not shock.

As to your 300gr XTP outpenetrating a 180gr TBBC I would have to see that to believe it, I haven't been very impressed with 300gr XTP penetration out of an 454 cassul or magnum muzle loaders. You definately welcome to use whatever rifle you may want, and lucklily you will have a guide that will back you up if things go wrong. I never hunt with a guide so I use a more adequate gun from the start. My bear guns are 338 RUM w/ 225gr Accubond @ 3150, 9.3x62 w/286gr partiton @ 2400, 375 H&H with 270gr TSX @ 2700fps, or 300gr partition @ 2550. For backup work or really thick cover I use a guide gun w/ 405gr kodiak bonded @ 1925fps.

Aside from a good hard cast I have yet to see a 429cal bullet that I would call adequate for big bears when driven to 444 velosities.

I wasn't comparing an arrow to any bullet, but noting that bowhunters take large bears inside 20 yards using a single shot weapon that has no "knock down power" and requires a lot longer to kill the animal.

In the past, I have posted the US Forest Service study on rifles for defensive use against bears, which ranked the .444 at the top. Another study I posted was a survey of bear guides and records of client kills. Interestingly, the .270 Win was at the top for one-shot kills, probably due to hunter skill and patience in shot selection.

If you read my post again, you will see that I said I would choose a my .375 H&H for intentional bear stalking. The fact remains that the .444 is, in the opinion of experts who have used it, superior to the .30-06 and .300 H&H. Its penetration through almost 3 feet of tight, wet magazines indicates to me that it would probably shoot through any bear at the angle one should be shooting. It is certainly capable of much faster 2nd and 3rd shots than a bolt action.

Here is an example of a .375 JDJ (necked down.444 Marlin )taking cape buffalo from a handgun:
http://www.americanshooting.com/American%20Shooting%20nine%20l.html

Once again the 375 is shooting bullets of better construction than a pistol bullet pushed to fast.

Arrowing a bear is actually safer than shooting one with a rifle. If your smart the bear never knows where you are or what just happened, often just looking around for a minute then walking a short ways and collapsing. 90% of the time an arrow shot bear either runs the direction its facing or back where it came from never knowing why it doesnt feel so good all of the sudden. THe arrow zips thru so fast they don't really feel it like they do a gunshot.

When you shoot one with a gun you make plenty of noise along with the shock and they tend to associate the two together istantly marking you as the enemy, and source of thier discomfort.

My problem isn't with the 444 case, its the bullets that are availbable for it. All too often 240gr pistol bullets are pushed well beyond thier ability hold together. If there were more bullets actually designed for the 444 as a rifle I wouldn't think twice about it. Maybe a heavier version of the new hornady lever revelution. There are some decent bullets out there, the hard cast, and a few jacketed bullets like hawks heavy jacked 300gr RN and SP. An all copper flat point solid like the belt mountain punch bullet would be another good one. THe 444 is just hamstringed by bullet selection when truly big game is concerned.

Actually the 444 is hamstrung with two things, one being the bullets, and the other is a slow barrel twist that barely stabalizes the heaviest of current bullets.

I'd imagine with a fast twist and a tougher 350 gr bullet @~1800 fps, the 444 would be a credible big bear gun.

As it is the, the 444 is about a 3/4 size 45-70, but without the same choice of bullets, and without a fast enough twist to stabalize heavies.

Marlin 444s have had a 1:20" twist since 1999. Beartooth makes 355 grain and 405 grain bullets for the 444.

So I did a little research. Barnes Manual #1 shows the 45-70 holding 75.5gr of water, to the 444's 69.5gr. An 8% advantage to the 45-70 since both cases are so similar in configuration. Beartooth bullets shows their 355gr WLNGC bullet (a very fine hard cast unit) reaching 2154fps, behind 45gr of RL-7. AND they got 3/4" accuracy with the old slow twist 22" barrel. That same 355gr bullet has a SD of .276, which happens to be exactly the same as a 405gr .458 bullet. So, while the 45-70 really can be more powerful than the 444, the margin of victory really isn't as great as most have lead us to believe. Having said all that and having owned a Marlin model 444S for the last 15 yrs, if I had to do it over I'd get the 45-70. BUT....for the marginal upgrade in power it's not worth the cost of trading firearms and purchasing new dies. So I'll keep pluggin' along with my 444.
ps- I also realize that MUCH heavier bullets are available for the 45-70.

I will agree that the 45-70,458 etc offer some gain over the .444.That's not the question.How dead is dead enough.First off,let's eliminate the pistol bullet argument .Saying .444 bullets aren't up to bear standards is like saying the .270 is no good for deer,because those 90 HP's blow up really easy.Of course they do, that's why no one recommends them for deer.Well, no one recommends using a 240 gr bullet for big bears either.Bullet selection is no concern,as Beartooth,Cast Performance,Barnes and Buffalo Bore all make very good,suitable bullets.These bullets are accessible to anyone,so what's the problem?None of the calibre's mentioned are any good if the wrong bullet/load is used.Therefore,one must assume that the correct type of bullet will be used.As far as heavy bullets go,the idea that they wont't stabilize is mostly held by people who have never tried it or even seen it tried.Visit Beartooth Bullets and you'll see even older Marlin's,supposedly the worst offender's,shoot heavy bullets very well.And most latter .444's have a faster rate of twist.Given a choice of rifles to use on big bears at reasonable range,say 150 yds and less,I'll take my .444 with some hardcast 330's over any .338 Win. out there.Oh yeah,Paco Kelly is taking his .444 to Africa this year.That should be an eye opener.

A lot of old wives tales still persist about
"the 240-gr handgun bullet in a .444",
"the .444 cannot stabilize heavy bullets"
and "the Marlin Micro-groove cannot shoot cast bullets".

Go read the 3 articles on Beartooth Bullets website.
Borrow a .444, load it with some 240-gr Remingtons, Hornady 265-gr , and Hornady 300-gr factory loads, and shoot it for groups and into something substantial, like 36 inches of wet potter's clay.

potters clay doesn't have 4' claws and lots of sharp teeth. I can't rmemeber the last time a lump of potters clay mauled anyong either.

These threads always crack me up. There are some loads out there in cast and jacketed that take the 444 Marlin up quite a few notches in capability. Ammo such as CorBon, Buffalo Bore, and Grizzly all offer jacketed and cast loads up to 330 grains all between 2050 fps and 2300 fps. Beartooth, as already stated, offers 355 and 405 grain cast bullets.

The twist is much faster today with 1-20 in Marlins. Some Winchester Black Shadow Big Bores were offered with 1-12 in the 444 Marlin. I have one of the latter.

What gets me somewhat chuckling is the fact that any of the loads above absolutely smoke a 454 Casull load at any range, and we know what the Casull is capable of. The reason I compare this is that many hunters take the great bears of the Northwest with the Casull, yet many think the 444 Marlin is only slightly more powerful than the 44 Remington Mag. One could not be more mistaken. If you use the heavy bullets (330-355 grains) loaded at the high end, you will generate 3500-3700 ft-lbs and open up a hole with starting diameter of .430-inches. I point this out because the great 375 H&H starts a 300 grainer at 2550 fps and 4200 ft-lbs with a .375 diameter. Out to 100 yards the 444 Marlin is every bit the equal in knocking down thin skin game as the 375 H&H is.

Obviously the 45-70 can generate more muscle and therefore is a more viable choice for guide gunning; however, for the hunter using the loads above, the 444 Marlin is plenty capable of taking all the large bears of North America and would certainly do fine on all the antelope running through the African Continent.

Consider again Brian Pearce shooting through two cape buffalo at 80 yards broadside with a 45-70 loaded with the CorBon 405 Penetrator solid flat nose ammunition. The second shot went in the high hammy and penetrated 6-ft to the chest. This load left the lever gun at 1680 fps, the PH was amazed that this load went completely through the bull and completely through the matriarc behind him. The reason this is interesting to me is that the same bullet is available in the 444 Marlin 305 grain ammunition. The only difference is the muzzle velocity of the 305 grain Penetrator load comes out at 2150 fps in short levers (20 inch-22 inch barrels).

I'm not advocating the use of a 444 Marlin on the likes of cape buffalo, although I do believe you could take one with that load. You can rest assured that the CorBon 280 soft point at 2300 fps backed up by the solids would cut a bear to pieces and take all the antelope Africa has to offer with little fuss.

The 444 Marlin is much better than all the negative b.s. the phoney gun writers ever penned about it. None who wrote of it ever took it to the limits it was meant for. Today, it is a different story and one really cannot discount its power. Like so many other cartridges, its paper ballistics do not match its killing power. But the same is said of the 375 H&H and 358 Winchester.

Well done!

Quote:--"The reason this is interesting to me is that the same bullet is available in the 444 Marlin 305 grain ammunition. The only difference is the muzzle velocity of the 305 grain Penetrator load comes out at 2150 fps in short levers (20 inch-22 inch barrels). "

Rossi, the other difference is sectional density, with the .458 slug going .276 while the .429 bullet of the .444 scores .237. Since the bullets are otherwise identical, one would think the .45 bullet would out-penetrate the .444. How much, and whether it matters in this context, I have no idea.

I would use a 300 grain bullet in my .375 or a 400 grain in my double .400 if push came to shove, but I would think a very hard cast 300+ grain bullet at .444 velocities would do the trick. As noted, it would certainly beat the tar out of any handgun.

The SD difference between .276 and .237 is meaningless, because they both change to something else much lower about 6 inches after impact. Both bullets are probably going to go completely through most bears, unless they hit heavy bones.

Those bullets usually look like they could be reloaded even after passing through bone and meat. That's the point of using them. As the Cor-Bon website says: " There is no expansion with this load and is best selected when bone breaking power is needed"

If they were soft points I'd agree with you, but those super hard cast bullets perform more like a solid. And again, even if they deformed, since they are exactly the same otherwise, more is better when it comes to SD. As I said, it may not matter. If the bullet goes through and whistles off into the bush, it ain't an issue, obviously.

The advice that you have gotten in this thread regarding using the right bullet is dead on.

Time and again, I have read reports and seen photos of heavy, hard cast lead bullets killing all sorts of large, heavy, or dangerous game very capably. Sometimes, the reports clearly showed that the hunter was a risk taker (One guy got all of the Big Five in Africa).

However, the reports about "bad bullets" is based in fact. In my little corner of heaven, only Remington 240 JHP are available over the counter in the 444 in the big stores. That really is a 44 magnum bullet in that box. But, the 240 grain JHP is AOK for and deer. That being said, I have not heard good things about it for Black Bear, Elk, Mooses, or wild boar.

But, Hornady loads a Light Magnum 444 with a good 265 grain bullet and most gun shops can get it for you. The reports I have read from guys who have actually killed something with this load indicate it is good for Black bear, Wild Boar, and Elk.

Otherwise, hard cast lead bullets are just fine (The Big Bears, Moose, etc). Every report I have seen indicates that good, hard cast lead bullets fly right on through whatever they are shot into. This is where the Buffalo Bore and other stuff comes in. (handloaders can order Hard Cast Lead Bullets from Midwayusa).

So, I say, if you want to take a 444 hunting for Big Bears, go right ahead.

As always, the three most important factors are: (1) use the right bullet; (2) practice, practice, practice; and (3) make sure that your guide understands and is comfortable with your choice.

Good Shooting,

BMT

Rossi--good post. BMT, also nicely done. I've flattened enough deer/black bear to highly respect the 444 and what it can do. I realize we're talking big bears here though. My current favorite loading for deer/blackies uses a 270gr gold dot. A load I read about in a Brian Pearce article in Rifle/Handloader. He tested it out on diseased cattle and stated that the wound channels it caused were "nothing short of devastating". With the right bullet, (cast--not the Remmy 240gr handgun crap) I'm sure it would take big bears, as is Mr. Pearce. 2 years ago I absolutely bang-flopped a nice black bear in upper Michigan (da U.P.) with my 444 270gr gold-dot loading. Another guy in camp shot one with a 450 Marlin factory XTP load. I'm not saying that the 444 is any better than the 450, but the guy who skinned the bears(he's done hundereds) was asking me, and not the other guy, what in the hell I'd shot that thing with!---2MG

As usual, thanks for all the replies and the information.

Here's something else to add, questionwise: I forget their name, but they're coming out with special new bullets that have soft-rubber points, and are made for lever-action, tubular-magazine rifles. Does the introduction of these new bullets make a difference in your answers?

No. Not in the 444. They are not as tough as a bonded-core or cast bullet. They may help out in the 30-30 or maybe even the 35Rem, but will not do much, if anything at all, to increase the effectiveness of the 444 or 45-70 IMHO---2MG

Shooting magazine has a test of the new Hornady bullets.
The rubber tipped 265-gr .444 shot flatter than their regular FN 265, but the old one had more weight retention and penetration, just as one might expect. The regular .444 is already a 200 yard rifle for deer, elk and the average black bear. If I only had one rifle, the new bullets might be interesting, but for me, the .444 is about power inside 150 yards.

Some big bear killed with the .444.

http://www.buffalobore.com/hunts/Default.htm

I would use mine.I would also make sure I had a good heavy 300gr+ bullet in it.If Fred Baer can kill an elephant with a bow you can kill a big bear with a 444. You need to know it's(444)limitations,range ect.
Now, if I didn't have a 444 already and wanted to go on a big bear hunt. I think I would buy a 375 H&H.
So, if your buying a rifle for a big bear hunt.Get more gun than a 444 Marlin.JMHO

The 444 certainly would not be one of my picks for a big bear rifle but it comes might close, if not duplicates, the old 405 Win. With good bullets it should be a fine big bear rifle.

I want another .444, a nice one, like a Beretta Silver Sable O/U double rifle. Same 24-inch barrel as my Marlin, 4 inches shorter, same weight. Speer 270-gr Gold Dots and 305-gr hard cast bullets.

The .444, when loaded properly, is more then adequate for any north American big game; including Grizzly.

I own a Winchester 94 BlackShadow in .444 that sports a full length magazine and Ghost Ring peep sights. I push 300 grain jacket bullets through the chronograph at 2450 f/s. That's 4,000 f/lbs of energy. Bullet construction is everything when persuing dangerous game. From what I understand, 70% of pro hunters in Africa shoot Swift bullets. American hunters apparently aren't aware of Swift. I shoot 300 grain Swift A-frames in my .444. They're built like a Nosler Partition; but with heavier jackets and a thicker A-frame construction. In my opinion, this is the best bullet available for hunting dangerous game with the .444. I shoot a lot of Hornady XTP's too. They're OK for plinking; but use the Swift for heavy work.

I guess the 4 grizzlies I've killed with a Marlin 444 havent read this thread because they all died. The 444 is a fine rifle for anything in NA. Anything the 45/70 will do, so will the 444. I've used both hard cast 300 grain slugs and the Hornady 265 grain bullets. Either bullet will shoot clear through a grizzly or moose for that matter most of the time.

In reply to poster BMT, Remington has never loaded JHP as in jacketed hollow points. They load soft points. I do believe they were initially hand gun bullets but were long ago changed to a thicker jacket. They still are really a deer/black bear bullet though. The 265 grain Hornady interlock is a great bullet, very accurate and much tougher than the Remington SP. I have shot the 300 Hornady XTP on paper and it is so accurate its almost funny out of my 1981 vintage .444 with the 1 in 38 inch twist. Never shot it on game though so I can't comment on its performance there. I have shot the 265 Interlock on many deer and its a tough bullet, I have killed two deer.with the Interlock after it penetrated trees, one was over 2" in diameter at abouth 80 yards, one was only about 3/4". Very good bullet performance, I have no doubt it would work well on any bear.

Wow, a Lee24, Safariman and muledeer thread resurrection. Brings back memories. RIP Dennis.

What load would that be?

Ha! Yeah, holy thread resurrection, Batman! I sure would like to know what load that is, too. The factory Hornady 265s shoot into an inch at 100 w/ my 1-38 Microgroove. I'd also like to try out the Underwood 220gr Extreme Penetrators at 2660fps!

I think its interesting to read the comments and advice given on these threads about bear rifles/calibers . Its obvious that most of the guys posting have likely never seen a bear let alone shot one. Fact is just about any accurate rifle is good for bear; big or otherwise. The vast majority of the grizzly and polar bears killed every year are shot by trappers or first nations people and they seldom use anything bigger than an 06. Usually its something smaller. A 444 marlin is so close to the 9.3x62 that no animal would ever know the difference, and the 9.3 has been used successfully for cape buff and elephant......

One of my guide friends who would over winter at the lodge by himself carried a 444. He would shoot around five moose and assorted nuisance bears both black and brown each year, on a Homestead license. He would use factory 165 grain loads on moose but if specifically for bear he would use the Corbon load. These were a huge step up in performance and recoil. They made the 444 almost equal to a heavily loaded 45/70. As a fishing/self defense rifle not a bad choice with the Corbon or Buffalo Bore loads. For Hunting give me something that is better to two hundred yards even though the 444 is capable of this.
In a lever action I would go for Teddy Roosevelt's "Big Lion Medicine" the 405 with modern hand loads.

Power wise the 444 is pretty close to the 405. Except with a little less SD.
In the proper hands, using tough bullets, it should work OK
But there are better choices.

Boils down to [bleep] that can shoot, and those that can't

Wow I thought I'd stepped into the way back machine!

Just for record here’s a new 444 Marlin load at over 2,100 fps that would make small work of most animals on the receiving end.

Underwood 444 Marlin Heavy Load

I've got a grizzly hunt booked for June 2021. I've got a 375 Ruger, 30/06 and a 444. The 375 Ruger with 300 grain Nolser Partitions is my choice.

Go to Marlin talk, and the safari grade 444 is what you seek.

It’s been a while but I think some dude was running 400plus grain bullets.

no, you need something bigger unless you want to be bear food,,

SGDawg take a look at Buffalo Bore Ammunition for the .444 & 45-70. I was not able to beat their ballistics or accuracy with the 45-70.

The OP was 15 years ago. Hopefully SGDawg has decided in a cartridge by now

We had a Japanese client one year from Hokkaido who owned thousands of hectares and was allowed to hunt 6 brown bears on his land. He claimed he carried a 444 Marlin and it worked fine.

Phil (458Win),
What would you choose for a guided hunter rather than a 444? First and second choices please.
As always, thank you,
R

I have never changed my answer to that question

What is your favorite rifle ? and what rifle do you use the most ?

Load it with Any of the current premium bullets and bring it.

Some of the quickest kills On bears were from clients using calibers from the 270 & 7mm to the 30-06 and 300's

Even though we all "know" the 338's and 375's are better.

Phil,
Thanks for responding. My brain couldn’t retrieve your answer.
I have been attempting to order the book on African Cartridges but the website isn’t cooperating.
Also, making progress on the working rifle.
R