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Campfire Ranger
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Yeah you read that right, pointy bullets in a tubular magazine rifle... I read with great interest three different articles on sing spitzer type bullets in tubular magaine rifles, and ALL of them could not get any damge of note to occur and concluded that we have been living by an old wives tale for a long, long time for no good reason. The most detailed work was done by then RIFLE and HANDLOADER editor Dave Scoville a couple of years ago. Seems Mr. Scoville tried and tried to get a pointy bullet to ignite a primer and the bullet points ALWAYS failed long before a primer was set off. And the plastic tipped ones fared no better. Not to be dissueaded form his science, Mr. Scoville then made up some ignition devices to forceably ignite a few cartirdges inside soe magazine tubes and even when the cartirdge DID go off, the energy expelled by the unsupported case and unhindered bllet was unimpressive and far from dangerous.
So, with this new information out there who has actuually USED pointy nosed bullets in thier magazine and not just one each in the tube and magazine but a tube full of 'em? Anyone? I am going to give some 130gr TTSX bullets a try in a 30/30AI.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Campfire Oracle
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Campfire Oracle
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I have other rifles to get froggy with.
"Dear Lord, save me from Your followers"
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Campfire Outfitter
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Yeah you read that right, pointy bullets in a tubular magazine rifle...
when the cartirdge DID go off, the energy expelled by the unsupported case and unhindered bllet was unimpressive and far from dangerous...
So, with this new information out there...I am going to give some 130gr TTSX bullets a try in a 30/30AI. What a great idea!  NOT!
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Can't see it myself. Round nose bullets work perfectly in the timber where I use my lever rifles. I have bolt action rifles for shooting pointy bullets.
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Campfire Tracker
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Can't see any reason too.Hornady came out with there rubber tipped bullets for tube magazines and gained little in my opinion.A 30-30 is just that and kills wonderfully with factory ammunition like the Core-Lokts and others at 30-30 distances.
I wouldn't want to chance a hot loaded pointed hard bullet in a tube magazine to test if it would not start a tube ignition..I've seen pictures of tube ignitions and it don't look to friendly.
Jayco
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Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
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looked all over and can't find a picture of that happening, maybe because no one will try it, but still can't find a picture of it on the net. I'm not doing it.
MM
Tell me the odds of putting grease on the same pancake? I Know they are there, well ice and house slippers. -Kawi
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Campfire Tracker
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Here is one of them..I don't have time to find the link but I had it saved. I had a magazine tube detonation in my Marlin 1895SS while firing Buffalo Bore's 430 grain hard cast 45/70 ammo. Damage to the gun was limited to the magazine tube and I was unharmed. Upon contacting Buffalo Bore Tim Sundles informed the same thing happened to him with the same ammo. He places blame on the design of the Marlin 1895SS, says the "bump" in the rear of the mag tube causes round to tip and contact primer. He went to Marlin with this and they didn't buy it. He wanted my rifle sent to him so he could try again. I talked to several reliable sources, including the NRA and NSSF, who advised me to send rifle to Marlin.
The NSSF specificly recomended I Talk to Harold Watterman at Marlin. I sent the rifle to Marlin who promptly checked and repaired it. When I received the rifle it came with warning, "WE ADVISE NOT USING BUFFALO BORE AMMO!"
I posted this warning on the Marlin web site talk forum. Tim Sundles responded defending his ammo, as to be expected. In defense of his product he has resorted to telling bold face lies. He claims I told him I bought the rifle and his ammo and fired it without checking bore or cleaning--LIE! The rifle was cleaned and had 2 boxes of Federal 300 grainers fired through it before his ammo was even purchased. It is true it was my first Marlin 45/70 , but not my first rifle by a long shot. I have firearms ranging from 22LR to 375H&H Magnum for years and handloaded them safely in this time. He insinuates I am some ignorant first time shooter who blew up a gun and that is wrong.
The fact is there are TWO documented cases of Marlin mag tube detonations in the last 27 YEARS-BOTH WITH HIS AMMO!!
Instead of trying to blame the gun and lie about the shooter he should accept responsibility for his defective product!!
Thanks,
Jim F. Jayco
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Campfire Regular
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I've used pointed bullets for years in both my 336 and 94. No problem, worked great, very accurate. BUT, I only had one in the chamber and one in the tube. If I can't get a deer with two shots, it don't deserve to die.  No difference than hunting birds with an O/U shotgun, if you know you only have two shots ya take a little more time to pull the trigger.
Last edited by jbmi; 09/23/12.
"The older I get, the better I was"
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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Here is one of them..I don't have time to find the link but I had it saved. I had a magazine tube detonation in my Marlin 1895SS while firing Buffalo Bore's 430 grain hard cast 45/70 ammo. Damage to the gun was limited to the magazine tube and I was unharmed. Upon contacting Buffalo Bore Tim Sundles informed the same thing happened to him with the same ammo. He places blame on the design of the Marlin 1895SS, says the "bump" in the rear of the mag tube causes round to tip and contact primer. He went to Marlin with this and they didn't buy it. He wanted my rifle sent to him so he could try again. I talked to several reliable sources, including the NRA and NSSF, who advised me to send rifle to Marlin.
The NSSF specificly recomended I Talk to Harold Watterman at Marlin. I sent the rifle to Marlin who promptly checked and repaired it. When I received the rifle it came with warning, "WE ADVISE NOT USING BUFFALO BORE AMMO!"
I posted this warning on the Marlin web site talk forum. Tim Sundles responded defending his ammo, as to be expected. In defense of his product he has resorted to telling bold face lies. He claims I told him I bought the rifle and his ammo and fired it without checking bore or cleaning--LIE! The rifle was cleaned and had 2 boxes of Federal 300 grainers fired through it before his ammo was even purchased. It is true it was my first Marlin 45/70 , but not my first rifle by a long shot. I have firearms ranging from 22LR to 375H&H Magnum for years and handloaded them safely in this time. He insinuates I am some ignorant first time shooter who blew up a gun and that is wrong.
The fact is there are TWO documented cases of Marlin mag tube detonations in the last 27 YEARS-BOTH WITH HIS AMMO!!
Instead of trying to blame the gun and lie about the shooter he should accept responsibility for his defective product!!
Thanks,
Jim F. Jayco the authors of those articles, Scoville for sure in this case, DID say that the sharp edge of a hardcast flatnosed bullet was, according to his experiments, FAR more likely to cause a detonation than a spitzer point bullet. The heavy nose pieces want to droop down and put the hard, sharp edge of the bullet in contact with the primer cup in a more direct fashion that a spitzer bullet can do. Your quite demonstrates that quite nicely as the bullet used was a FNHC and not a spitzer.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Campfire Tracker
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Just what do you expect to gain for the risk involved compared to available bullets for leveractions?
Jayco
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Higher velocities and thusly more energy at longer distnaces and a much flatter trajectory for easier long range hits than what a 30/30 class rifle has typically been capable of. the same things we gain, all measureable and actual and real world useful, when we use higher ballistic Co-effficient bullets in other calibers. Make a reaaly good rifle even BETTER. And, I am an experimenter as well as tinkerer. Then there is the question of WHAT risks? The scientific proof seems to indicate that there are no risks in using pointed bullets in a tubular magazine. So, all gain, no risk, what is not to love about the idea?
BTW, on one of my trips to Zimbabwe, one of the PH's I hunted iwth frequently had an old peep sighted 30/30 winchester whose tube was kept full of 125gr plastic tipped Spitzers for use on Baboons, Impala, Hyena, warthogs etc and he had been loading them that way for a very long time. A rifle that rides in the back of a safari car over the rocky terrain of Northern Zimabawe seems like a GREAT place to test this theory as such a rifle gets jarred around and bounced a great deal more than anything we would ever see here and is fired far, far more often than we would ever get to do here as well. His rifle and hands etc. are all still very much in tact. I will try to find one of the articels and post it up here. The pointy bullets, according to each of the authors I read 1) ride nose down and do not have the ability to rise up enough to get anywhere near the primer cup of a cartridge ahead of it 2) do not have noses that are hard enough to casue a primer to go off and 3) the recoil energy, iincluding the snap back after recoil is no where near sufficient in force to cause a primer detonation. Thusly, no risk and all benefit.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Campfire Tracker
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Since your loading Barnes bullets.....
*The 130-grain TSX bullet has a spitzer ogive and is NOT suitable for use in tubular magazines.
The COAL of cartridges loaded with this bullet is much longer than the SAAMI maximum, and is
generally suitable for use only in single-shot firearms.
I sure don't understand why with so many other options out there but to each his own.
Jayco
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Campfire Regular
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If you want to use pointy tip bullets in a tubular magazine go ahead.
Remington's old series of auto centerfires had tubular as a safety factor, magazines which kept the cartridges at an angle where they were not touching the one in front. In fact Marlin was experimenting with a 336 converted to 250-3000 Savage with such a magazine, but it never made it to market, also they were toying around with the idea of marketing a 336 in .300 Savage.
If one wants to use pointy tips in a lever use the Hornady ammo or obtain a Mdl 99, 88 or a BLR. As far as ballistic efficiency Mike Venturino of Rifle magazine did a test sometime back comparing round nose ammo and pointy tip ammo. Over lever action distances there was no practical difference in trajectories.
I have three lever actions: A 45/70, a .35 Remington and a .357 Magnum. Personally I have no desire to make any one of them into a 270.
Happy Trails!
NRA Life Member
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Campfire Outfitter
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...125gr plastic tipped Spitzers... Plastic tipped bullets should be the exception. It would seem there is little risk with these: http://www.hornady.com/store/LEVERevolution-with-MonoFlex-Bullets-ammo/
"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon
"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg
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Campfire Ranger
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I was mosty checking to see if anyone else had read these articles and maybe started using some aerodynamic bullets for a change. Seems like not yet.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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I worked up a 30-30 load with Barnes 130 TSX's at 2500 fps a couple years ago. PBR is around 250 yards. I am now playing with the 130TTSX and LVR powder. I got 2650 fps with 38.5 grains LVR. PBR, according to the tables, is over 275 yards. I think that is a significant improvement over typical 30-30 loads. I am still working with this combo. I have not put two at a time in the tube yet but I did read the Scoville article and may well do it.
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Campfire Outfitter
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I just loaded up a few boxes of the leverrevolution 160 bullets in my 30-30 marlin.
With the leverrevolution powder I used,I should be getting somewhere around 2300 fps .
**********************
[the member formerly known as fluffy}
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Campfire Ranger
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I worked up a 30-30 load with Barnes 130 TSX's at 2500 fps a couple years ago. PBR is around 250 yards. I am now playing with the 130TTSX and LVR powder. I got 2650 fps with 38.5 grains LVR. PBR, according to the tables, is over 275 yards. I think that is a significant improvement over typical 30-30 loads. I am still working with this combo. I have not put two at a time in the tube yet but I did read the Scoville article and may well do it. We are on the same page, I want to do it with a peep sighted Model 94 in 30/30AI.
LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.
About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
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I worked up a 30-30 load with Barnes 130 TSX's at 2500 fps a couple years ago. PBR is around 250 yards. I am now playing with the 130TTSX and LVR powder. I got 2650 fps with 38.5 grains LVR. PBR, according to the tables, is over 275 yards. I think that is a significant improvement over typical 30-30 loads. I am still working with this combo. I have not put two at a time in the tube yet but I did read the Scoville article and may well do it. We are on the same page, I want to do it with a peep sighted Model 94 in 30/30AI. How good can you shoot {grouping ability} past 200 yds with that peep sighted Winchester ? No point having a 300 yd. capable load in a 200 yd. launching platform.
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The rifle with a receiver sight: ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Pic_2_resized.jpg) A couple groups with the receiver sight. The 130 TTSX/38.5 LVR 100 yard group after rethroating the rifle. I lost about 100 fps and velocities got erratic when I changed the throat. I need to work it back up to where it was. The upper group was shot with some leftover 130TSX/W748 loads. It was shot without cleaning after shooting about 100 rounds of cast bullet loads. The first round is at the upper left and you can see how much blacker the ring around the hole is from fouling in the bore. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/Winchester_64_Barnes.jpg) The rifle with a Leupold scout scope. Given good light I think a 300 yard shot is possible. I have found that the scout scope doesn't do well for me in low light. ![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/544/Model_64_resized.jpg)
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