Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs A boy and a setter.........

Meet Garrett.



Here's Jake.



Getting together.

At five months we're getting down to business.









But don't think we don't know how to relax.

This dog we've been working with is quite the hunter already. He is almost five months old and I am so pleased with how far he has progressed.

I've put little if any pressure on him at this point but tried to teach him covertly. He loves the gun and the truck. Kennel has become a comfortable place. He keeps track of me and loosely quarters (redirects) when I whistle softly to him. He doesn't know any formal commands although come and heel are being worked on. He has natural talent and has pointed a handful of birds at this point. Surprisingly he has retrieved almost all of them. What a bonus!

I'm picking my hunting spots and partners with ideal training setup in mind. Trying to keep things calm and positive. I made a mistake last weekend and unknowingly put him on too many wild running birds (50+) in too open of any area (dry land stubble). He overloaded with all the scent and flying birds and simply went wild with me unable to control him. I told my party to go along without me and gathered him up and had a pleasant walk back to the truck. My bad.

My questions are how would you guys approach the remainder of the season? My gut tells me to keep it simple and fun with no pressure. Jeez he's already pointed and retrieved five or six roosters for me. Or do I consider collar conditioning and lean on him a bit? I've always been impatient with pointing dogs now that I look back with hindsight. Coming from a lab background I didn't understand the maturity/development differences. Meanwhile am I missing opportunities?

Please give me your thoughts and experience.

Thanks,

Scott

Wonderful pics.
I envy you, with having a son to share this with.
I can't help with training other than gets some videos and books, or seek professional help.
Enjoy both your son and dog, as time goes by quickly.

ScottM,

Great pics sir. The dog at 5 moths has clear talent and you damn well should be proud. Too many birds is a huge confusion to a young pup but it happens. Easy hunts that stress obedience but are a bit loose on the formal stuff are probably great for him and for you as your learning more about Jake every minute.

What your doing is clearly working, if you want more my suggestion is work on the quartering a bit and the commands. If you can trap pigeons then do so, dizzy them and plant them in situations that jake can use his nose but also can use what your training.

All in all he's doing great for 5 months and no formal training, should be a great pup for a long time.

if you feel hes solid enough to start training and collar conditioning go for it but at that age go slow and easy and let Jakes progress set the pace, if he starts to struggle back off and go back to what he knows to reinforce his confidence.

It looks good and sounds good, go with your gut....

I'm afraid to ask this, because I'm afraid I know the answer....but what is 'collar conditioning'?

Its where a dog knows a correction when it gets burned by an e collar.
Its ugly at first but a low setting and say the dog knows to turn and sit on a single whistle blast and doesn't. Whistle,knick. He gets the idea he was/is supposed to turn and sit.
It reinforces commands.
A form of disciple with out yelling or physical abuse.

Ingwe,

Please expand on your thoughts as you obviously have an opinion and experience. That is exactly what I'm looking for.

Past experience with other hard running dogs has been that a collar, when used correctly, is a tool to keep a dog within acceptable limits. I want this dog to be a big runner but I admit I don't know how to put a "governor valve" on at long range.

What say ye?

Thanks,

Scott

If used correctly and wisely e-collars work. On the other hand, having had three Eng Setters, not the breed to use it on in my opinion. Found out early with my first they are the one dog you must have patience and ability to do dog logic to win over and follow commands.

Ended up with three at one time, and they knew my displeasure and their names quite well in short order - dxxn, dxxnmit and Gawddxxnmit. I really miss those dogs.

Just not an E-collar fan, but I know if used correctly they can be effective to stop big runners. I also know a vibrate or tone collar can do the same thing. As a previous poster said, setters can be kind of soft...I much prefer training any dog, hard or soft by using honey and not vinegar on the flies...
I will qualify this by saying I am NOT a gun dog trainer..I train other stuff but have found even with big, hard dogs if they are raised, socialized and trained properly when young ( real young...) the use of aversives is usually counter productive. JMHO

Scott I'm also seeing by your pics a beautiful happy healthy little dog loving what he is doing. Nurture that, instead of trying to fix problems that have yet to show up. Work on your basic obedience and make it fun. If the dog loves coming to you when called, most of your battle is averted.

THAT is the real basic of a gun dog, to return. Reward every time he does. Yep, you have the perfect setter. Not sure if you did this on purpose, but the black around the eyes is desirable, white can cause eye problems later in life.

Also keep in mind, setters are far ranging, it is their nature. Took me a while to realize while mine might want to travel to KS, my favorite would always keep me in sight. When/if all else failed, all I had to do was go to the truck and open the door, never took longer then five minutes for her to be on the seat.

ETA- My first was a female, took me just one day to learn she was the epitome of a female trait - it's not what you said, it's how you said it. That sums up a setter.

You would be absolutely crazy to not carefully consider Ingwe's recommendations. He knows a thing or two about dog training to say the least!

However, pay no attention to his fashion advice, particularly if he suggests you start wearing leopard thong underwear!

John

Thank you all for the kind words as well as your thoughts. I really appreciate it.

I readily admit that I am a little uncertain about training these dogs. It's my nature to think that if something doesn't work as planned, I assume that I am doing something wrong. The variables of a dogs personality are hard to compute with "success". I can wrap my mind around the principle with my kids. But dogs are supposed to be predictable. You guys will probably find that amusing.

Help me with this one in particular because I worry about it (thus the collar idea). We're out on a big run. Doesn't matter if we are hunting or just playing. Normally he stays close depending on the cover. Checks in often. Excited to be with us. Next thing you know he's caught scent, or sighted something and off he goes. Hell bent for leather and I don't have a cord on him. Even if I did I couldn't catch him. No amount of calling, whistling, "hupping", or begging will turn him. I head off after him and sometimes he'll be gone for a quite a while. The roads worry me the most. Luckily most people drive slowly around here.

Without a collar how can I break that concentration? The desire to return is trumped by puppyish enthusiasm. What kinds of things would you be doing in particular?

Thanks all,

Scott

Sage grouse this fall.



Saw a few rattlers. Better get Garrett up off the ground. He loved it.

Your concern is a real one, and the E-collar may be the only answer ultimately.Would also come in handy to snake break the dog if you are in rattler country ( and it appears you are...) But you hit on one thing most folks don't, but we teach it as "Dogma"...If the dog isn't 'getting it'...whatever 'it' may be, then YOU are doing something wrong...
Gotta drop back and punt with a concept the dog does understand.

If you ultimately go with a collar, get one with a 'tone' on it too, and completely dissassociate yourself from the collar ( meaning don't yell at the dog, then shock him...) Give him maybe a little comeback whistle, then a tone...then...
I also reccomend ( as do some manufacturers) that you try the collar on yourself first to get the setting right.I keep one in my office for my students to try- not their dogs, just themselves....so they will know what it feels like.

My oldest setter would do the same, take off on a fast quest so I bought an e-collar. Tried it on me and figured slightly below mid level would get her attention. Ended up, when she got an idea in her head even the top level wouldn't phase her.

Thinking it was not working at the higher levels, tried it on myself and found she was just determined and I was a wuss. I put it away after that and learned to accept the occasional long run and her being renamed dxxmmit.

I'd let him run...up to a point, but if he won't respond and his safety is an issue, I'd whistle break him with an e-collar. That said, I respect ingwe's opinion, but running in the wide open spaces before your pup is reliable is a different deal.

Great pics!
Personally I would not get a collar yet. A pointing dog makes no mistakes his first year, he just learns how much fun the rest of his life will be. The second season is where it becomes hunting for the gun.
Yardwork overlayed with whistle will get you pretty far, if not all the way. Every training session should include some here or come training, with a whistle. Soon he will turn at the first sound, and come wagging when whistled in.
Then next year when he starts blowing off the whistle, think about the collar.
The first year is all for the pup. He will give you all the rest if you give him the first one.
Congrats on both your young hunters! A 5 month old that points and retrieves is the stuff legends are made of.

All of my dogs have always been collar conditioned at the lowest level that got their attention and always wear them hunting as "back up". With steady consistent training they are rarely used

Very nice. Not many things in this world better than a young boy and his Dog. Enjoy the places they take you.