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I have always used Hornady's Critical Defence 357 mag ammo but was thinking of the Winchester stuff after a day at the range with friends.
Handgun is Ruger SP101 2.25 in. with Hogue monos.
Help is appreciated.



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Was thinkin the same thing awhile back myself BLR, I sure like the looks of that slug, plus it's kinda cool to shoot an older style slug in an old pistol, in my case an older '67 model Colt Trooper.

Alas, I settled on 10 gns Power Pistol with the 125 Barnes TAC-XP's, they are accurate and run 1450 out of the 4" barreled Colt, very low recoil and muzzle flash due to the small charge of powder.

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my carry load in my SP-101 is the Speer 146 gr 3/4 jacketed SW HP with a Unique . The ST 145 GR should be a great load in 357 mag


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We used the 145 gr. Silvertip as a duty load in our .357 Model 66 S&W's from about 1986 to 1994, when we switched to semiautos. This was in a natural resources law enforcement agency. We only had one defensive shooting during that time, but the load worked well in that instance.

However we did shoot hundreds of injured deer and other animals with that load, and everybody was well impressed with its performance. I personally killed probably 50 critters with it and cannot complain.

Some of the injured deer were still mobile and had to be hunted down. I remember a couple that I shot behind the shoulder at about 30 yards. One went right down and the other made it about 20 yards. I also used it to kill a bear that had been hit by a car. No problemo.

There are probably better loads these days, but the Silvertip hasn't gotten any less effective since then. I still have a case of it that the boss gave me when we got rid of our revolvers.

Last edited by wildhobbybobby; 06/29/12.

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There are newer bullets and probably better bullets, but the Silvertip is a proven bullet. It's hard for me to dismiss that.

I use the .357 Silvertip in one of my house guns (a Security Six) and the .44 Special as the summer carry load in my Charter Bulldog.


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Always good to hear from someone with field experience. That is the load that stays in my 3" 66. They are getting hard to find.

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Originally Posted by EWY
Always good to hear from someone with field experience. That is the load that stays in my 3" 66. They are getting hard to find.

Ernie


EWY, if ya need to stock up, Midway had 'em in stock last time I looked, kinda high though shocked

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I would stay away from them, without some evidence they are not what they were back in 1992... There is a famous case of a police officer (Trooper Coates) being killed in South Carolina, when four 145 grain silvertips from his service revolver stopped in the fat guy's belly fat -- the officer was killed by a lucky shot from a .22 that entered his armpit and severed his aorta.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm

In November 1992, South Carolina Highway Patrolman Mark Coates shot an attacker four times in the torso with his 4 inch Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver. His attacker, an obese adult male who weighed almost 300 pounds, absorbed the hits and shortly thereafter returned fire with one shot from a single-action North American Arms .22 caliber mini-revolver. Coates was fatally wounded when the tiny bullet perforated his left upper arm and penetrated his chest through the armhole of his vest where the bullet cut a major artery. Coates, who was standing next to the passenger-side front fender of the assailant's car when he was hit by the fatal bullet, was very quickly incapacitated.

After Coates was hit, he immediately ran several feet, scrambling around the front of the assailant's car while simultaneously radioing dispatch that he'd been shot. As he neared the driver's-side front fender he suddenly collapsed onto the pavement.

Trooper Coates fired four 145 grain Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum bullets directly into his assailant's heavy abdomen, achieving solid hits with each. These particular bullets penetrate deeper than 125 grain JHPs, however none ruptured any vital cardiovascular structures. During the initial ground struggle, Coates was shot twice, but his vest protected him. After fighting off his attacker, Coates quickly climbed to his feet and emptied his revolver. At that particular moment the assailant was still lying on the ground. The combination of the assailant's obesity and the unusual angle at which the bullets entered his body worked to the disadvantage of Trooper Coates.


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Gosh damn, that sucks, I'm willing to bet the 125 Barnes TAC-XP's at 1450 fps would drill holes in that fat bastard and he would be dead today.

Sorry for the officer and his Family.

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And thanks for the link Dogger, very interesting and informative reading.

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Gut shot is a gut shot . Should have raised his aim about a foot or two and the results would have been different .


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Originally Posted by Dogger
I would stay away from them, without some evidence they are not what they were back in 1992... There is a famous case of a police officer (Trooper Coates) being killed in South Carolina, when four 145 grain silvertips from his service revolver stopped in the fat guy's belly fat -- the officer was killed by a lucky shot from a .22 that entered his armpit and severed his aorta.

http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs3.htm

In November 1992, South Carolina Highway Patrolman Mark Coates shot an attacker four times in the torso with his 4 inch Smith & Wesson .357 Magnum revolver. His attacker, an obese adult male who weighed almost 300 pounds, absorbed the hits and shortly thereafter returned fire with one shot from a single-action North American Arms .22 caliber mini-revolver. Coates was fatally wounded when the tiny bullet perforated his left upper arm and penetrated his chest through the armhole of his vest where the bullet cut a major artery. Coates, who was standing next to the passenger-side front fender of the assailant's car when he was hit by the fatal bullet, was very quickly incapacitated.

After Coates was hit, he immediately ran several feet, scrambling around the front of the assailant's car while simultaneously radioing dispatch that he'd been shot. As he neared the driver's-side front fender he suddenly collapsed onto the pavement.

Trooper Coates fired four 145 grain Winchester Silvertip .357 Magnum bullets directly into his assailant's heavy abdomen, achieving solid hits with each. These particular bullets penetrate deeper than 125 grain JHPs, however none ruptured any vital cardiovascular structures. During the initial ground struggle, Coates was shot twice, but his vest protected him. After fighting off his attacker, Coates quickly climbed to his feet and emptied his revolver. At that particular moment the assailant was still lying on the ground. The combination of the assailant's obesity and the unusual angle at which the bullets entered his body worked to the disadvantage of Trooper Coates.



I have that video in my training files. It is a chilling video to watch. None of those bullets fired by Trooper Coates struck above the diaphragm of the assailant. Your example is sorta like saying "I don't like the .30-06 because I shot a deer too far back and hit in the guts and it ran off and I couldn't find it." We know with any sort of decent bullet and shot placement the .30-06 is a perfectly adequate deer cartridge. Shot placement is King, penetration is Queen. Nobody much doubts .12 gauge 00 Buck lethality at short ranges. However, I personally knew a very obese police officer that took a load of 12 gauge 00 Buck in the lower abdomen from a chopped down single shot shotgun and survived it. This was before bullet resistant vest were the norm for police officers. I�d be willing to bet if the pellets had struck higher on his torso he probably wouldn�t have made it that day. After taking the shot from the bank robbers chopped down shotgun this overly large officer sat down against his patrol cars front wheels and fired six shots one handed from his S&W M686 .357 at his attacker from just a few yards away while the bad guy tried to get his motorcycle started. The stricken officer missed with all his shots. I came on scene within a couple minutes after the bad guy pushed his dirt bike down an alley way from the immediate scene. BTW, that officer fully recovered from his wounds and returned to active patrol duty until he retired a couple of years later.


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Another thing regarding the Trooper Coates incident; at the time it happened the information was that he was using issued .38 Special ammunition in his .357, NOT the load that is the subject of this thread. I was never able to recover a bullet from any of the critters I shot with the 145 gr. ST. Typically a deer shot through the chest would have a quarter sized exit hole on the far side.

Nothing that can be fired from a handgun will stop a determined assailant, unless it hits a critical spot.

The Coates video is chilling, painful and pitiful to watch. You can hear the life draining out of him as he tries to radio for help. He was a brave man and a hero.

Last edited by wildhobbybobby; 06/29/12.

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Originally Posted by wildhobbybobby
Another thing regarding the Trooper Coates incident; at the time it happened the information was that he was using issued .38 Special ammunition in his .357, NOT the load that is the subject of this thread. I was never able to recover a bullet from all of the critters I shot with the 145 gr. ST. Typically a deer shot through the chest would have a quarter sized exit hole on the far side.

Nothing that can be fired from a handgun will stop a determined assailant, unless it hits a critical spot.

The Coates video is chilling, painful and pitiful to watch. He was a brave man and a hero.


Now that you mention that... I seem to remember that Trooper Coates was shooting issue .38 Special 125 gr. +P hollowpoints and it was AFTER this incident his department began to issue the .357 Magnum 145 gr. Silvertips?

Last edited by MOGC; 06/29/12.

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Dang Gentlemen, this has me second guessing my carry load in my Colt Trooper 357 Magnum, I have not tested this load for penetration, only accuracy, do you Men think the 125 TAC-XP's from Barnes at 1450 fps is an inferior SD load?

Please advise.

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Not at all; it should work fine.

And yes, as MOGC says, I also recall that Tpr. Coates' agency only began using Magnum ammo after his death. It was very common back in those days to have agencies issue .357 revolvers but prohibit the use of .357 ammo. Even the FBI and Secret Service did it. It was a PC thing back when "hollow point" and "Magnum" were dirty words to many police administrators and politicians.

Last edited by wildhobbybobby; 06/29/12.

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Thanks alot WHB, think I'm still gonna have the Wifey buy about a 22 lb turkey, freeze it, then shoot it, and see what I can glean from that test.

Like I stated above, haven't tested at all, just relied on the rep. of the Barnes bullets. after reading this, I gotta know. wink

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That sounds like a terrible waste of a nice turkey. You would do better just using water soaked newspapers or magazines. Also, if the turkey is frozen, it will be akin to shooting a rock instead of a critter.


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Well kinda 2/3 rds thawed, ya know NHK9 borrowed a mag full of my 45 ACP carry load at the Boar hunt and put three 185 TAC-XP's completely through a 300+ pound hog at 20 yards, that boosted my confidence in that load.

They chronoed at 1150 fps, I hope like hell this 357 Magnum load isnt lacking at all behind the ACP load.

The reason for my concern is I was shot in the chest at point blank range by a 38 Special, the bullet disintegrated on impact, and I took the guys revolver from him and konked him over the head with it.

I dont intend to get konked over the gord with my own dang gun should I have to use it in a L or D situation shocked LOL

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Man, I wouldn't want to meet YOU in a dark alley...


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