Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Africa 6.5 mm in Africa?

Hack just soiled his shorts..........

Mr. Raider, I could quite frankly not care any less about what a man decides to hunt with. Based on the experience of 20 plus years in the bush, I am trying to help folks decide on the prudent option. It is what I get paid for. Since I actually do get paid for my opinion,..... those funding my bank account usually pay attention.

Makes no difference to me if a fella wants to pay the trophy fee for a blood spot on the ground, or a trophy on his wall. Either way I'm getting paid. You are welcome to bring anything you want to hunt with when you hunt with me. But the impact of your bullet to an animal rings the register..............feel lucky?

Interesting stuff. I did not know about Bell.. Thanks for sharing.

Worked well for Francis Macomber's wife.

I don�t know much about folk lore in the history of the Internet hunting websites, but the context bit you speak of was that Bell was an ivory hunter roughly 100 years ago.
The context of: �Makes no difference to me if a fella wants to pay the trophy fee for a blood spot on the ground, or a trophy on his wall. Either way I'm getting paid� does not to me seem to me any more honorable than an ivory hunter operating under then conventions at the turn of the last century. Maybe I�m missing something, but stalking elephants on their migratory routes before the use of planes, lorrys, cell phones, trail cams, and a few other modern conveniences seems as sporting to me as someone waiting outside the park or behind a fence.
A hunter in the bush at that time needed the consent of the local governing authority if their career was going to have any longevity. Maybe they weren�t going to wait for return correspondence from Lisbon to cross a river, but I�m sure they sought the approval of the local authority whenever possible. Consent usually being with the understanding the locals get the meat. As an ivory hunter he really couldn�t be expected to pack around a couple of elephant carcasses at any given time now could he? Ivory hunters wanted to leave someone from their staff with the tusks at least until they could be buried. I�m also sure Bell would continue to look for them as long as practical, if for no other reason than it was money and even in those days finding them was hard work; Bell would not have just wondered off because it involved a walk. The question was if anyone has used the 6.5. To that end the answer is yes. With over 1000 jumbos, a goodly portion of which was collected with the 6.5 and inferior ammo, the answer is yes. Keeping Bell�s practices viewed in light of the 1900 � 1920s timeframe would provide a more accurate portrayal than using the 1990s on as a reference of standards and ethics. The guy took jumbo at 16 yards with a frontal brain shot, sounds sporting to me regardless of which European kingdom claimed ownership.

Okay, fine you're right........ the 6.5mm is the apex of elephant hunting because it's what Bell used, I will relent to your wisdom and all the experience you have. After all I just work there as a PH, what do I know?

As far as the blood spot on the ground or the trophy on the wall....... your confusion over this statement is quite telling, I suppose you can continue to assume what you like about that, or somebody else that cares to explain it will chime in.

Richard

It is the rule/law that should you take a shot and draw blood but not recover the animal you still pay for it

I didn't take my Swede to Africa but have some experience with the Swede on animals to 250 pounds on the hoof.....one can do better but I'm at a loss to explain how.....the Swede is a splendid cartridge for many of the plains game critters.....at least to 250 pounds and I'd not hesitate to use it on animals substantially larger as well.....say to 400 pounds.

I am NOT hunting elephants, I am an expert (get paid to shoot and instruct)Marksman. I never take a hurried shot if I am not confident that I can make it. I have never lost deer, elk or any large game animal in forty years of hunting. I spend a great deal of time shooting from field positions and maintain myself in top physical fitness. I can just bring the ole 06 but again, Kudu, Gemsbok, Eland, ....plains game. I have killed elk with 25-06 and 7-08 without difficulties.
Shot placement, shot placement, shot placement.

Longwalker:

Just for reference, here are a couple of links to current minimum calibers in various African countries.

AR Min Cal Posting

I know the listing above for South Africa is not correct and here is a link to the RSA game laws. RSA Hunting Standards & Norms You'll have to download the *.pdf file and skim down to Chapter 4.

The 6.5 is not legal in Namibia for listed "game" and can not be legally used in RSA on "game" larger than Springbok.

Here is the link to the Namibian hunting laws. NAPHA Hunting Law Summary

Oh I see, it�s about you and not having your authority challenged. Telling indeed. If not recognizing the difference between a statement of fact vs. an endorsement, your personal declaration of ethos as a PH, and the blanketing characterization of Bell somehow seems to emotionally wound you, what a joy you make it. Don�t hold it against Bell that he couldn�t fly in, grab a rental car, and drive to the farm. Beyond that, although it was not my original contention, the 6.5 is perfectly adequate for most all game the continent offers, regardless whether you have spent 20 years being a knucklehead.

Hi UKDave, I uderstand and thank you. I just prefer a PH that does care if you get a mount or blood trail for my money, and the game.

Richard, your presentation of what you believe to be fact about Bell shows that you have no knowledge of his history. He was a Poacher.

If I was such a Knucklehead would I be trying to help the people here that think sub 30 caliber rifles are adequate for the hunting Africa as a general rule, and more importantly the follow up blood trails to actually find the game they shoot?

The statement that I don't care what you bring is crystal clear. I don't care because it's your money. If you choose to bring a sub 30 caliber cartridge and the game you shoot cannot be located til morning, you're going to end up with chewed dismembered scraps. But that would be your choice to disregard what I suggested right?

How do you not get this when you read my post? How do you suggest that " I don't care" why would I be here and bother to discuss the cons of the sub 30 caliber cartridges?

You're right to an extent, if you deliberately choose other then .308 or larger, then I don't care, you were told by an experienced guy that has seen 1000's of big game shot, tracked and found or lost, or charged! when you decide to bring a little bore, then you pay your money and take your chances, why would I care, I'm getting paid either way. Even if I find it and kill it for you a week later.

This conversation is so clearly understood by me, you have never experienced this first hand have you? How much time have you spent with clients stressed beyond words that they have lost one of their trophies of a life time. How many evenings have you spent at camp watching everyone laughing and joking and telling the stories about the days hunts, while one hunter sitting quite after waiting a lifetime to hunt in Africa is depressed and worried that his trophy is lost or being ripped to pieces by Hyenas?

How about two days later when the same thing happens yet again! how much fun do you think it is for the PH that has to sit with all the clients and try to have a great time, while his client is sulking in the corner, because of the sadness he feels for losing a 55" kudu, a 26" impala, a 30" wildebeest, 18" blesbok? etc.

Not only the loss of the trophy but the 1500.00 bucks for a trophy fee as well! What does this do for his confidence to make the next shots on the remainder of the trip?

Yeah, what a great turn of events for the hunting trip of a life time eh, for this poor guy. You think I come here to type in lines of gibberish to humor people? This is my living, I take it serious, I'm not new to this game. You wanna ridicule me, go for it....... I have a level of confidence based on sound experience over decades of work in Africa. I get paid for my opinions and suggestions just like every other PH and Outfitter. My hunters ask me what to bring for every thing you can imagine from clothing to firearms, and bullets.

Why do you think they do that? What would they ask me that? Why do you think I have had over 400 hunters now in Africa? Because I have no idea what I'm doing or talking about? Maybe I should direct them to your Email or PM you can sort them out, you answer the questions and comfort them into knowing what to bring to stack the deck in favor of good success.

I'm curious as to what your source of information was? Is there some literary source that I'm missing, or is this just bush gossip/rumour mill? I can't imagine there's anybody still alive that would have first hand information about this, and what you've posted tends to run contrary to everything else I've read about the man.

For instance:
"Bell was a poacher" Bell operated largely in the abscence of law, not quite the same as operating contrary to the law. There was no law in the Karamojo at the time Bell was there. When he shifted operations to Ethiopa, it was with the permission of the military governor. When he went into the Lado, he had a permit from the Belgians, until King Leopold died, then again it was an abscence of law, with a flood of other hunters from the British colonies.

"he went deep into the bush with a wagon train " Bell writes of hunting on foot, with mules or oxen, by canoe, steam boat, and his last safari was motorized, but I never once came upon a reference to a "wagon train"

"Nothing was being tracked up, no trophies saved, no meat used, just shoot them and then let them run of to die of infection, or slowly bleeding to death."
Bell writes of constantly being followed by hoardes of natives wanting meat, and having a rule that no meat was to be touched until the ivory was chopped out. Were some carcasses wasted, and ivory left to rot out? Absolutely. Bell is candid about it. But if you're honest with yourself, you'll admit that this was still taking place in much more modern times.

So if Bell was a poacher, then so were many other. Selous, Neumann, Sutherland could all fall under your definition. Taylor was a self confessed poacher as was Ian Nychens.

If you have an alternate source of information regarding Bell, I would honestly like to know what it is so I can research it myself. At this point all we have to go on is Bell's own writings and the writings of those who knew him. And so far, unlike Taylor, Bell has never given us reason to doubt his written word.

I don�t think you can in any way equivocate being an ivory hunter in 1900 Africa with being a poacher as understood by today�s standards, but I do seem to recall Bell mentioning he had crossed a river to hunt in another country without permission. Hardly warrants the character assassination here. The OP never asked anyone's opinion, and beyond his use of the 6.5, Bell is irrelevant to the topic. But lets not stray from what is really important; can we just talk about JJ if he�s not too bashful.

ammo producer RWS define 6,5 swedish as : The 6.5 x 55 is definitely a fast cartridge with extended trajectory. Its internal precision is excellent and as a hunting cartridge it is optimally suitable for all medium-sized, but also for lighter red deer and wild boar.
Kudu, eland and oryx are not medium size game .
It's also alowed bullet (over 140gr) in my homeland Estonia for big game... but it's not the best option for it.
Have more than 10 years experience with swedish hunter coming over here to hunt mose or wildboar with 6,5 swedish...and fairily this is not the best option...it's work when you shoot from tower or stick but for driven hunt you need something "better and bigger"

Motorist,

Most kudu aren't any bigger than continental red deer, though further north they get bigger-bodied. They're also not as tough to kill as some other African animals either. I have seen bulls as heavy as 750 pounds (around 340 kilos) but most are 2/3 that weight.

Oryx are medium-sized game. A really huge bull will weigh 550 pounds (250 kilos) but most weigh 400-450 pounds.

Eland and moose are much bigger, bulls weighng 1000-1500 pounds, or even larger.

Hi John
I know what is kudu , have them two in my "collection" also oryx and some other African "creatures". Have some red deers as they dwells in our hunting lands. Number of mooses or wild boars havent even count And 6,5 swedish is not the optimal rifle to hunt them...at least not from driven hunt. Have over 25 years hunting experience on mooses, wild boars and red deers...from that my oppinio.
It's beautiful caliber for roe or similar size game even for longer distance...and can be used also for bigger "creatures" but...
In Estonia by the law you can also shoot bear with 6,5 swedish but will sapient hunter do it
Therefore understand JJHACk when he "do not support" 6,5 swedish for hunting in RSA.

I took this kudu bull with a 6mm 250 Ai. distance 432m. can a 6mm or 6,5 hunt African game? yes. do I recomend it? no, it is just a bit marginal, if you use it often and you feel comfortable with it, you will probably have no problems. for a foreighn hunter I allways recomend 270win as the min though I would prefer a 30 caliber.

LT DAN 432m...nice shot...I'm probably not ready for that .
20 or more years ago I hunt mooses with 22-250...head shot from 50-100m and down it was...but sometimes hands shake slightly and wounded animal was on the run...
we do not like wounded animals on the run...therefore use slightly bigger barrel than min.needed and part of your trouble are gone
At least this is my motto...
270 win is nice caliber have use it for wild boar and works perfectly

Motorist,

I wasn't stating any opinion on the 6.5mm's for African game, just pointing out there are vast differences in the size of gemsbok and eland, just as there are between red deer and moose.