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#7034762 - 11/02/12 Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30  
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RickinTN Offline
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Anyone have any experience with these bullets? I'm looking for a plinking load for 30-30's between 1000 and 1300 fps. They are sized to .311, so I'm hoping they may work in my Marlin Micro-groove barrels.Anyone tried them?
Thanks,
Rick

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#7052374 - 11/07/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: RickinTN]  
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res45 Offline
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I would think they would work fine for plinking,plenty large enough at.311 to fill the micro-groove and hard enough basically Lyman #2 alloy to give some good grip without skidding on those shallow lands and grooves,they could have a lower BHN of 12 or 13 and still work just fine for plinking.

Not sure how the bevel base will affect anything maybe not at all I shoot my 170 gr. home cast gas check bullets with the gas check left off at 1250+ fps. with no issues so it's possibly a moot point.

Here is another option basically the same bullet that you can apply a GC to later if you like using a Lee .311 sizer if you want to push the bullet a little faster for large game hunting purposes or you can shoot as is for plinker small game loads,there about $8 per 100 cheaper but you have to buy 500. http://www.laser-cast.com/30Cal.html

I'm guessing you aware of the different loading practices for cast bullets over jacketed bullet?

Last edited by res45; 11/07/12.

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#7055418 - 11/08/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: res45]  
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Thanks for your response and information. I have been using a 158gr gas checked bullet in my Ballard rifled Marlins with good results (about an inch @ 50yds with tang sight and old eyes). These bullets are sized .309 and my supplier can't size them any larger. I've used several powders and probably will continue to experiment but I think I've settled on Trail Boss for my primary plinking powder in the 30-30.
Unless I missed something the bullets seem to be priced similar, about $60/500, although Oregon Trail does include shipping. I've been thinking about gearing up for casting but really don't have the time. I guess a Lee sizer to apply gas checks would be a good place to start with equipment.
I will ask...Do you have any experience with similar alloys on Whitetail deer? I've wondered if Lyman #2 or similar would give any expansion with muzzle velocities in the 1600 to 1800 fps range?
I'll probably order some of the Oregon Trail bullets to try as well. In addition to a "fleet" of Marlins I have an '06 and 308 that I enjoy "plinking" loads in. I'm sure they would at least work in someting I have if not all.
Thanks again for your help,
Rick

PS Do you have a preference between the Oregon Trail 165 or 170?
Thanks

Last edited by RickinTN; 11/08/12.
#7055772 - 11/08/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: RickinTN]  
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MV in the 1600fps range is a little on the low side for reliable expansion with Lyman #2 alloy, IMO. You certainly wouldn't want to go any slower. Also IMO, cast bullets for deer in the .30/30 ought to be a little heavier, since elastic limits of a soft alloy (necessary for dramatic expansion) gets iffy beyond 2000fps- doable in the .30/30 with 180 gr. cast bullets, and which puts you into the range of factory energies, a trick not possible with soft 160 grain bullets. My cast loads for both the .30/30 and .303 Savage (virtually identical) call for a 190 grain flat nosed bullet cast of wheel weights + soft lead and a smidgeon of tin (hardness of 10-12bhn- softer than #2 alloy), driven at 1900fps out of carbine barrels. That load has accounted for some deer, that died as if hit by factory jacketed loads, ie: either DRT or a hop-skip-and-a-jump death, depending on bullet placement.

Unfortunately I know of no commercial casters who provide a heavy soft flat nosed bullet such as that. If one wishes to pursue maximum performance on deer with cast bullets, one may be advised to start casting his own.

Another avenue to explore is hollow pointing to boost performance at slower velocities, but I'll confess to never having gone that route. I do know that again, hardness comes into play- hard can lead to shattering of the nose and no expansion. (Which might be ok, who knows?)

Having actually killed deer with slow moving relatively hard cast bullets in my mis-informed youth, I'm here to tell you they died a slow tough death. The one that really taught me my lesson took 3 shots in the bread basket, and that bullet was a 180gr. RN, the exact alloy is lost to memory but it did include linotype and was very hard, at very modest velocity out of a .30/06. I do remember the powder charge- 18gr. SR-4759. After that I wised up and started casting hunting bullets as soft as I could get away with and not cause leading in the bore, at the velocity level I deemed necessary.


Last edited by gnoahhh; 11/08/12.

"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
#7061762 - 11/10/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: gnoahhh]  
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I'd say your projectile and velocity will do just fine on deer.
Personally if you want expansion, aim for bone. Line up the heart with bone either on the near side or the far side and you will have your venison.

If you have a meplat on the bullet it will do better I suspect than a round nose.

You may want to keep those for plinking and investigate another bullet for hunting. Carolina Cast Bullets may be able to help, I'd contact him and talk to Jerry.


Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
#7066968 - 11/11/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: blammer]  
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RickinTN Offline
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Thanks guys for all the input. I've ordered and have the 165 PB from Hunter's supply @.311 and the 170 .310 from Oregon trail. I've installed gas checks on those with a Lee .311 sizer. Both bullets were already lubed. I hope to try them this week. I'm looking forward to it.
I do have another question...I'm getting slivers of gas checks in the lube on some of my bullets. These are Hornady checks. I think someone told me all of the gas checks are made by one company? So brand shouldn't matter. Is this normal?
Thanks,
Rick

#7067264 - 11/12/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: RickinTN]  
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Rocky Raab has a good plinking load for 30 cal cast bullets (and jacketed bullets). I use it for 30-30, 308, 30-06 and 8X57 too. It's not a hunting load (for deer) but certainly for anything smaller. I don't want to steal his thunder but he has it on his site as the "Universal 30 cal load" (or something like that).

I've gotten to where I don't rely on my memory for very much any more but I use a load of IMR4895 (can't recall the charge) and a 150 FPGC bullet (Lee Mold) for a deer round in 30-30. I have killed several deer with it and have shot them high in the shoulder where the spine dips down behind the shoulder blades. It makes a little hole and knocks them down right now.

Back in the day all anybody had was cast bullets and a hole in the heart and tracking skills got meat on the table.

Alan


Food is at the core of Hunting and Fishing - Rebecca Gray

#7067486 - 11/12/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: Alan_R_McDaniel_Jr]  
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take some light case lube and rub it on your fingers and a touch on the GC before you run it through the Lee sizer. It's going through it rough and shaving just a tad, you feel a grind when it gets crimped on? you need some lube in the die.

as for GC's, yes brand doesn't matter, Horn or Lyman. (I sell Gator checks, far cheaper BTW. PM me if interested)

the shavings won't hurt anything, they just look bad.

Somehow you need some lube in that sizing die for each of the projectiles.

Last edited by blammer; 11/12/12.

Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
#7067580 - 11/12/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: blammer]  
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RickinTN Offline
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yes, a small grind when it's going through the sizer. I use Imperial sizing die wax, so I'll apply a little next time.
Thanks all,

Rick

#7069491 - 11/12/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: RickinTN]  
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blammer Offline
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Rick, I have some relatives in McMinneville, where about are you in Middle TN?


Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
#7070045 - 11/12/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: blammer]  
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RickinTN Offline
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A slight rub with Imperial did the trick on the gas checks shaving. Still have a little "chatter" but I think that's probably normal. I live in Franklin, just south of Nashville, and probably about an hour from your folks. Thanks Blammer!

I think I remember Gnoahhh reccomending a 190 gr bullet at about a BHN of 12 or so, and about 1,900 FPS. for hunting Whitetail? Is there a certain mould which you favor?

One more question for you all here. It seems most flat point bullets are designed for the 30-30. Is it normal to have a lube groove exposed when loading for the '06? To get anywhere near the lands in the '06 I'm working with this is the case. Is there a good flatpoint mould designed more for the '06 case?
Thanks,
Rick

#7070315 - 11/12/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: RickinTN]  
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APDDSN0864 Offline
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Take a look at these two;

RCBS 150GR FP LINK

RCBS 180GR FP LINK

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell

#7071054 - 11/13/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: APDDSN0864]  
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Leaving a lube groove exposed won't hurt a thing, except maybe picking up some grit along the way- but honestly, has that ever been a problem for anybody?

My favorite flat nosed bullet is a 190 grain with a very wide meplat of .2", from out of an old Saeco custom mould that dates back over 30 years to when I was involved in cast bullet matches. Unfortunately they never catalog it. It was designed for a perfect fit in a specific .30/30 match barrel neck/throat, and serendipitously has been almost magical in every .30/30 and .303 Savage I've used it in since then, and a lot of other .30 calibers.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
#7071751 - 11/13/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: gnoahhh]  
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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Leaving a lube groove exposed won't hurt a thing, except maybe picking up some grit along the way- but honestly, has that ever been a problem for anybody?

My favorite flat nosed bullet is a 190 grain with a very wide meplat of .2", from out of an old Saeco custom mould that dates back over 30 years to when I was involved in cast bullet matches. Unfortunately they never catalog it. It was designed for a perfect fit in a specific .30/30 match barrel neck/throat, and serendipitously has been almost magical in every .30/30 and .303 Savage I've used it in since then, and a lot of other .30 calibers.


Could you post a picture of one of those bullets? I am looking for a cast bullet for my .34-40 Krag and .30-30 Win. and I like wide meplats! grin

I'm betting one of the custom mould manufacturers could duplicate that.

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell

#7074579 - 11/14/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: APDDSN0864]  
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I was hoping nobody would ask to see it! I dropped my camera which bollixed up the auto focus, and I'm a troglodyte who still uses an old clam shell cell phone from back when camera features were an option (which I didn't buy into then). I'll see what I can do to make it happen for you.

Factors influencing expansion of cast lead bullets: hardness, nose design (flat nose good, spitzers not so good, round nose ok, hollow points trump all), and velocity. Whole books could be written on the nuances/theories/practicalities of bullet design and delivery to the target.


"You can lead a man to logic, but you cannot make him think." Joe Harz
#7075137 - 11/14/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: gnoahhh]  
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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Whole books could be written on the nuances/theories/practicalities of bullet design and delivery to the target.


And HAVE been! grin

Just when you get a chance. I have a few other projects in the fire right now and if I start another one I'll never finish any of them. laugh

Ed


"Not in an open forum, where truth has less value than opinions, where all opinions are equally welcome regardless of their origins, rationale, inanity, or truth, where opinions are neither of equal value nor decisive." Ken Howell

#7075527 - 11/14/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: APDDSN0864]  
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this is a good flat point for you , the 311041

I like this one, the 311284
[Linked Image]

oh wait, here's a pic of the bullet

It's the projectile in on the top
(this is with the 308 in my AR10 but I use my 311284 in the 30-06)
[Linked Image]


Last edited by blammer; 11/14/12.

Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
#7075547 - 11/14/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: blammer]  
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Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
#7075553 - 11/14/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: blammer]  
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this lovern style will let you lube any number of grooves you need, has a good meplat on it, and is enough wt to get the job done easy. PLUS it has the advantage of being a will known shooter in several types of rifles.


Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
#7076303 - 11/14/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: blammer]  
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res45 Offline
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blammer,have you shot the 314466 bullet in the Mosin,I'm currently using the Lee 160 gr.TL GC bullet I normally shoot in my SKS rifles in my Mosin and accuracy is excellent but I want a bullet for the Mosin that has a flatter nose on it for hunting purposes.

My Lee 170 gr. 30-30 bullet.
[Linked Image]

Last edited by res45; 11/14/12.

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#7077302 - 11/15/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: res45]  
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res45, sorry I have not shot the 311466 in a Mosin as I don't have a Mosin anymore. I do shoot it in my 30-06 and it's a good bullet.

Can you get your Lee bullet pictured big enough for your Mosin? That would be a dandy.

What dia do you need for your Mosin?

What alloy are you using on the 314466?
What velocity are you shooting them?

You may already have a good bullet.

Last edited by blammer; 11/15/12.

Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
#7078598 - 11/15/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: blammer]  
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res45 Offline
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Quote
Can you get your Lee bullet pictured big enough for your Mosin? That would be a dandy.


The Lee .309 170 gr. bullet drops from the mold close to .311 I just use a .311 sizer to put the gas checks on when there needed. I tried to beagle the mold a couple years ago to fatten it up for the Mosin but the bullet just came out to out of round with some pretty bad fins to be useful without a lot of work getting them off.

Quote
What dia do you need for your Mosin?


My Mosin has a .312 groove bore,the Lee 160 gr. TL GC bullet drops from the mold a .313.5" I apply a gas check with a .314 push through sizer and it works fine in both my SKS rifle and the Mosin. The fattest bullet that I can chamber in the Mosin is a .314" bullet using Prvi and Win. brass anything larger want chamber without turning the case neck down.

In the Lee 170 gr.FN bullet I use plain old WW alloy 7.0 grs. Red Dot two coats of Alox/JPW lube for general purpose plinking and leave the GC off. I shoot those at around 1200+ fps.

For the BG load I use a 30:1 Lead/Tin alloy,pop the GC on and ranch dip the bullets in Alox/JPW lube after there dry I run them back through the sizer to clean them up. I settled on a load of H-335 that gets me up to around 2K fps.

The NOE .314466 looks like a good bullet for my Mosin I also have a .313" sizer I got on closeout from Ranch Dog for $8 that I can use on that bullet as well if the .314 fits to tightly in the chamber. Guess I'm going to have to pull the trigger on that mold and just get it and see how it does.

Quote
What velocity are you shooting them?


Currently using the Lee 160 gr. TL GC bullet I getting between 1600 & 1700 fps. in my Russian M44 using 16.0 grs. of Alliant 2400 I haven't really tried to push it any faster because it shoots so accurately. I figure if I can get a good FN bullet to shoot as well as the RN design I'll be good to go. I can cover 5 shot with a quarter at 50 yrd. on a regular basis using the Lee bullet.


Linux Mint 18.2 Cinnamon 64 Bit
#7078818 - 11/15/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: res45]  
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blammer Offline
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Using the WW alloy you have and the velocity of 1600-1700 (guessed, no chrono?) you should do just fine for deer hunting with that. I'd aim for bone, line the heart/lungs up with a near side or off side shoulder and pull the trigger. You'll have your venison.
Personally I'd stay 100yds or closer and you'll do fine.

My 311284 was probably moving around 1700fps when it hit the deer at 160yds. Hit a rib going and coming and the heart in the middle. She ran 100yds and piled up. Not a hard tracking job either. :)No bullet recovery.


Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
#7078827 - 11/15/12 Re: Hunter's Supply 165gr 30-30 [Re: blammer]  
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You can always take your undersized lubed bullets and squash them with a flat nosed punch inside the sizing die to fatten them up. smile

May want to try that, you'll get a FN bullet and it'll be larger. smile it's been done before.


Whatever you are willing to put up with, is exactly what you will have.

When your ship comes in. ... make sure you are willing to unload it.
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