Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Ask John Barsness Questions About "BONDED BULLETS"

Thanks John, seems like you know your sh&^t.

A 160g tipped / boat tail Partition or A-Frame with the front half bonded would be lovely in my 270 at 2900 fps

labdad: That was good stuff! I have somehow lost my old copies of those writings and also wish I had some of Bill's writings as well.....need to call and pester him for a copy.

Also deeply regret I ever got rid of my 338 BBC's...but after messing with the 375's I got out of the 338 game altogether.

I had 250+ of the .358 250's I got from old Ivan Jones up in Alaska....had no 35 caliber rifle for them so built a 35 on a full length, blown out H&H case after confabbing with Bill about which 35 to do(?).

I find the post by the gentleman above interesting,about bonded bullets rocking game somewhat more than the X types but have never used an X on an animal,so can't comment personally on those; but have used the BBC quite a bit and have seen that reaction...usually with solid chest hits you get a reaction....it rocks them "down". I suspect (but don't know)that this comes from early expansion to a broad frontal area,and enough weight retention to chop a good wound channel through vitals.It seems the killing effect is good and penetration deep enough.

I have opened up the chests of elk and deer sized game struck with Bitterroots at high velocity and there was really nothing left but soup...the trauma was substantial.Scrapnel from bullets disintegrating is one way to get a lot of trauma, but not the only way.

I have noticed the effect falls off a bit at long range,one reason I like the BBC at high velocity and magnum cases that give it....I bet BBC's, Barnes, NF's etc just work better at relatively high velocity,and this was what Bill always said......I think it is tough to tear any of them up at speeds we can drive them.

Bob,

Have pointed this out before, but Norma Oryx's seem to produce the same effects as Bitterroots, bpth the thump when they hit and the internal damage. It's easy to see why if you ever recover a bullet, since they expand very similarly.

The only two drawbacks to the Oryx are a mid-range ballistics coefficient (similar to the BBC) and a rather limited choice of diameters and weights--complicated by Norma's spotty importation and distribution in the U.S. On the other hand, they're usually very accurate and the price is very good. A lot of people don't realize this, since Oryx's come 100 to a box rather than 50 like most other premiums these days. I just checked the Midway website and 180 30's are $57.99/100.

JB: Yes I recall you saying that...been meaning to pick some up at some point but have not gotten to it.I would like to try them in 30/06.Would you prefer the 165 or 180 in the 30/06? Have you used them in Africa at all?

Good writing and good thread.

At the moment in Europe, Oryx are available from 224 to 375cal; only the 257 is missing. Weight by caliber are not as numerous as with some other makers but enough to cover most ammunition used widely.
They have another quality in general: to be easy to load accurately and to be not finicky as some premium can be.

For people using 284 the 170grs is back after 10 years of absence and the 358 is available in 250grs weight, a really effective bullet for Whelen an ammo often used in France for driven big game hunt.

With first models of 2000 i shot game from red foxes to moose includind feral sheeps and goats using 7x65R single shot.
Except the moose that i doubled (for pure safety reason did 50meters between the two shots)all where one shot kill. Less spectaculary than Vulkan but really effective meat saver bullet.

Bonded bullets are effective but Oryx are fantastic.
And if you complain about prices in US of A, you can't imagine here...Ruag Ammotec is not on the market for playing..They are Swiss and know about money!

Dom

Bob,

In .30 I have only used the 180-grain, and it has worked great.
Yes, I have used Oryx bullets in Africa, primarily the 156 7mm, which worked fine on game up to and including wildebeest.

JB/Writing Frog: Thanks to both....good info!

It seems that the Hornady Interbond ought to be the perfect replacement/upgrade for the Bitterroot, if only it will shoot accurately.

DD I could not get them to shoot either....I wondered if it was twist(?)

I got the Interbonds to shoot almost MOA in my custom .280. But only two loads out of almost a dozen would do that. Only the Swift-A-Frame was that tough. The 160 gr. Speer Mag-Tip was even worse. The Barnes X, XBT, XLC and the TSX all shot fine BTW. Especially the the TSX. All the Sierras were very easy to find accurate loads. Those would be the 100 gr. HP and the 120 gr. PH. Hornady 120 gr. SP also were easy to find really accurate loads for.
The other thing, which was the clincher for me, was the lack of penetration with the 154 gr. Hdy Interbond. The 160 gr. Nosler Partition easily out penetrated it. Even the 140 gr. NP out of my old 7X57 penetrated better. E

I'm surprised that you guys have had troubles getting Interbonds to shoot accurately. In my two custom 280s, the 140 gr. IB shoots sub-MOA in both. In fact, it is one of the most accurate bullets I've used in those two rifles. I can't really address the penetration issue as I've only shot one animal with them, a pronghorn antelope at the Lander one-shot last year. The "goat" died instantly. I haven't done any bullet tests in several years now, but I don't recall the IB particularly lacking in penetration compared to other bullets in its class.

TT

Same observation as TT, even if it was with Hornady superformance loaded with Interbond.

Some month ago, being short of handloads and having opportunity for 600m and more shootout i got three superformance boxes of 300 Winchester magnum loaded with 180grs IB at my friends shop. Shooting them in a new model German "sniper/tactical rifle" made some chrono, zeroed at 200m. They were almost as good as match cartridges.
Going through the Sierra software i determined a trajectory to 600 and 800m using velocity noted and Hornady BC. At 600m 40 bullets on 40 were in the center of an 8x7 inch steel plate. Impact was very interesting to say the least...At 800 the last ten were in the 10in steel gong. wind was around 8 to 10mph, not constant and turning sometimes.

When i don't want to handload and because my friend give me very good price i use them to practice a bit.
Had the same accuracy with factory 270 Winchester IB.

May be my rifles are not finicky, may be i was lucky, but nothing to blame on the factory IB i shot.
Never hunted with.

Dom

In my .240 Wby, I had a nice choice of premium bullets that would go 1/2" or near that, I didn't feel the need to spend time trying to work up a good IB load.

If that's all I had to work with, I'm sure I could have, over time, developed a fairly decent load.

But, I sold the box and am moving on. They had their chance...

DF

Ah yes---I'll be taking my chances with what's left of that box!

I have high hopes!

Hope they work for ya...

I would think they'd have good terminal ballistics. They look good on paper, just didn't look good enough on my target. But different guns handle loads and bullets differently.

Let us know how they do.

DF

I'll let you know when I get them out. I'm not super picky on accuracy, so I'll probably find something acceptable.

I have maybe not really given them a fair shake...only tried them in one 270 and nothing else in other cartridges.....so it could be a one time thing.But for me they are similar to the results I have had with 130 AB,and 130 Swift SII; I am begininng to suspect twist,and have a new 9 twist 270 tube.I may give them another run in that barrel and see what happens.

I have wondered about this for awhile when it comes to some of these new 270 bullets that are long and plastic tipped.....could it be that they just want a faster twist?

Don't know why some guys kick John in the balls when he takes time to write and then answer your questions.He has forgotten more in the shower this morning than most will ever know.

I have found elk to be one animal that will cling to life after a good shot more than the rest.At the same time I've yet to see any NA game animal soak up lead like a moose.But they normally turn around and die.

At first I wasn't a huge NP fan.Partly because of my ignorance of the design.Guess I was one of those bullet failure guys with dead game.

All in all it's about all I use now except E Tips in 30 cal.Also have only encountered one pedal in some burger from a Failsafe.

John,
Some have reported lousy accuracy with Interbonds, specially with 154gr 7mm ones...
Have you experienced the same?
Thank you!
Alvaro