24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,948
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 1,948
China only makes 5% on manufacturing, probably even less on textiles, if a company can grow say 15-20% annually in the US by manufacturing there is it worth it for that growth? What about 25-30% growth? (Playing devils advocates here a bit).


Wanted: Vintage Remington or Winchester hats, patches, shirts. PM me if you have something.

BP-B2

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 748
U
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
U
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 748

A good friend on mine goes to China for 1 week out of 4-5, he works in electronics and buys component parts, we were talking about cost and pricing and the trend that he is seeing is that with the cost of shipping (fuel) etc, and the unrest that the workers have about low wages and the information that they can obtain via the internet he believes that the market disparity will contract dramatically within the next 5 years, he is in the process of looking for a UK supplier/manufacturer of UK made component parts, the strategy being that they can market their product as "made in England".

You only have to see what has been happening at the plant that Apple use to make the Iphone/Ipad etc, to see that things are changing.


Canada by choice, British by Blood


People think there's a rigid class system here, but dukes have been known to marry chorus girls. Some have even married Americans.

HRH Prince Phillip

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
K
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
That is certainly an interesting and hope-enhancing post, Dave and I would love to see the "old" quality of British manufacture of so many goods return.

An example, was the old merino woolens, such as "Mellofleece" long underwear, the best I have ever used. We would buy this in the '60s and into the late '70s, my last set wore until about four years ago and was warmer than any currently available merino base layers I have....several highend brands.

Mellofleece, under a down duvet was all one required to keep comfortable down to -20*F and with a sweater added, plus heavy woolen pants, I have been good to snowshoe all day at -40. I would LOVE to be able to "Buy British", again!

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191
I don't get why companies like Mellofleece (or KUIU for that matter) can't manufacture a premium level product in their home country, and make a profit.

I've never been one to live a "secret life" and hide behind a keyboard. I'm a real human, with a real job.

I work in a plywood mill in NW Montana. I've been at that job a lot of years. I'm good at it, and am a 2nd string "lead" in my department. I'm a company man when I'm on the clock, and a serious [bleep] off when I'm not.

It's no secret that the housing market took a huge hit 4 years ago, and housing starts pretty much dissapeared. We laid off about a quarter of our workforce, when several other mills completely folded. What kept us alive (and in fact we were making the stock holders money within 18 months) was that we had forward thinking management that chased after niche market panels that were immune to the "commoditization" of the wood industry. For this to work, it took the employees to be on board with it... How does a company do that? Easy, you take your key employees in your key areas, and give them an "incentive pay" based on exceeding a targeted footage, and take rejects right off the top of that bonus. The guys making incentive make decisions on the fly that impact the company financially without lots of bullshit or red tape. Guys not making incentive are busting their ass and realize they're paying their dues. Guys that just show up hoping they can slack ass and make a good wage riding others shirt-tails usually find that their life is hell and all their co-workers [bleep] on them and quit (much more effective than having to deal with it from a management perspective in a litigous society these days) Guys like me?? I'm the [bleep] that provides the "tune-ups" to guys on my crew when needed. And then we drink beer in the parking lot after shift and we're all buddies again.

Bottom line... America needs to get back to 1950's logic. Both companies AND employees. We've turned into a country of "what's in it for me's" and slackers that suffer from a chronic lack of ass whipin's. Companies need to pay their employees in a fashion that fosters productivity, and employees need to bust ass in a fashion that makes their company money in a fashion that is safe and efficient.

Bitch less, do more, and make a fair wage. That's what America needs. Guys like me that work in a business that contributes to this countries GDP are way to few. And we wonder why China owns us and gas is approaching 4 bucks a gallon...


I'm Irish...

Of course I know how to patch drywall
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,127
G
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
G
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 7,127
Well put, Dan. People who work and produce real product carry the rest of the the country on their backs. Problem is, there are fewer carriers and more getting carried. GD

IC B2

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 490
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by kcnboise
Speaking from personal experience, I couldn't disagree more about outsourcing leading to Americans having more money to spend and invest. I've worked with many Japanese and Chinese companies, as well as European and South American companies. I know how the Global Economy is supposed to work, but it only works that way for certain people...

My last job was analyzing and implementing an offshore transfer of a product assembled in the USA to China. My analysis showed that within 5 years of transfer that total landed cost would be a wash, due to the upward trends of labor costs in China and in shipping and logistics. The company went ahead with the transfer anyway. I did my job too well, and ended up unemployed for almost 2 1/2 years, along with many of the other people I worked with. I had to cash in most of my investments while unemployed, not to maintain the standard of living I had when I was working, but to keep a roof over our heads and food on our table. I'm now working again, at another company, for 2/3 of the salary I was making before. I have less money to spend and invest, less benefits due to loss of years with the company, and 1/3 of the vacation time to spend what I do have, not to mention the loss of time I have to be with my family.

Last month I talked with a friend that still works for the company. He told me I was right, and that they were in the process of bringing products back to the USA. Due to the expense of both transfers the products will end up losing more money than if they'd stayed the course in the USA. You'd think that that would have given me some small measure of satisfaction, but it didn't; just gave me a hollow feeling...


Please no one ignore this post. He lived it.

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,552
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,552
I am educated but simple. I am not educated on any aspect of economics or sociology.

Simply put.......ANYBODY but the Chinese! Please. Was a loyal KUIU guy from the start. Enjoyed telling people I met it was a US company with Canadian manufacturing. I am done.

If its schitty or not, I do NOT wish success or fortune for Jason. Like a 5 year old who runs away for an hour thinking they will "hurt" their parents thinking "You'll miss me when I am gone".......I hope those of us who stop buying makes an impact on his business. If only for the fact of getting it across that. Some people are still Proud of America or at least have some type of Spine if nothing else. Always quicker to give my bucks to Canada, UK, NZ or anywhere but China.

Rather buy Montana plywood and burn it rather than Chinese schitt and use it. Sorry. But maybe I am to stupid to understand the whole problem?

Dan, maybe you need to work for Evan and you both can kick off a major change in the outdoor gear world? I already enjoy HPG stuff, we just need more items and clothing now.


Please God, give me some good tags this year....
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191
65K a year and bennies and I'd do just about anything thats legal.

Jesse, I agree that it's easier to do business with outsourced products when the people making them live in a place with a similar standard of living. At the risk of sounding racist, this isn't the case with oriental companies.


I'm Irish...

Of course I know how to patch drywall
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15
New Member
Offline
New Member
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 15
Amen, Dan.


Aaron
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
E
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
E
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 33,856
Originally Posted by Higbean
Originally Posted by Huntr
Crap, just checked my new Verde Attack pants, and the tag does say Made in China. Never thought of checking that since until today they said everything was made in N. America. What a shame.


I'd be pissed about that.
I'm sure they passed on the savings, right?


The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time by the blood of patriots and tyrants.

If being stupid allows me to believe in Him, I'd wish to be a retard. Eisenhower and G Washington should be good company.
IC B3

Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921
B
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
B
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,921
They better offer lifetime warranty on their gear now.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 490
Campfire Member
Offline
Campfire Member
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 490
[quote=bearstalker][/quote]


Last edited by dinkshooter; 10/15/12.
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 618
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 618
I was thinking about this this morning and another aspect occured to me. When I'm designing our products, I pattern them myself from scratch -- either on rolls of newsprint or graph paper that I scale to the fabric. Then I make the prototypes myself and we test the prototypes. When our OEM production facility in Missouri gets a new product, they get all of my patterns and the prototype. The only real differences between my prototypes and final production are due to the fact that I don't have a bartacker or edge binder like the factory does.

One of the main reasons we're not in the garment business is that I don't have the chops to pattern something to go around the human body. I could certainly work with a clothing designer to get the cut and features that we think are important in a garment, but they'd be doing the hard work of taking an idea and making it work in the real world.

How that ties in with Kuiu is that I started wondering if Kuiu's founder is patterning his own clothing or working with clothing designers to translate his vision into reality. I know that the guys in Vancouver have that facility because Arcteryx mentioned it to us when they recommended that shop to use for production of our garment like product. Then I started wondering if the Vancouver shop had done design work for Kuiu as a loss leader on the way to building what they expected to be a long and mutually profitable relationship, only to see that design get awarded to another factory.

To be clear, this is all completely uninformed musing -- but it does go to show just how complex and interdependent the relationship between a design and sell shop and their manufacturing partner can be. I am truly thankful for our manufacturing partner every time I think of them, and I hope they appreciate the business we've given them since literally before their company was up and running.

Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,191
If you build it, they will come...


I'm Irish...

Of course I know how to patch drywall
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,552
J
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
J
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 2,552
Dan, that's no schitt. I am glad there are a handful of people that still-at least PREFER- to Buy American. It's only opinion, but I feelif more US made garments and products were available, more would buy them....and I dare say quality secondary in importance. Lots of guysike myself pissed off on the KUIU thread. But many forgive and forget so easily. I don't get people today???

You lie to me, cross me for valid reasons, or shoot my dog.....you'd better watch your azz for a LONG time. I don't kiss and make up in 30 minutes. And these are qualities I feel are admirable not undesirable.....most however, do not.


Please God, give me some good tags this year....
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,252
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,252
Made in Montana-

http://www.outaware.com/

Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
K
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
Outstanding!!! That company is EXACTLY what I have been looking for as I need to replace some badly worn clothing items, made in Canada, the USA and the UK, that I bought years ago.

I really like his reinforced travel pants and the Couloir Bibs as well as his whole approach to manufacturing and wilderness conservation. I WILL be ordering from him and the bibs are going to be my Christmas present to myself.

I WILL buy from our friends in the US, UK, and Scandanavian-German nations as well as "OZ" and "KIWI" and NOT from the Chinamen, even if it DOES cost more.

Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 884
T
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
T
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 884
After reading most of the posts, one thing is clear. Most of the posters are not manufacturers or retailers. The minute I hear terms like "fair" or "good living" wage and "reasonable" profit, I'm turned off because this is the thinking of the left. Unless interfered with by the government, the market will set the value of everything. People espousing "Buy American" have no problem with us exporting to other countries, thereby taking jobs (existing or potential) from their citizens. We have never lost any jobs to another country, we simply gave them away by being noncompetitive for what ever reason. The reasons we are noncompetitive are too many to argue hear, so I'm going to talk China. The United States has a long history of discrimination to and distrust of Asians in general. Again, too much to discuss here. The basic reason for China's success is the work ethic of the Chinese people. You can find Chinese immigrants in every corner of the world, and weather brought there as "cheap" labor or got there on their own, as a group they became successful productive members of society. As a group, nobody works harder than the Chinese. Just read about the building of the transcontinental railroad. Weather in an ISO 9001 factory in China or a "sweat shop" in "China Town", you won't see workers just standing around. How many Chinese do you see on welfare? The only reason Chinese drop out of school is to GET A JOB. And when they get that job or start a business, they will work as many hours as necessary. I say China is succeeding because of their "Gung Ho" attitude. They are not doing well because they are a Communist Dictatorship, they are doing well inspite of it. God help us if the Chinese ever become a true capitalist nation. Nobody can out produce the United States when we put our backs into it. Our production and will won WWII. We did what ever it took to win because failure wasn't an option. We must apply that same WWII will to win to our economic problems. Until we get off our lazy asses and get back to a pro-business government government, we will continue our decline. We must quit blaming others for our problems and solve them ourselves. We sacrificing our long term well being for temporary comfort, just as all the great societies before us did.

Last edited by timbo762; 10/20/12.

Rich or poor, it pays to have money.
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
K
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
K
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 7,739
The Canadian Pacific Railroad did have some Chinese "coolies"among the labourers who built it and they actually built about 6.5 % of the total. The FACTS of North American history are and have long been distorted to serve the interests of the wealthy and this is merely one of the errors in the above rant.

The Chinamen, who have come to Canada, in hordes, since the idiotic changes to our immigration laws circa 1967, CONSTANTLY lobby for and receive large, TAX funded GRANTS for their cultural associations, as do other Asian immigrant groups. The FACTS can be checked on the C.I.C. website as well as on several others and these grants ARE ...welfare...

The Chinamen, DO NOT have a superior work or any other ethic to we white, native North Americans, however, the brutal sweatshop conditions of that COMMUNIST, TOTALITARIAN and murderous national regime make lower retail prices HERE available to those for whom price is paramount.

I could go on, with a FACTUAL rebuttal of other erroneous aspects of the foregoing, but, I have to take my wife for her walk to strengthen her back, after her spinal surgery. I will just add that I WAS a retail owner, manager of another retail business and have worked with many Asians.....and, they ARE NOT in ANY respect superior workers to anyone.

BUY NORTH AMERICAN!!!

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,316
A
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
A
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 25,316
Originally Posted by timbo762
After reading most of the posts, one thing is clear. Most of the posters are not manufacturers or retailers. The minute I hear terms like "fair" or "good living" wage and "reasonable" profit, I'm turned off because this is the thinking of the left. Unless interfered with by the government, the market will set the value of everything. People espousing "Buy American" have no problem with us exporting to other countries, thereby taking jobs (existing or potential) from their citizens. We have never lost any jobs to another country, we simply gave them away by being noncompetitive for what ever reason. The reasons we are noncompetitive are too many to argue hear, so I'm going to talk China. The United States has a long history of discrimination to and distrust of Asians in general. Again, too much to discuss here. The basic reason for China's success is the work ethic of the Chinese people. You can find Chinese immigrants in every corner of the world, and weather brought there as "cheap" labor or got there on their own, as a group they became successful productive members of society. As a group, nobody works harder than the Chinese. Just read about the building of the transcontinental railroad. Weather in an ISO 9001 factory in China or a "sweat shop" in "China Town", you won't see workers just standing around. How many Chinese do you see on welfare? The only reason Chinese drop out of school is to GET A JOB. And when they get that job or start a business, they will work as many hours as necessary. I say China is succeeding because of their "Gung Ho" attitude. They are not doing well because they are a Communist Dictatorship, they are doing well inspite of it. God help us if the Chinese ever become a true capitalist nation. Nobody can out produce the United States when we put our backs into it. Our production and will won WWII. We did what ever it took to win because failure wasn't an option. We must apply that same WWII will to win to our economic problems. Until we get off our lazy asses and get back to a pro-business government government, we will continue our decline. We must quit blaming others for our problems and solve them ourselves. We sacrificing our long term well being for temporary comfort, just as all the great societies before us did.


I disagree.....

'Forced to stand for 24 hours, suicide nets, toxin exposure and explosions': Inside the Chinese factories making iPads for Apple

'Working excessive overtime without a single day off during the week'
'Living together in crowded dorms and exposure to dangerous chemicals'
Two explosions in 2011 in China 'due to aluminum dust' killed four workers
Almost 140 injured after using toxin in factory, reports New York Times




By Mark Duell
UPDATED:03:10 EST, 27 January 2012

Comments (419)
Share





.
.

Working excessive overtime without a single day off during the week, living together in crowded dormitories and standing so long that their legs swell and they can hardly walk after a 24-hour shift.

These are the lives some employees claim they live at Apple�s manufacturing centres in China, where the firm�s suppliers allegedly wrongly dispose of hazardous waste and produce improper records.

Almost 140 workers at a supplier in China were injured two years ago using a poisonous chemical to clean iPhone screens - and two explosions last year killed four people while injuring more than 75.


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...actories-making-iPads.html#ixzz29rvgitWe
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook


�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.

---------------------------------------------------------
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
Page 4 of 5 1 2 3 4 5

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
96 members (10gaugemag, 16penny, 257_X_50, 338Rules, 444Matt, 13 invisible), 1,732 guests, and 724 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,727
Posts18,400,720
Members73,822
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.095s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9135 MB (Peak: 1.0899 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-29 07:32:19 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS