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I'm going to build a 458 African,which is a short 458 magnum. I have ordered the reamer and gauges from Manson and Redding has the dies.

Similar 458's include the 450 Vincent short,458 AR,450 G&A short,ect.

How is the recoil versus the 458 win mag and lott and does anybody load a 550gr bullet.

Also what powders work well in these rounds, Thanks.

p.s. I'm building this on a classic 458 safari express which should be a easy conversion.

458 African specs.


http://www.scribd.com/doc/101537932


http://www.scribd.com/doc/101557238


http://www.scribd.com/doc/101537936


Last edited by RogerD; 08/01/12.
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Hi Roger,
I have a cartridge in my collection based on a fire formed .404Jfrs, that I couldn't identify. I first thought it was a .450 Howell, but I got the drawings from Ken Howell, and it didn't match. Also looked at the .450 Vincent and others that you mention. You have now identified it. Just taken the measurements from your link. I don't know how I really came by it, think it was in a job lot auction of stuff I bought. Been thinking of building somthing with it or going for a .450 Howell, by rechambering a .458win Parker Hale or a Zastava as these come up now and again at a good price. I'm runiing a Win M70 .458 Lott that I rechambered and its working well, so I don't really need to do it but it maybe a long winter project. I would be very interested how you get along the .450 African. Looks like it will more or less the same as the Lott. Would be interested to know if you can use 450gr Barns TSX in it without compressing loads and get around the 2200fps mark.
Below left to right .450African, .458winmag, .458Lott
[Linked Image]

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Roger, could you clarify which rifle you will use to build this blaster? Classic Safari Express???

In my own opinion, all of these hogged out 458's will have problems. Excepting the 458 Lott, of course. If someone accidentally loads the orig. cartridge (458 Win Mag.), the CRF claw extractor may hold it up to the firing pin.

If you design one like mine, and deliberately chamber it from a new short chambered barrel,(-.050"), then you can leave it about .025" shorter than a factory 458 Win Mag case. I'm hoping that's enough to preclude a Winnie Mag from chambering, in the larger diameter chamber.

But I'm finding out that big bulbous bullet noses and cases larger than the H&H belted ones, mess up a Mauser M-98's staggered feeding. My 10.6mm x 375 Ruger wildcat rifle is up at the G.S. right now, for some extra machining under it's left feed rail. The 410 Woodleighs, are popping up through the left feed rail. This is partly due to the extreme taper in my cases. It matches the Schulers, and Schuler did go to a single column magazine for their 8 x 68 S Magnum.

These rifles must be absolutely reliable. So, I may have to hit Dave Kiff, at P.T. & G. up for a new finish reamer, with less taper. Dave said this would be a possible cure for a lack of shouder to head space on, but now it looks like it may cure a feeding problem with the 410 gr. RN Woodleighs. A Rem 7mm Mag feeds just fine, from both rails.

This problem arises from the front of the Mauser staggered feed system, deflecting the bullet, nose first, into line with the chamber. The added taper in the case body, means that the stock rail can't hold on to the case heads long enough. Ergo, Schuler's single column solution.

Only the Schulers and the 458 American have as much taper as my Boer 8mm Mag. and 10.6mm x 375 Ruger wildcats. So I suggest you work some dummies up and check your feeding before you re-chamber your existing 458 Win Mag.

My G.S. says he can retro fit a Weatherby Mark V mag box into my Rem LH M-700 RUM rifle, for really large diameter parent cases, like the 378 Wea., but this tuning will be expensive. And my Remmie isn't a CRF action, anyway. If you have the full length CRF action, then maybe a 458 Lott or a 416 Rem Mag. would be the way to go. If it's a std. length one, then there's still the 416 Ruger.

BTW, I use the 375 Ruger as my parent case, and both my shoulders run .483", just like your necks. I need absolutely minimum case taper for my .450 Magnum, and they can only be made from the Ruger Basic case. As my .450 has less taper than the 375/416 Rugers. In a cheap M-98 Mauser action, it may have to be built as a single column feed job, from the start.

If I get the feeding problem solved, then I'll work over my Rem. 700 L.H. into a .500 caliber short. Not as any back up, but as a quicker shooting, belted rimless 500 Alaskan. My Mauser was really too slow to reload and shoot Kudu, left handed, back in May. So, will you keep this forum up to date on your project? If it works out, you will be a step ahead of me.

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Originally Posted by paul375
Hi Roger,
I have a cartridge in my collection based on a fire formed .404Jfrs, that I couldn't identify. I first thought it was a .450 Howell, but I got the drawings from Ken Howell, and it didn't match. Also looked at the .450 Vincent and others that you mention. You have now identified it. Just taken the measurements from your link. I don't know how I really came by it, think it was in a job lot auction of stuff I bought. Been thinking of building somthing with it or going for a .450 Howell, by rechambering a .458win Parker Hale or a Zastava as these come up now and again at a good price. I'm runiing a Win M70 .458 Lott that I rechambered and its working well, so I don't really need to do it but it maybe a long winter project. I would be very interested how you get along the .450 African. Looks like it will more or less the same as the Lott. Would be interested to know if you can use 450gr Barns TSX in it without compressing loads and get around the 2200fps mark.
Below left to right .450African, .458winmag, .458Lott
[Linked Image]


No doubt about it,it is a rare cartridge outside of South Africa. The cartridge was designed by Pierre Van Der Walt the Author of the much heralded book Dangerous game cartridges.

I am going to build 2 rifles for this 458 African and sure there are other options but I really like what this design has to offer. The rifles should be done in about 9 months. Both will be on Model 70's.

I think the African should take very well to the 450gr and 2200fps should not be a problem. The cartridge can be loaded to a AOl of 3.600 and I plan to shoot 450,500,and 550's in it. The 550 at 2100+ is real interesting.

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Originally Posted by INDYBUSTER
Roger, could you clarify which rifle you will use to build this blaster? Classic Safari Express???

In my own opinion, all of these hogged out 458's will have problems. Excepting the 458 Lott, of course. If someone accidentally loads the orig. cartridge (458 Win Mag.), the CRF claw extractor may hold it up to the firing pin.

If you design one like mine, and deliberately chamber it from a new short chambered barrel,(-.050"), then you can leave it about .025" shorter than a factory 458 Win Mag case. I'm hoping that's enough to preclude a Winnie Mag from chambering, in the larger diameter chamber.

But I'm finding out that big bulbous bullet noses and cases larger than the H&H belted ones, mess up a Mauser M-98's staggered feeding. My 10.6mm x 375 Ruger wildcat rifle is up at the G.S. right now, for some extra machining under it's left feed rail. The 410 Woodleighs, are popping up through the left feed rail. This is partly due to the extreme taper in my cases. It matches the Schulers, and Schuler did go to a single column magazine for their 8 x 68 S Magnum.

These rifles must be absolutely reliable. So, I may have to hit Dave Kiff, at P.T. & G. up for a new finish reamer, with less taper. Dave said this would be a possible cure for a lack of shouder to head space on, but now it looks like it may cure a feeding problem with the 410 gr. RN Woodleighs. A Rem 7mm Mag feeds just fine, from both rails.

This problem arises from the front of the Mauser staggered feed system, deflecting the bullet, nose first, into line with the chamber. The added taper in the case body, means that the stock rail can't hold on to the case heads long enough. Ergo, Schuler's single column solution.

Only the Schulers and the 458 American have as much taper as my Boer 8mm Mag. and 10.6mm x 375 Ruger wildcats. So I suggest you work some dummies up and check your feeding before you re-chamber your existing 458 Win Mag.

My G.S. says he can retro fit a Weatherby Mark V mag box into my Rem LH M-700 RUM rifle, for really large diameter parent cases, like the 378 Wea., but this tuning will be expensive. And my Remmie isn't a CRF action, anyway. If you have the full length CRF action, then maybe a 458 Lott or a 416 Rem Mag. would be the way to go. If it's a std. length one, then there's still the 416 Ruger.

BTW, I use the 375 Ruger as my parent case, and both my shoulders run .483", just like your necks. I need absolutely minimum case taper for my .450 Magnum, and they can only be made from the Ruger Basic case. As my .450 has less taper than the 375/416 Rugers. In a cheap M-98 Mauser action, it may have to be built as a single column feed job, from the start.

If I get the feeding problem solved, then I'll work over my Rem. 700 L.H. into a .500 caliber short. Not as any back up, but as a quicker shooting, belted rimless 500 Alaskan. My Mauser was really too slow to reload and shoot Kudu, left handed, back in May. So, will you keep this forum up to date on your project? If it works out, you will be a step ahead of me.


Model 70 Classic 458 safari express

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Good choice, my favorite rifle!

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I built a 458AccRel a 458Lott size case that fits in standard mag action(7mmrem mag,300winmag) 500gr to 2300fps or 330gr cast a 1200fps. Wild to mild all in a 8.5lbs rifle. Will never need anything bigger but may want something bigger just because!Clint


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Thanx Roger, I wasn't sure about your nomenclature. In the few left hand M-70 Classic Magnums out there, left available for parenting a wildcat, the bug bear seems to be that they were all made on soft tooling. The Browning tech whom I called thinks these asymmetric actions' spare parts will be gone in ten years. Soft tooling means a run of only 30,000 items, tops, not 100,000 to 500,000, as in hard tooled jobs.

And this also applies to the Miroku built, replica Winchester lever action rifles, too.

I believe that all of these soft tooling rifles should only use factory ammo, to cut down on parts breakages. Even now, you need to pirate a Win. 670's circlip extractor, to repair the older Remington 721's and 722's. So this is already a "robbing Peter, to pay Paul", situation. And I don't know if you can still, "Pay Paul, with Pay Pal", on E-Bay, either.

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Originally Posted by INDYBUSTER
Thanx Roger, I wasn't sure about your nomenclature. In the few left hand M-70 Classic Magnums out there, left available for parenting a wildcat, the bug bear seems to be that they were all made on soft tooling. The Browning tech whom I called thinks these asymmetric actions' spare parts will be gone in ten years. Soft tooling means a run of only 30,000 items, tops, not 100,000 to 500,000, as in hard tooled jobs.

And this also applies to the Miroku built, replica Winchester lever action rifles, too.

I believe that all of these soft tooling rifles should only use factory ammo, to cut down on parts breakages. Even now, you need to pirate a Win. 670's circlip extractor, to repair the older Remington 721's and 722's. So this is already a "robbing Peter, to pay Paul", situation. And I don't know if you can still, "Pay Paul, with Pay Pal", on E-Bay, either.


Wow, I have never heard anything like that. Do you have any documentation on that problem with the LH model 70's? There are pleny of donor guns out there,built up to larger calibers,not to mention stock 375H&H LH models out there. The Winchester custom shop even offered left hand "boomers" when they were operating.

To make such a claim,can't go unchallenged.

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Hi Roger, while I don't tape record phone calls, as it's illegal, you can call, or write, the Browning, Winchester techs and find this out, for yourself. Just ask them, specifically, about soft vs. hard tooling.

Stocking replacement parts for soft tooled rifles, when you know 30,000 units is probably tops, can't go on as long as for hard tooled rifles, produced in six, or seven figures. I specifically asked that tech, about the BB angle eject parts, as I use them in my wildcatted Model 94 Winchester. He said another ten years, would be about it.

Obviously, when they make the extra parts, they don't really know which ones will be prone to breakages. For instance, I ordered every part on their microfiche page, specific to the 307 BB angle ejects. This went some $70.00, but I ended up only using three parts, and two mini screws, as mine were a little damaged.

Believe me, the blown out BB cases work neat, through a post 64 model 94 top ejector, with just these three drop in parts installed. My BB parts came from the Browning parts Depot at Arnold, MO.. But my gunsmith also had to "influence" my mag tube, towards the loading gate, in order to help the larger diameter cases, make the corner into the tube.

So, in a L.H. Model 70, which I believe is also a soft tooled production number, there will be some asymmetrical parts, that may break, down the road, making it smart to order a few extra parts for your rifle, ASAP.

This way, if you do blow out a case head, you will have a repair kit ready to install. Fortunately, most screws, sights, ect., will be fungible, between the right and left hand models. I don't believe they will sell L.H. bolt bodies, to the public, but only to qualified gunsmiths, or their own repair centers.

So, forewarned is forearmed! Now whether they will even work on a modified wildcat rifle, in a factory repair center, is another question, entirely. But the tech told me on the phone, that the clock is ticking, with those L.H. Model 70's.

I believe this Winchester tech line, originates from Utah. And I came away with the idea, that if you modify one of these L.H. rifles, you had better lay away some spare parts, within a year or so, just to be safe.

Some of the next generation of L.H. M-70 parts, when or even if, they are ever made again, may or may not fit the ones that are out in commerce, today. They just might all be metric, to boot.

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Thanks Indy for the info.

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I have some data for the 450 G&A Short.

Using Fed 215 primers

78grs IMR4895 2160fps
80grs " "2200fps
80grs IMR4320 2160fps
82grs " "2200fps

If you want drawings for this cartridge, just let me know.


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Originally Posted by FC363
I have some data for the 450 G&A Short.

Using Fed 215 primers

78grs IMR4895 2160fps
80grs " "2200fps
80grs IMR4320 2160fps
82grs " "2200fps

If you want drawings for this cartridge, just let me know.


The 450 G&A short is similar and load data I think would be useful.

I have ordered the reamer and dies for the 458 African and I going to build it. I talked to Pierre and as of his book being printed in 2011 there was less than 12 of the rifles chambered for the African. Kinda rare but I want to build it anyway.

I also am going to build a 416 dakota. I guess I'm hooked on 404 wildcats.

Thanks for the info.

Last edited by RogerD; 08/15/12.

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