Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Savage Collectors 303 British or 303 Savage

Besides the price what is the difference?
Can either one be used in a Savage 303?

Cannot be used in 303 Savage

Yep, dimensions are totally different as well as the bullet diameters. Do not fire one in the other.

303 British:




303 Savage:

Note different bore sizes as well.

Thanks guys I really appricate it. The diagram says it all Calhoun

To add to what I mentioned, paradoxically, one thing they share in common is neither is a .303 bore

I'd disagree with that statement.

Any specific reason why or just being contrary? Obviously I am referring to the nomenclature. A .308 Winchester is indeed a .308 diameter bore but this does not follow for either .303's under discussion.

The bore diameter is the distance between the lands, as opposed to the groove diameter. A .308" caliber rifle "usually" has a .300" bored barrel, since the barrel is first bored, than rifled. While I am not familiar with the .303 Brit, I would be willing to guess that it is bored to .303", and then rifled to .312" per specs.

So, the .303 British is the true .303 bore? Let me re-phrase my statement and see if it is more generally accepted:

"... one thing they share in common is neither uses .303 diameter bullets."

Yes, I wish I would have went with that from the start

All that stuff is way over my head. I don,t reload all I do is shoot. And when I do it is nice to know the round in the chamber is not going to blow up in my face.
When I was in the Croch we used two 105 Caliber shells. One was used in a 105 Cannon the other in a 105 Recoiless Rifle. Same caliber, very different shells. So we called the Recoiless Rifle a 106 so as not to confuse shells. Not that you would ever put a 106 shell into a 105 Howitzer it just would not fit,( but it was attempted more then once) but more so that the right Ammo would show up at the right weapon.
So after all my BS the question begs why are they both called 303,s?

At one time the Savage used a .308" bore and .311" bullets, which they and everyone else dropped in favour of .308 bullets.
The .303 British has always been .311" bullets and bore.

You mean like a 300 Savage or a 300 Winchester or a 300 Ultra Mag or a 300 H & H or a 300 Norma or a 300... Next question. The real question is why old "Arty" Savage called it 303 in the first place? But then again we have .22-250s, .223s, .224s and .225s so I guess as as long as your in the ballpark you can call it whatever you want.

Them dam Brits can,t leave well enough alone

Just like today, marketing guides a lot of things. As far caliber designations, the .38/40 Winchester uses a .40 caliber bullet. How come the .357 magum and the .38 special use the same bullet? The .44 magnum uses a .429 bullet as does the .444 Marlin. And these are interspersed with cartridges like the .264 Winchester, .308 (including the Norma magnum), .358 .375 H&H, .458 and others where the designation does in fact reflect the bullet diameter.

I'd agree they don't use 303 diameter bullets but the Brit is a 303 bore.

Just as the 256 Newton has a .256" diameter bore and 0.004" depth rifling, so that you shoot .264" diameter bullets. I once bought a 1st Model Newton that the owner was using to shoot .257" bullets without much success. I tried to explain why he should be shooting .264" bullets, but he felt that since it was a 256, shooting .264" bullets would be too dangerous to shoot over-sized bullets in it, so he traded it to me for a nice Marlin 336 SC in 35 Rem.

Jeff

I've been collecting and shooting Lee-Enfields for about 40 years so maybe I can chime in here. Rifles chambered for .303 British have a .303 bore and a nominal .311 groove size. In reality many have a larger groove size with .314-.315 being not uncommon. The .303 British predates the .303 Savage by a few years. It started out in 1888 as a compressed black powder load with a 215 grain round nosed bullet. Then it changed to Cordite, a smokeless propellant still with the 215RN bullet. Then it changed to a 174 grain flat tailed spitzer. During WWII both Cordite and smokeless powder were used. Some version of the Lee-Enfield rifle and the .303 British round were in military service in the UK from 1888 until the late 1950's early 1960's.

I don't under stand why A.S didn't just chamber the 1899 for 30-40 Krag. Ballistics are about the same as 300 Savage and it can take bullets from 180 grain to 220 grain.

The receiver and rotary magazine was/is way too short to handle a cartridge as long as the .30/40 or .303 British. Had it been otherwise, we probably would never have seen the .250-3000 or .300 Savage.

Perhaps Cottage Hill Bill is questioning why A.S. didn't make the action long enough to accomodate the .30/40. For me, the Savage action designed around the .45/70 has some appeal. I realize it would certainly be a, "man's gun" and a big hand would be required to wrap around that receiver and walk through the woods with it. In other words, a Savage designed around Loggah