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Joined: Feb 2003
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Back visiting here- Rob from Ar and and myself
have been testing our 12GA FH. First the cases
are built on bmg brass we put rims on , that match
12ga. Next chambers will take our 3.85 iinch case
as well as shorter shotshells. We both have rifled barrels,
and these are mainly high speed slug guns. Rob's
is built on big Borchardt falling block action and can be loaded to 55-60,000 psi. Mine is on a 12ga Savage 210
bolt action, and is loaded to 35,000 psi. We both have heavy barrels.Rob got a 750 gr banded brass slug to
3000 fps, and a 7/8 oz saboted bullet to 4300 fps.I got a 730 gr hardened lead Dixie bullet out at 2700 fps and
a 3/4 oz saboted bullet out at 3900.Ed.


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Hubel458,

That is very interesting. Besides the obvious pleasures of building the beast and the internal / external ballistics experiments, is there any other practical purpose for these behemoths?

Out of curiousity how heavy is your Savage, and what is the recoil of a 730 gr pill @ 2700 fps like in it? It would seem to be that in order to tame that recoil the rifle would need to be a bit heavy for "normal" hunting techinques.

AC

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AC--Mine is 25 lbs-Have 5lbs lead and epoxy in the butt.
Recoil is brisk but not bruizing. As for uses, a good DG
stopping gun with 700-1000 gr slugs. With sabots good
for deer, especially in shotgun only areas.Mine could be lightened to 15 lbs for sabot shooting. For carry, I
use the African, over the shoulder, barrel forward, and slightly down, carry position.Ed.


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WOW! Those are some impressive ballistics! Are you using a strain guage to measure pressures? I would like to see photos of these montrosities. What ya'll got there is TRULY BIG BORE stuff! Fun post.


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Safariman-I use formula and MBP chart to run pressures,
with chrono. My pressures range between 20,000 and 35,000
psi for the Savage bolt action.It has a 3 lug bolthead,
and pretty strong for a overgrown shotgun bolt action,
and 35,000 is max pressure based on shear rating that
I calculated of the lugs with proper safety margin.The powders are all slow,using the case capacity.Here is pic of case next to regular 12ga shell.ED

[Linked Image]


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Hubel458,

Not sure I would want to tote a 25 pounder all day, even with it in an African/MG carry position. I know I can do 17 pounds, but 25 seems a tad too much.

Not knowing what powders or COL are exactly for your loads, and using a 26" barrel my internal ballistics program predicted a peak chamber pressure of ~ 43 ksi for your 730gr load and ~ 38 ksi for your 3/4 oz load. I was using Rel 22 for powder. Regardless, still very impressive ballistics with mild pressure.

The hotter loads you mentioned someone else getting ran 58 ksi and 59 ksi respectively.

AC

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Ac--My barrel is 31 in. I'm using real slow DB Ball
powders, up to 320grains on 730 gr lead calculated
out at 35k. Used a medium speed DB ball on sabot and
calculated same peak pressure.Rob's loads are lower
also as he used ball. His action will take any pressure
that the brass could hold, even high test loads.I haven't
had to resize the bottom of the 4 cases I have used for
many shots each for our testing.One has been fired 30 times.Ed.


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mercy, miss percy. can't get the pic.


abiding in Him,

><>fish30ought6<><
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picture is a no show here too. Can you try again? how about pics of the guns?


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Ok- Pics should be working in a day or two..We are moving website, to different host and they haven't got change
done yet.I see pics as it is still showing on my ISP.
Will put up picture of my gun also,when changeis done.
Here is pic of Rob's.Ed

[Linked Image]

Last edited by hubel458; 01/10/06.

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Quote
mercy, miss percy. can't get the pic.


LOL.. So, I'm not the ONLY one with pix-posting-problems.. LMAO...


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now that is a stump-puller. thanks for the pic. i think i saw the savage on another site some time back while the falling block was still on the drawing board ...


abiding in Him,

><>fish30ought6<><
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fish- yes his is a beautiful rifle. He
has got the real traditional big game look in
that gun. He also shot a few long 2000gr bore rider
banded solid brass bullets, at 1500 fps. Couldn't
go higher as recoil got too much.


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I believe even the ghost of Elmer Keith would be impressed<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


Please don't feed the trolls!
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uh, no kidding ...


abiding in Him,

><>fish30ought6<><
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Fun post and commentary etc. Thanks.


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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Been gone for a few days, so I missed this post. Holy Monkey! Did some cruching to put these into perspective for myself and I thought I'd share:
730gr @ 2700fps 11,820 ft-lbs Taylor Knock-out 206
750gr @ 3000fps 14,992 ft-lbs Taylor Knock-out 235

Didn't know how many grains of powder to figure so I plugged in 275 and recoil varies from 135 ft-lbs to 195 ft-lbs, even in a 25# gun. Those are some hairy chested shooting irons.


If at first you don't succeed, keep on suckin' 'til you do succeed. ~Curly Howard
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BJ72--On the lead 730 gr loads, 320 gr of
AA Magpro ball powder in my
25 lb gun--
320 gr of W_748 behind the banded Bridger solid
750 gr in Rob's gun which is 30 lbs.
The guns have good balance and big thick pads,
so not that bad. Watched AR poster 'tailgunner'
shoot mine Sunday and muzzle only went up 6 inches.
And he not a big guy. We have some who will bore out chambers on Encores and NEFs with heavy barrels, to use our long case, and there the recoil will get interesting.Ed.


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<------51yrs, 5'8 & 185lb, and yes, I not only went back for more that day, I'd be willing to shoot it again anyday.
Thanks again Ed.
[Linked Image]
408 Chey-Tac
500 Nitro 3"
2 700 Hubel Express rounds undergoing forming
12ga FH round, with a Bridger solid on board
12ga 2 3/4" Federal 3/4oz Barnes slug

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Whoa, those are impressive! I think we should smack some ground squirrels with one!


LOVE God, LOVE your family, LOVE your country, LIKE guns and sports.

About 2016 team "R" candidates "We definitely need a crew with a sack of balls the size of hot water bottles, bloviated estrogen leaking feel-gooders need not apply." Gunner 500
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