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#7054460 - 11/08/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: stantdm]  
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jt402 Offline
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Tweny or so years ago, I was at a gun shop when a guy traded two Like new Zeiss 4X for 3-9, or somewhere in that range. They were like new, mounted but never hunted. I bought both. I foolishly let one of them go to seal the deal on a rifle that I wanted to move. The one I still have is on a small ring Browning Safari .308. I would like to run into another half dozen at the deal I got on those two. I still use lots of vntage 3X and 4X scopes from Burris, Weaver, Leupold, and Lyman. Yes, there are scopes made now that are more refined than some of them, but I just aim the rifles with them. I use something else to look at the planets. jack


"Do not blame Caesar, blame the people...who have...rejoiced in their loss of freedom....Blame the people who hail him when he speaks of the 'new, wonderful, good, society'...to mean ,..living fatly at the expense of the industrious." Cicero
CMG 300 BP

#7058798 - 11/09/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: jt402]  
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Czech_Made Offline
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Czech_Made  Offline
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Virginia
And all the BDC from Nikon, to find just simple cross is next to impossible.


The brain is a wonderful organ. It starts the moment you get up and doesn't stop untill you get into the office.
#7059350 - 11/09/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: Czech_Made]  
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sharps4590 Offline
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Missouri
I'm in the same camp although all my hunting rifles, save one, are mounted with either open sights or iron sights. But I admit I am such a throwback that the thought of one of those huge objective, variable, lighted crosshair, rangefinding scopes is anathama to me.

Retailers have to stock what sells and manufacturers make what sells. Profit is not an option if one is to stay in business. I do believe that a lot of big scope craze is fostered, as has been stated already, by the belief that equipment can make up for ability and knowledge. Such has never ben the case nor will it ever be. All the high tech stuff available today mostly, not always, allows one to wound or miss at greater ranges. High tech equipment and super camo clothing does not a hunter make.

It's ironic that I would see this thread today as I was thinking this very thing this morning.


NRA Benefactor 2008

In general the art of government consists of taking as much money as possible from one class of citizens to give it to another class of citizens. Voltaire'

There is no right way to do a wrong thing
#7060152 - 11/09/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: sharps4590]  
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derby_dude Offline
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Montana, Lewis and Clark Count...
I have to agree on the scopes and people buying the last fad.

I have found that some of the big bell scopes don't matter with age and than throw in cataracts and it really doesn't matter. One can't use all the light anyway and sometimes it's to much light for old eyes.


Don't vote knothead, it only encourages them. Anonymous

"Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups." Anonymous

"Self-reliance, free thinking, and wealth is anathema to both the power of the State and the Church." Derby Dude


#7060271 - 11/09/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: derby_dude]  
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littlecmonkey Offline
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Well to be honest, I didn't think my little grumble would turn into comments for three pages. Obviously, like those gunmakers that waged there WAS a market out there for single shots and were correct; perhaps some scope manufacturers should take a like stance.

Nice to know I was not the only one.

Alpha

#7060589 - 11/09/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: littlecmonkey]  
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timbo762 Offline
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Lake Havasu, AZ
Maybe Leupold (who already offers too many models) will listen to the "public" and stick there toe in the water again. A number of years ago and with much fanfare in the press, they came out with the "Alaskan" series of fixed power scopes. Three fixed power models in 2.5x, 4x, and 6x. All were blued with 7/8" tubes and moderately sized objectives on the 4x and 6x. Great looks, nice glass, and universally loved buy gun writers of the era. A return to sanity in hunting scopes. Winchester had reintroduced the Model 70 Super Grade with CRF and I bought one in 30-06. I mounted one of the new Leopold Alaskan scopes on it and it was like stepping back in time. Finally a scope that looked as if it really belonged on a hunting rifle. Leupold's reward for this bold move backwards was the worst sales flop in their history and soon they were available at close out prices. Well being an "old hand", I knew that once discontinued they would reach "exalted" status with the shooting public and their value would sky rocket. So I bought a few, held them a year, and tripled my money. Maybe if enough of you badger Leupold, they'll take another chance on something everybody wants but hardly any buys. That is however, until it's discontinued. BTW, I saw one of those Alaskans go for almost $500.00 awhile back.


Rich or poor, it pays to have money.
#7060853 - 11/09/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: timbo762]  
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Grasshopper Offline
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Grasshopper  Offline
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Middle of the "Mitten"
Like a previous poster stated, Manufacturers make what sells. It seems todays hunters are not really hunters.... But success oriented. IOW, If they go on a hunt, they want to be successful, and if they are successful, they want bragging rights of the biggest possible rack. Thus: If they can buy an advantage, they will. I knew a hunter once, who took a trip to Wy and shot a Mulie buck that ran down in gully... He went down and found the deer easily enough, but couldn't figure a way to get it out... So: he just cut off the head and brought it back to MI. (I guess you know, I told him what I thought of him...)

Another acquaintance just returned from a Co. Elk hunt. He said he shot a cow with a .30/378 Wby. (At about 70 yds, no less...) But he couldn't find it, and even couldn't find any blood... frown If he had been hunting with a .30/06 and a fixed 4x scope, he'd likely have brought meat home. But I'd guess he thinks he's a lot better shot than he actually is...

I have many scopes. Many of them are fixed power. Some are variables. Most are Leupold and most were purchased used. I can only think of 1 or 2 deer I have taken with a variable scope. Any of my variable scopes get turned up to the highest power for load work-up and sighting in. Once I'm done with that, they get turned down to 5x or 6x and left there... Every deer I've shot with a varible scope has been set at 6x... Why? Because I'm an old target shooter and I like the clarity and target acquistion. Last year I took two bucks... A trophy 10 pt'er with a 6x Leupold on a Ruger #1, and a 7 pt with a 9x57 Mauser and a receiver sight. I've been hunting since I was 18 yrs old, and I'm 61, now. That is the 1st game animal I've ever taken with iron sights... I'm more proud of that buck than any I've ever taken before. (Including the one who will soon grace the wall of my den!)

It seems in this day of multitasking, hunters merely want to go out see a buck; twiddle with the adjustments and take a pot-shot... At whatever range the target presents itself. (And, of course, hit the target...) The idea that one could actually hunt for subsistence, is beyond their comprehension. frown

They just want to WIN! And then move on to the next thing... And chalk up another win. The score is the only thing that's important... frown

And we wonder why our numbers are dwindling...

How I take a game animal is far more important to me than IF I get one at all... Perhaps that is merely part of the wisdom of age... But I do know it's something that is very hard to convey to much of the younger generation...

I'm stepping down from the soapbox now... blush

GH


"There are things that are known and things that are unknown... In between are the doors!"

“I have no special talents. I am only passionately curious.” - Einstein

#7061310 - 11/10/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: littlecmonkey]  
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Swampman700 Offline
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There's no need for fixed power scopes or anything other than a duplex reticle. These are the good old days.


1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
#7061332 - 11/10/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: Swampman700]  
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jimmyp Offline
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jimmyp  Offline
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Southern Urth


#7061462 - 11/10/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: jimmyp]  
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1B Offline
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1B  Offline
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Reston, VA, USA
And one scope type might satsfy your needs but it will not fit all occasions.

Duplexes are Ok for average use but give way to special reticles in dim light. German 4as are much more useful then and, hell, they even had posts and crosshairs in the bad old days. Illuminatred reticles -- Trijicon and others -- also have their place.

The scope makers who ignore the demand for fixed power and low light glass just concede that market to the few who have offerings --however imperfect.

1B

Bravo

#7061875 - 11/10/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: 1B]  
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gnoahhh Offline
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gnoahhh  Offline
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Annapolis, Md.
I own but two scopes, an old refurbished Weaver K2.5 and Lyman Alaskan 2X. They both live in G&H QD side mounts and are rotated around a few Mauser sporters. For the most part they stay in their leather carrying tubes when afield as I deem them backups to the receiver sights. If one learns how to maximize the efficiency of their equipment there is no need to abandon the 'old' methods, and also no need to follow the herd of 'high tech is better tech' ill informed scope purchasers. For my sighting purposes I follow the 'KISS' principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid).


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
#7062702 - 11/10/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: gnoahhh]  
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Swampman700 Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
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You're scopes are horrible compared to modern scopes. I've tried both of them.


1st Special Operations Wing 1975-1983
919th Special Operations Wing 1983-1985 1993-1994

"Manus haec inimica tyrannis / Ense petit placidam sub libertate quietem" ~Algernon Sidney~
#7063277 - 11/10/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: gnoahhh]  
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timbo762 Offline
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timbo762  Offline
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Lake Havasu, AZ
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
I own but two scopes, an old refurbished Weaver K2.5 and Lyman Alaskan 2X. They both live in G&H QD side mounts and are rotated around a few Mauser sporters. For the most part they stay in their leather carrying tubes when afield as I deem them backups to the receiver sights. If one learns how to maximize the efficiency of their equipment there is no need to abandon the 'old' methods, and also no need to follow the herd of 'high tech is better tech' ill informed scope purchasers. For my sighting purposes I follow the 'KISS' principle (Keep It Simple, Stupid).
This guy is a REAL HUNTER !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by timbo762; 11/10/12.

Rich or poor, it pays to have money.
#7063667 - 11/10/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: timbo762]  
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keith Offline
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keith  Offline
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I like using an out house vs an indoor toilet also.

#7064221 - 11/11/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: keith]  
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littlecmonkey Offline
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littlecmonkey  Offline
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Posts: 647
Amen Brother!

Here is a picture of the camp outhouse. It sits a bit high for several reasons: Keep the rodents out (metal on lower side is to keep porcupines from chewing), and to let odor waft away leaving the natural scent of pine needles flowing through the window, which overlooks my pond. Great place to contemplate.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

#7064450 - 11/11/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: littlecmonkey]  
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catnthehat Offline
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catnthehat  Offline
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Alberta
I use fixed 4's or 6's on most of my huntign rifles , except for my Brwoing 1885 thata is chammbered in 6.5WSM- that one has an 8-32X, 34mm tubed IOR on it , for long range shooting.
The rest of my single shots are hunting rifles that are equipped with either express sights or receiver sights, and the scopes are in QD mounts.
hardly use them, have found no need for one with a 200 yard or closer shot uisng irons.
Cat


scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
#7105956 - 11/23/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: catnthehat]  
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John_Boy Offline
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John_Boy  Offline
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Henderson, Texas
I prefer the fixed 4x & 6x scopes.
I've had fixed 12x & 24x on my target / varmint rifles.
I'm down to 3 variables, all 3-9x.
They will be gone one day, replaced by fixed power scopes, as soon as I can find someone to trade with.
The rifles that don't have scopes will have apeture sights.

Last edited by John_Boy; 11/23/12.

Acts 5:42 "And everyday, in the church and from house to house, they did not cease teaching and preaching Jesus as the Christ."
#7113811 - 11/26/12 Re: What's wrong with today's scope manufacturers? [Re: John_Boy]  
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Clarkm Offline
Campfire Guide
Clarkm  Offline
Campfire Guide

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Posts: 3,147
WA rain forest
An old 2x7 Leupold shook apart inside from being on a home made cantilever scope mount.

Leupold sent me a new VX1 2x7 variable scope, but the power ring was very hard to turn, especially when cold.
I put a Stoney Point elevation turret on it.
In 2008 I shot 4 deer between 400 and 500 yards with the scope left on 2X.
In 2009 I shot 5 deer between 400 and 500 yards with the scope left on 7X.

In 2010 I killed 3 deer with a vari-x-iii 1.75x6.5 between 50 and 400 yards.
I got them all on 6.5X.
I put a Stoney Point elevation turret on it.

In 2012 I shot 4 deer with an old Vari-X ii 2x7.
I put a Stoney Point elevation turret on it.
The deer at 300 and 400 yards were on 7X.
The deer at 50 and 100 yards were on 2X.

Scopes I am considering getting for being:
cheap
light
clear
reliable
elevation turret adjustable for range

Leupold 3-9x33 Mark AR Rimfire E.F.R. Riflescope $439.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-3-9x33-Mark-AR-Rimfire-EFR-Riflescope-P50860.aspx

Leupold 2-7x33 VX-2 Riflescope $349.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-2-7x33-VX-2-Riflescope-P51794.aspx

Leupold 2-12x42 VX-6 30mm Riflescope $899.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-2-12x42-VX-6-30mm-Riflescope-P49437.aspx

Leupold 4-12x40 VX-2 Riflescope $499.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-4-12x40-VX-2-Riflescope-P51811.aspx

Leupold 3.5-10x40 VX-3 Riflescope $529.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-35-10x40-VX-3-Riflescope-P12651.aspx

Leupold 4.5-14x40 VX-3 30mm Riflescope $729.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-45-14x40-VX-3-30mm-Riflescope-P51787.aspx


Leupold 4.5-14x40 VX-3 Riflescope $649.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-45-14x40-VX-3-Riflescope-P51786.aspx


Leupold 2-12x42 VX-6 30mm Riflescope $899.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-2-12x42-VX-6-30mm-Riflescope-P49437.aspx


Leupold 3-18x44 VX-6 30mm Riflescope $1,099.95
http://swfa.com/Leupold-3-18x44-VX-6-30mm-Riflescope-P52966.aspx

Sightron 3.5-10x44 SIII 30mm Riflescope $1,051.95
http://swfa.com/Sightron-35-10x44-SIII-30mm-Riflescope-P48417.aspx


There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
The man who makes no mistakes does not usually make anything.-- Edward John Phelps
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