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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319
Campfire Ranger
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OP
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 23,319 |
"All that the South has ever desired was that the Union, as established by our forefathers, should be preserved, and that the government, as originally organized, should be administered in purity and truth." – Robert E. Lee
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 46,965 |
Iran obviously has problems and is far from perfect. But given the tidal wave of propaganda in the news which is doing everything possible to �demonize the enemy� to justify war, we think it is valuable to provide some balance and perspective. Islam is the problem and it demonizes itself quite well with no help from propaganda, which is that this link is. The nazi's made Jewish musicians play beautiful music while their brethern were marched to their death. This link would try to achieve the same effect, but I doubt it will work here.
We may know the time Ben Carson lied, but does anyone know the time Hillary Clinton told the truth?
Immersing oneself in progressive lieberalism is no different than bathing in the sewage of Hell.
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
I guessed it right about a quarter of the way down. But I cheated, I have a BIL who grew up there. There re a lot of folks here who would like to see Iran turned into a big glass parking lot. I do not think it is that simple. I cannot see killing all the Asearian Christians who still live in Iran. Some of them are family.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 34,261 |
Well shiver me timbers! Who would have thought.
Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous
"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous
"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 14,653 |
There'll sure be some pretty flowers blown up soon.
your flippant remarks which you so adeptly sling
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Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,096
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,096 |
Well, I AM nitpicking, but that's the Middle East, not Europe. Otherwise, I didn't guess it at all and had to go to the end to find out where it was!
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
There'll sure be some pretty flowers blown up soon. Along with a lot of good people who hate their government.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 20,379 |
Well, I AM nitpicking, but that's the Middle East, not Europe. Otherwise, I didn't guess it at all and had to go to the end to find out where it was! Persians have always considered themselves European, as they are not arabs.. We could overthrow that country in a couple of days time without a shot fired, but the war hawks and politicians in this country are too stupid to realize it.
I replace valve cover gaskets every 50K, if they don't need them sooner...
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Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 39,301 |
Once again we agree. Sadly I think no one in charge has a clue.
The first time I shot myself in the head...
Meniere's Sucks Big Time!!!
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 29,786 |
These are my opinions, feel free to disagree.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
A few selective photo's does not prove one thing or another.
That said, the parts of Iran and Iraq that constituted the old Persia were the birth place of modern civilization.
I know a couple of Iranian families that emigrated following the over throw of the Shah and they are decent, well educated and cultured people. Although Muslims, they detest the Fundamentalist Muslims who they hold responsible for the decline of their country.
I really hate the idea of a war with Iran, but I suspect the nature of the Fundamentalist government in Iran will make it inevitable, especially from Israel's perspective.
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
We could overthrow that country in a couple of days time without a shot fired, but the war hawks and politicians in this country are too stupid to realize it. We probably could as we did in Iraq, but look at the mess that turned into..I for one do not want British boots on the ground. If that is unavoidable, we should go there to fight a war and then get out and forget all notions of nation building..
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 13,234 |
... we should go there to fight a war and then get out and forget all notions of nation building.. IIRC, that was our intention in Iraq. Then somebody figured out there was a whole lot of (my) money to be made in nation-building, and things got out of hand. As they usually do.
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26,456
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 26,456 |
There'll sure be some pretty flowers blown up soon. Along with a lot of good people who hate their government. This^^^^^^^^
FJB & FJT
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
IIRC, that was our intention in Iraq. Then somebody figured out there was a whole lot of (my) money to be made in nation-building, and things got out of hand. As they usually do.
While undoubtedly some saw a chance to make money, I think that under international Law, there is a responsibility on the winning side to stabilize/rebuild the defeated nation and not just pull out leaving in a shambles.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
From my limited viewpoint, it appears as though there is some level of stability in Iraq. There not going nuts like their neighboring countries Syria and Iran.
In that respect something was accomplished. Whether it's stays that way, long term, is yet to be seen.
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
The thought nation building building rubs me the wrong way but can you imagine what the ME would be like if the coalition forces had pulled out and left a power vacuum filled by a regime that was friendly to Syria and Iran?
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
From my limited viewpoint, it appears as though there is some level of stability in Iraq. There not going nuts like their neighboring countries Syria and Iran.
In that respect something was accomplished. Whether it's stays that way, long term, is yet to be seen. Given the amount of bombings still going on, I would not say Iraq is anywhere near stable, and certainly not as stable (oppressed?) as it was under Sadam. I would say that's the current situation in Iran i.e stability through oppression. From the media reports it would seem the situation in Syria is a lot worse and the country is in a state of civil war. If Assad looses, it will be interesting to see if the replacement Government is a significant improvement. Judging how things have gone in Egypt and Libya, I doubt any new Syrian Government would be in any way more pro Western...
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Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 12,895 |
The thought nation building building rubs me the wrong way but can you imagine what the ME would be like if the coalition forces had pulled out and left a power vacuum filled by a regime that was friendly to Syria and Iran? Although not politically correct, I suspect the only way to do business with the ME is from a position of strength. In the case of Iraq, I would have liked us to have gone in, done the business and then withdrawn. Once the new leaders had established themselves, we should have simply told them to play ball, or we would remove them from power; a policy of using lots of "stick" and a little "carrot" if you will..
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 17,289 |
I didn't say stable ... it was "some level of stability in Iraq".
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