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Pricedo:

Just a note: Like all double rifles (even the most expensive one) this one's regulation is sensitive to cartridge load changes. The nice thing about the little Bikals are the ability for the user to regulate it themselves once you settle on a load combination and not have to send it back to the maker ($$$). Once you settle on a load and regulate it to that load STAY WITH IT or you will need to start the regulation process all over again.

Case in point - I spent the first two years I had mine (after getting it back from the gunsmith) trying to chase various bullet, powder and velocity combination while trying to regulate it each time. Two years ago is when I finally just settled on the Rem 405's at 1600 fps. Got it shooting honest 2" group at 100 yd. I actually schlepped it to Namibia for the first time two years ago.

The Sunday before we left, we went to the range for final sight-ins on all our rifles and I confirmed the 2" group. Ran a Bore-Snake through the barrels twice wiped it down and put it in the case. Reloaded all our shot ammo and packed it.

Six days later we are at the PH's place doing our initial sight-in confirmation at 100 yds. Pulled the trigger on the first barrel immediately noticed a difference in recoil but though it was just me - no round on paper. Second shot - same result. Two more, same same. Move to 50 yds. Two more neither on paper. PH tries it - four rounds, none on paper. Frustrated, I figured it got screwed up somewhere along the way, put it back in the case and left it there the rest of the trip. When home, put it in the safe and never even looked at it again.

A few months before we left for this years trip, I had a little time to spare and decided to take it out an look it over. Everything seemed just fine. Took the remaining box of loads I took the previous year and a box I had loaded before that last practice session. Just by chance, the first box I pull out of the shooting box was the box that was left behind. First two rounds either side of bull and 1" high. WTF!!! Grab two rounds out of the box that went - not on the paper. More WTF!!!

Got back home and pulled the powder from one round of each box. Mystery solved - wrong (higher) powder charge in the box that went. All I can figure it I used the wrong load data in the automatic powder dispenser. No body to blame but me!!

Decided to take it back again this year with the CORRECT ammo and it was a lot of fun. PH could believe it was the same rifle. Those 405's at 1600 fps where more than sufficient for Gemsbok. The ones I shot with it were all high spine shots (frontals and sides) so they all dropped at the shot. the PH LOVED the meat culling with the 45-70 as there was virtually ZERO bloodshot meat lost and no chasing.

It will give you fits trying to sort out the regulation.

Advice:
a) Settle on a bullet, bullet weight/style and mussel velocity BEFORE you start regulating it.
b) Use the same cases from the same manufacturer - lots of internal case capacity differences between makers.
c) Use the same power, same charge weight and lot number.
d) On mine, the jack-screw between the barrels would move the horizontal impact points, but it would also move the vertical impact points some two. The jack-screw is very effective - only go one or two clicks at a time. The more outward pressure the screw applies the faster it moves the horizontal impact points and it is easy to over adjust and have them crossing.

I had a hell of a time dealing with the vertical - had to apply some...torque to the barrels, then shim the end of the right one, and cant the scope just a little to finally get both barrels shooting absolutely horizontal. Lots of trials and tribulations, powder burned and bullets sent downrange, but that first Gemsbok on the ground was worth every bit of it and each one after that made it just that much sweeter!!

Remember, don't try to turn it into anything more than what it is or use it on thick skinned dangerous African game that it wasn't ever intended for and enjoy the hell out of it!!!!

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Friend of mine dropped by and saw the rifle and said the first thing he would do is convert one of the chambered barrels to .410 gauge shotgun and align the 45-70 barrel with the iron sights or an optical sight.

At 7 pounds it would make a great gun for a combo hunting trip for upland game & hogs/black bear/deer/elk/moose/whatever.

Regulation would no longer be an issue and the gun would be an extremely versatile utilitarian game getter.

Hmmmmmmm???????

Last edited by pricedo; 08/31/12.

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Pricedo:

Why not do a Goggle search for 45-70 Forager rounds. No conversions required. I've played with them and they are effective on rabbits and tree rats out to 10-15 yards. They would work farther but the rifling causes the shot to spread real fast. Civil war soldiers where actually supplied with a 45-70 Forager round - it was a hollowed out wooden "bullet" that was filled with shot.

Then you come back to the original point of why spend $1000 on a "double rifle" just to convert it (spend more money) to a combo gun that can be bought for half that price (Savage 24).

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I've got over a dozen boxes of HSM 430 grain hard cast lead bulet factory ammo I got really cheap at a sale and essentially bought it for the Starline brass.
This ammo is stoutly loaded (not Buffalo Bore or Garrett stout but very close).........certainly well above the anemic green & yellow box 405 grain factory ammo.
I'm going to try the MP-221 on a diet of that stuff.
If I can get it to regulate firing the HSM ammo good enuf.
I have a feeling that those barrels will like hard cast bullets.
Hopefully the twist is fast enuf to stabilize 430 grain bullets.
How strong is the gun?
How heavy can its ammo be loaded?


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The side of the barrel is marked not to exceed 3200 HST. That converts to something in the neighborhood of 28K psi. Some guys have said they have shot them hotter than that and those "accidental" loads I took to Namibia where a good bit above that. Fortunately, I have still have my eyes and fingers. Yes, there is normally an engineered in margin of safety, but you can see how short and thin the chamber steel is and there is no transition from the the chamber to the thin wall barrels. Me personally....I choose to stay on the side of safety and within the engineered design limits.

I did try several different weights in cast with gas checks from 325-425 grains at .459 dia. They worked well enough but, I had several thousand of the Rem 405's on hand and just ended up using them. One year I used the 405's at 2000 fps in a #1 and a a Siamese Mauser 45-70 on some Gemsbok. They made HUGE holes you could literally push a golf ball through but none exited and the jackets separated. Called a Rem rep and he said the 405's were designed to work best at MV's under 1600 fps. So...that is the velocity I've kept them at and they worked very well.

One thing I discovered with mine, the harder I pushed it the less accurate it became. I think the thin/short chambers and thin barrel walls probably contribute to that. Pretty much any good 400gr hard cast or jacketed bullet at 1600 fps will be pretty effective on any NA game and African PG.

Have fun at the range.




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Originally Posted by m3taco
The side of the barrel is marked not to exceed 3200 HST. That converts to something in the neighborhood of 28K psi. Some guys have said they have shot them hotter than that and those "accidental" loads I took to Namibia where a good bit above that. Fortunately, I have still have my eyes and fingers. Yes, there is normally an engineered in margin of safety, but you can see how short and thin the chamber steel is and there is no transition from the the chamber to the thin wall barrels. Me personally....I choose to stay on the side of safety and within the engineered design limits.

I did try several different weights in cast with gas checks from 325-425 grains at .459 dia. They worked well enough but, I had several thousand of the Rem 405's on hand and just ended up using them. One year I used the 405's at 2000 fps in a #1 and a a Siamese Mauser 45-70 on some Gemsbok. They made HUGE holes you could literally push a golf ball through but none exited and the jackets separated. Called a Rem rep and he said the 405's were designed to work best at MV's under 1600 fps. So...that is the velocity I've kept them at and they worked very well.

One thing I discovered with mine, the harder I pushed it the less accurate it became. I think the thin/short chambers and thin barrel walls probably contribute to that. Pretty much any good 400gr hard cast or jacketed bullet at 1600 fps will be pretty effective on any NA game and African PG.

Have fun at the range.





I have several boxes of the 400 grain Speer SP-FN bullets that I can load up to Trapdoor pressure levels for the MP-221.

The Speer 400 grainers are much like the Green Box 405 grainers in that they are designed to perform best at moderate velocities.

The Remy 405 grainers are hard to come by where I am. I don't see Remy bulk bullets for sale on line or on the shelves in the shops and stores like they used to be.

Last edited by pricedo; 08/31/12.

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Pricedo:

You use max level "Trapdoor" and mid level Lever Action loads all day.

Hodgdon Reloading Data Tables

The 405 Rems are hard to find now everywhere. I had really stocked up on bulk boxes a few years ago. Rumor has it that Rem is to make another "run" of them sometime yet this year.

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Originally Posted by m3taco
Pricedo:

You use max level "Trapdoor" and mid level Lever Action loads all day.

Hodgdon Reloading Data Tables

The 405 Rems are hard to find now everywhere. I had really stocked up on bulk boxes a few years ago. Rumor has it that Rem is to make another "run" of them sometime yet this year.


Watched an all in french bench shooting demo/review of the MP-221 online featuring a rather jolly looking Frenchman that I'm sure you must have encountered in your websurfing and I'm sure he was shooting the Hornady LeveRevolution 325 grain FTX factory ammo that is well above Trapdoor pressure levels in the later part of the video.


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Pricedo:

The 45-70 325gr Leverevolution are good rounds but they are not that hot. 45-70 Leverevolution

Note that out of a 24" barrel they are 2050fps with 3032 ft-lbs of energy. Go back over to the Hodgdon Reloading tables under Trapdoor 45-70 loads. While it doesn't specifically list a 325gr projectile it does list a 300gr jacketed at 2221fps that translates to 3287 ft-lbs of energy and 27600 CUP and that is under 28K PSI or at least very close to it.

Just as a comparison a 350gr bullet at 2275fps produces 4023 ft-lbs of muzzle energy....legal for DG in all African countries.

Edited to add: I AM NOT IN ANY WAY SUGGESTING TO TRY AND PUSH YOUR RIFLE TO THOSE LEVELS. In a 45-70 size case you are pushing/exceeding 50,000 psi.

Last edited by m3taco; 08/31/12.
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Originally Posted by m3taco
Pricedo:

The 45-70 325gr Leverevolution are good rounds but they are not that hot. 45-70 Leverevolution

Note that out of a 24" barrel they are 2050fps with 3032 ft-lbs of energy. Go back over to the Hodgdon Reloading tables under Trapdoor 45-70 loads. While it doesn't specifically list a 325gr projectile it does list a 300gr jacketed at 2221fps that translates to 3287 ft-lbs of energy and 27600 CUP and that is under 28K PSI or at least very close to it.

Just as a comparison a 350gr bullet at 2275fps produces 4023 ft-lbs of muzzle energy....legal for DG in all African countries.

Edited to add: I AM NOT IN ANY WAY SUGGESTING TO TRY AND PUSH YOUR RIFLE TO THOSE LEVELS. In a 45-70 size case you are pushing/exceeding 50,000 psi.


You're a life saver. Good thing you added the cautionary addendum cause I was just heading out onto the range to test a bunch of 50,000 psi loads in a gun I know nothing about, have never fired before and with barrel walls like tissue paper. grin crazy


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I think the core moral of the thread is that when you're dealing with Rossis, the newer Marlins (Remlins), & Baikals the rule "buyer beware" takes on a greater significance.
QC is a sporadic variable & there are no realistic expectations of a minimum level of quality or workmanship.
In other words when you open the box "What you see is what you get."


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Thanks for this thread guys - especially those of you who posted load data.


"Delight yourself in the Lord and He will give you the desires of your heart." Psalm 37, verse 4.


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Subject" Baikal MP 221.

Got mine adjusted finally. The adjustment is touchy, yes.

Did not succeed in solving the vertical offset, however: Shooting 425 gas check hard lead in the left barrel at 1850 fps and Barns 300g TXSFB in the right at 2120 fps was the solution. At 50 yards, 75 yards and 100 yards the barrels are within 1" of each other and horizontally equal, without crossing over. These loads do not exceed the MAX pressure stamped on the barrel, and are achieved with AA2495 powder. You can find them on AMMOGUIDE.com. Look at loads posted by frhunter13.

What I am still struggling with is the scope mount. My rings have walked all the way to the rear sight where they have stabilized.

Anyone find good rings for this tiny 11mm rail? I am about to pull the scope off and drill and tap two stop screws in the rail so the darn rings cant walk!

As for a game taker, it is better than many say and does have a place world wide.

Last edited by frhunter13; 03/11/17.
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Get a set of GOOD quality air rifle rings with the set screw that will go down into the lug recess at the back of the quarter rib, or pay the price for a mount for a Valmet 412, which fits the quarter rib and has a lug that fits the recess in the quarter rib.

That will also solve your QD problem. Mind worked like a charm.



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Ordered a set of Pryramid Air rings with the set screw. My rings are very good ones, but expected a slot. I will still drill and tap my own stop screws as long as I am pulling the scope! Thanks for the advice. They are too proud of that Valmet ring set! I am wondering why no third party people are making mounts for the Baikal. There seem to be enough out there.

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Shot the Baikal Sunday after the scope base mods. With the chrony this time, I get 1835fps with 425g Lead gas checked in the left barrel. I get 2280fps from the 300 Barns all copper spitzer flat base in the right barrel. After tightening the screw a bit I got (a small adjust) I get at 75 yards left shoots 5/8" left, right shoots 5/8" right, 0 high. I am confident I can hit 4" gong at 100 yards with either barrel.

So this is a now go to rifle for anything on this continent as long as it is fairly close.

About ALL I can expect from the Baikal MP 221. That is actually 1 1/4" between barrels at 75 yards.

Last edited by frhunter13; 03/29/17.
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