I am young, but I have plenty of shooting experience, and my dad has agreed that it is time for my first rifle. I am looking for a caliber that can take just about anything in North America and Canada with the exception of bear. I am a big fan of the .300 saum, but it's lack of availability is a huge negative factor, but I do reload quite a bit, so I can keep that in check. But... The .300 Ultra Mag. has a bit more FPS and knockdown, but availability isn't good. My least favorite, the. 300 Win. Mag. is the most available by far, and it does offer decent knockdown, but I believe it's over rated and lacks individuality, unlike the other two rounds. I need some experienced minds to help me out. Feel free to correct any of my errors and put in your input, it would be much appreciated.
I used to have a 300 SAUM and sold it because I dont reload I bought a 300 RUM and use the Federal 180 grain trophy tips with great results but alot of people said because I dont reload I should have got a 300 Win mag but I dont have any regrets also with the 300 RUM you can download it down to 30-06 or load it full for the 300 RUM
That actually seem like a good idea, that's one of the rounds I have started looking into, but i'm not an AR guy believe it or not, bolt actions are my favorite by far, but maybe I can look into the WSM more, because I don't want to regret not getting a certain caliber, and the rifles i'm looking into are very high quality hunting rifles, so it's not easy to have multiple for different calibers.
I used to have a 300 SAUM and sold it because I dont reload I bought a 300 RUM and use the Federal 108 grain trophy tips with great results but alot of people said because I dont reload I should have got a 300 Win mag but I dont have any regrets also with the 300 RUM you can download it down to 30-06 or load it full for the 300 RUM
Isn't a 108 grain bullet small for any 30 cal. I love the 300SAUM. I have about 400 rounds of brass and reload. I do not shoot over 300 yds., but not because of the caliber.
What brand of rifle do you want and what bullet do you want to shoot? I'm assuming since you're posting in the long range section you want something with a high BC. If runnIng a high bc 30 cal I'd look at the 208 amax or a Berger vld or hybrid. If that's how you're leaning I'd go a 700 long action 300 win mag. I'd leaves you room to play with seating depths and mine ran the 208 amax at 2950 fps. I've had them all and although I don't care for belts the 300 win in a 700 LA just flat shoots, feeds, and is flexible. Or just get a 7 rem for the same reasons.
Just about tried all the 30Cal's, hard to beat the dirty old 300WM ,accuracy that is second to none. Can be shot with or without brake....my Fav with 210VLD's
I'm looking at a Christensen, they price high, but I have heard absolutely nothing but positive feedback from them. Brand of ammo is still something I have to look into once I pick my caliber. And as for the 700, i'm not a fan of them. But the saum is more accueate if i'm not correct.
I have a friend that hunts a lot. By a lot I mean he and his father have hunted every continent and killed almost every game animal on the planet except elephants. They have spent more on taxidermy than 99.9% of the population will ever have. They both hunt with 300 Win Mags. If they need anything bigger they use a 375 H&H.
Last edited by TATELAW; 11/25/12.
Those who must raise their voice to get their point across are generally not intelligent enough to do so in any other way.
Most Christensen's are built on 700 actions or a clone there of. Many of their carbon wrapped barrels are turned down Remington factory barrels and some of their stocks are off of rem 700's too. You can pay a lot of money and end up with what is basically a carbon wrapped 700.
Answer a few more questions like what game at what range, rifle weight, recoil tolerance, and budget.
I'm looking at a Christensen, they price high, but I have heard absolutely nothing but positive feedback from them. Brand of ammo is still something I have to look into once I pick my caliber. And as for the 700, i'm not a fan of them. But the saum is more accueate if i'm not correct.
Not correct.I have 2 700 SAUMS,and 8 or 9 other 700s.They are all accurate,I wouldn't still have them if they weren't.The SAUM differs from other Remington 700s only in the chambering,and the SAUM is not any more accurate per se than any other 700 chambering. Monashee
Well I don't know how you can get a carbon wrapped 700 to come out 5.5 ibs, but in all honesty, I am really considering a GA Precision-non-typical chambered in one of the calibers, but still, A christensen is higher quality than a 700.Also the bolt is fluted and has a circular knob, which in and of itself is important to me, I hate the 700 action and the clinky handle. I am looking at 500 yards most likely, because that is within my ability, my budget is $3000 for the entire setup, I want the rifle to be lower than 9 ibs, and I have never come across a gun too much for me so far, from a box of 30-06 ammo in one visit to 75 .480s back to back, god just gave me a good shoulder.
A Christensen IS a 700... dressed up in carbon and jacked up 3 grand.
Why are you concerned with factory ammunition if you hand-load? Honestly, if you're killing inside 500 yards I would look no further than a .308 and 165 Accubonds or 155 Scenars.
I'd do a lot more research before laying down 3 grand on any rifle.
If you'd like to know what I'd do (being another young guy, that has bought and sold way too many rifles already, and shot a LOT), here's it...
IF you are set on a .30...
Rem 700 Stainless SPS .308 Win McMillan Edge Mountain Rifle Leupold 3.5-10x40 Spend the rest of your money on buying a ton of bullets and powder, and become a surgeon out to 500 yards with it.
I'd hang pics of what a bone-stock 700 7 Remmie does at 500 yards, but that'd be rude.
I have used both the 300 Win mag and the 300 RUM extensively thruout NA. I've taken quite a mixed bag of game with both. If I could only have one I would have to choose the 300 Win. It is incredibly versitle, accuracy is excellent, factory ammo is available everywhere, and with a wide variey of bullets available today if you reload all the better. 163bc
If you'd like to know what I'd do (being another young guy, that has bought and sold way too many rifles already, and shot a LOT), here's it...
IF you are set on a .30...
Rem 700 Stainless SPS .308 Win McMillan Edge Mountain Rifle Leupold 3.5-10x40 Spend the rest of your money on buying a ton of bullets and powder, and become a surgeon out to 500 yards with it.
I'd hang pics of what a bone-stock 700 7 Remmie does at 500 yards, but that'd be rude.
I'd do either what Tanner suggested and or go with a 70EW/300WSM with a McMillan Hunter Edge compact wrapped around it. Or a 270 WSM or a 7 WSM as I'm not sure if the 70EW comes in these rounds.
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
Of those three I would go with the RUM. I have a 300 rum, shooting the 200 grain Nosler accubonds. I would be just fine taking anything in NA. No problem.
**Premium AR500 Steel targets for a great cause!!! Rounds, Squares, IPSC, coyotes, ETC.
It's a myth .30 Mag guys made up..... happens to be the only trump card they have on the 7mm Rem. Mag.....
I agree partly on that, shot placement is 75% of it, but knockdown is the other 25%, and without a doubt not a myth.
Yes it is.
Get a 30/06.
Pardon me for being abrupt with the young fella,but I bet he is no where near as recoil proof as he likes to beleive.Recoil tolerance has almost nothing to do with tough shoulders.
A 300 RUM (like a 300 Weatherby or 300 RUM)is a cartridge for thoroughly seasoned and experienced riflemen with very high round count under their belts,ingrained good shooting skills and innured to recoil through experience;not for kids or other neophytes who don't burn several thousand rounds of centerfire ammo annually and believe in myths like "knockdown power".To believe otherwise is wishful thinking.
"Knockdown power" is a very well placed bullet,and nothing else.
If the OP's heart and mind are set on a 300 magnum today I would get a 300 WSM or 300 Win Mag.They are the most practical, most available and (in the case of the WSM),the easiest to shoot well, which is far more imortant than myths about additional knockdown power.
If you can't get it done with one a 300 WSM or 300Win Mag, you should likely stay home.
Well I don't know how you can get a carbon wrapped 700 to come out 5.5 ibs, but in all honesty, I am really considering a GA Precision-non-typical chambered in one of the calibers, but still, A christensen is higher quality than a 700.Also the bolt is fluted and has a circular knob, which in and of itself is important to me, I hate the 700 action and the clinky handle. I am looking at 500 yards most likely, because that is within my ability, my budget is $3000 for the entire setup, I want the rifle to be lower than 9 ibs, and I have never come across a gun too much for me so far, from a box of 30-06 ammo in one visit to 75 .480s back to back, god just gave me a good shoulder.
A GAP Non-Typical in either .243 with an 8 twist barrel or a .308 would be a whole lot more pleasant to shoot and will handle the great majority of Hunting situations as well as the .300's.
Last edited by hillbillybear; 11/26/12.
Member: Clan of the Turdlike People.
Courage is Fear that has said its Prayers
�If we ever forget that we are one nation under God, then we will be a nation gone under.� Ronald Reagan.
I have to agree with Bob, a 300 RUM is better left to someone with a lot of shooting practice on their shoulder. I have shot many of the various 300's and that RUM DOES have a very noticeable upgrade in the recoil department.
I have a 300 Wby, because I came across a great deal. Before that I had a 300 WSM and it was a great rifle. If you simply must have a 300 Mag, I'd go WSM or Win Mag. In your case though, with bears being excluded, there is absolutely NOTHING wrong with a 270wsm or 7mm Rem Mag either. You'll still get plenty of power for dang near anything you're likely to encounter in NA and you won't take quite the pounding on the shoulder.
If the plan is to lay out 3 grand on a rifle I'd have a real good look at an HS Precision in 300 WSM before you look at the Christensen. I'd be willing to bet on which one you'll choose.
If you want to spend the money, I'd go GAP Non-typical in .260, 7-08, or at most a 7WSM/7RM.
If bang for buck is important, then something similar to Tanner or Dober's suggestion is a good idea. Rem 700 is great to build off of, and Win 70 EW in 7WSM would be great to toss in a McMillan stock and go.
Actually, you know what? Be the real cool kid on the block and start with a real rifle-loony cartridge! Get you a 35 Whelen! Enough power for even bears (in some opinions, not in others) And you'll still have a very capable cartridge that can hold its own on distance, and pack enough to punch to knock anything else over. Plus it has plenty of that "shock power" you are after.
If I knew better and could start over again, that is the way I would go, or possibly 9.3x62 for some extra panache
It's a myth .30 Mag guys made up..... happens to be the only trump card they have on the 7mm Rem. Mag.....
I agree partly on that, shot placement is 75% of it, but knockdown is the other 25%, and without a doubt not a myth.
Yes it is.
Get a 30/06.
Pardon me for being abrupt with the young fella,but I bet he is no where near as recoil proof as he likes to beleive.Recoil tolerance has almost nothing to do with tough shoulders.
A 300 RUM (like a 300 Weatherby or 300 RUM)is a cartridge for thoroughly seasoned and experienced riflemen with very high round count under their belts,ingrained good shooting skills and innured to recoil through experience;not for kids or other neophytes who don't burn several thousand rounds of centerfire ammo annually and believe in myths like "knockdown power".To believe otherwise is wishful thinking.
"Knockdown power" is a very well placed bullet,and nothing else.
If the OP's heart and mind are set on a 300 magnum today I would get a 300 WSM or 300 Win Mag.They are the most practical, most available and (in the case of the WSM),the easiest to shoot well, which is far more imortant than myths about additional knockdown power.
If you can't get it done with one a 300 WSM or 300Win Mag, you should likely stay home.
Bob is spot on in regards to a 300 rum being a tough round to master. Very few people can master a 300 mag and for most that can it takes alot of work.
It's the difference between poking an animal in the shoulder with a 110gr bullet and having it go a long distance, and poking same animal with a 200gr bullet going a high rate of speed and having it drop right there.
Night/Day difference between hitting an animal with a 338rum and a 30-06. I've done it a bunch of times, and the "knockdown" power of the RUM is rather impressive.
I am young, but I have plenty of shooting experience, and my dad has agreed that it is time for my first rifle. I am looking for a caliber that can take just about anything in North America and Canada with the exception of bear. I am a big fan of the .300 saum, but it's lack of availability is a huge negative factor, but I do reload quite a bit, so I can keep that in check. But... The .300 Ultra Mag. has a bit more FPS and knockdown, but availability isn't good. My least favorite, the. 300 Win. Mag. is the most available by far, and it does offer decent knockdown, but I believe it's over rated and lacks individuality, unlike the other two rounds. I need some experienced minds to help me out. Feel free to correct any of my errors and put in your input, it would be much appreciated.
..............That`s interesting!
Setting aside COALs and action lengths and going strictly on ballistic performances alone, the 300 Win Mag equals in every way the 300 SAUM and a little then some as well.
Curiously! How can a 300 Win be over-rated and be the least favorite in your view, when in reality it ballistically equals and then some the 300 SAUM in every way?
Being the most common and most popular 300 mag, the 300 Win may lack individuality to some (if that`s even important at all). But to define it as over-rated where the 300 SAUM is not over-rated??
But if you prefer a shorter actioned rifle, hence your 300 SAUM preference, then that is another matter. But for better availability in a 300 short action, the 300 WSM gets my vote.
Based on ballistic performance alone, and if you are concerned with better availabilities than either the 300 SAUM and 300 RUM, then the 300 Win is an excellent choice.
Did own and reload a 300 Win for 30+ years btw!
But if so-called cartridge "individuality" is of big concern, then the 300 Win based only on that alone I suppose, wouldn`t be the best choice.
You don't need a magnum, a carbon-wrapped barrel, or any form of $3000 rig to shoot 500 yards. Obviously, it's your rifle so make yourself happy, but you really don't need any of that.
A .280, 30-06, .260 Rem, etc. will do everything you need and be much cheaper and easier to shoot in quantity.
You don't need a magnum, a carbon-wrapped barrel, or any form of $3000 rig to shoot 500 yards. Obviously, it's your rifle so make yourself happy, but you really don't need any of that.
A .280, 30-06, .260 Rem, etc. will do everything you need and be much cheaper and easier to shoot in quantity.
I have to agree,I can ring the 500yd gong with any of my 700s from the bench.Calibre ranges from .22-250AI to 8MM Rem Mag.I don't take offhand shots at that distance,I ain't young and I shake like a leaf.In my case my rifles can do it but I can't,and I'm well aware of that fact! Monashee
The OP has been given sound advice from those who read the post. He does seem set on a big ol mag and spending a bunch of money. So let'er rip buddy. If a 308 don't get it done maybe a 300win mag will work better for you.
It's the difference between poking an animal in the shoulder with a 110gr bullet and having it go a long distance, and poking same animal with a 200gr bullet going a high rate of speed and having it drop right there.
Night/Day difference between hitting an animal with a 338rum and a 30-06. I've done it a bunch of times, and the "knockdown" power of the RUM is rather impressive.
Give him 15 or 20, years that is and then he'll come full circle. I had to do it as well..........grin
I learned a ton load from the time I started shaving to the time where hair started to grey and thin.
Dober
Lol....when I was 14 I had to have a big gun like some of the big kids I looked up to. Someone else zeroed the scope and I hunted it. Ya it had pop but didn't notice it killin stuff. Sometimes I missed but a heck I had a big ol gun so I still felt big. Anyway when I graduated high school I bought a newer Leupold scope for it. I shot it 19 times and still didn't have it "zeroed". I went inside took new scope off the 300 and put it on the 243. Went back outside and zeroed it. Ran nothin but till around '07. At 29 my big gun is a 280AI now....lol
The .30-06 with modern 165 - 180 gr bullets will cleanly kill anything from mice to moose, are you just wanting something different? I own and love the crap out of my 300 SAUM, but honestly, it nor the 300 WSM or Win. Mag don't offer much over the 30-06 trajectory-wise other than more kinetic energy, coolness, and more expensive brass. IMO, the next step in significant performance over the 06' is the 300 RUM or 30-378 Weatherby. If you want easy, get a 30-06, if you want a short mag, get the .300 WSM (much easier than SAUM or RCM), if you want a true .300 Mag, go with the .300 Win. Mag or 300 RUM), or H&H if you want extra cool points.
The .30-06 with modern 165 - 180 gr bullets will cleanly kill anything from mice to moose, are you just wanting something different? I own and love the crap out of my 300 SAUM, but honestly, it nor the 300 WSM or Win. Mag don't offer much over the 30-06 trajectory-wise other than more kinetic energy, coolness, and more expensive brass. IMO, the next step in significant performance over the 06' is the 300 RUM or 30-378 Weatherby. If you want easy, get a 30-06, if you want a short mag, get the .300 WSM (much easier than SAUM or RCM), if you want a true .300 Mag, go with the .300 Win. Mag or 300 RUM), or H&H if you want extra cool points.
I would add .308 Norma Mag to the end of the list! Monashee
The .30-06 with modern 165 - 180 gr bullets will cleanly kill anything from mice to moose, are you just wanting something different? I own and love the crap out of my 300 SAUM, but honestly, it nor the 300 WSM or Win. Mag don't offer much over the 30-06 trajectory-wise other than more kinetic energy, coolness, and more expensive brass. IMO, the next step in significant performance over the 06' is the 300 RUM or 30-378 Weatherby. If you want easy, get a 30-06, if you want a short mag, get the .300 WSM (much easier than SAUM or RCM), if you want a true .300 Mag, go with the .300 Win. Mag or 300 RUM), or H&H if you want extra cool points.
I would add .308 Norma Mag to the end of the list! Monashee
It's the difference between poking an animal in the shoulder with a 110gr bullet and having it go a long distance, and poking same animal with a 200gr bullet going a high rate of speed and having it drop right there.
Night/Day difference between hitting an animal with a 338rum and a 30-06. I've done it a bunch of times, and the "knockdown" power of the RUM is rather impressive.
That is a fact.
The term itself is "bad",sloppy,and gives the wrong impression.
Animals are never "knocked down" by bullets, which are "scalpels" and not sledge hammers.If they actually knocked animals down in the sense we think of it, Newton's Laws tells us we could not shoulder fire the weapon.What we see are the effects of large wound channels and greater tissue and bone destruction with a larger and faster cartridge and heavier bullets which land in the right place,ie vital tissue,destroys bones required for them to stand; not knockdown in the sense that a Mack truck knocks down a brick wall,or something similar....
If the "knockdown" theory were correct(it isn't)then we would be able to gut shoot elk, moose, and elephants and they should be,theoretically ....well....knocked down.....even with indifferent bullet placement. People with experience know that simply isn't true and a gut shot with a 300 RUM will get you nothing but a rodeo while a properly placed 7x57 bullet will get you a very dead elk ( or elephant)in short order.You only need to see an elk take a bullet from a 300 or 340 magnum in the guts,and watch him trot off, to know the knockdown stuff is nonsense.
We are definately seeing something occur when an animal is hit properly in the right place,with a bullet from a powerful cartridge....but it sure ain't "knock down" power...
A bullet is not a "scalpel" an arrow with a broadhead is. That is why you seldom see an animal that is double lunged with an arrow get knocked off of its feet.
Go to Africa packing your 223 for cape buffalo and see what the PH says.
Knockdown is when a novice shooter fires a big magnum and ends up on his butt.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
A good brake will chop that recoil down fairly well. Although I don't want to be "that guy" at the range. Now on to the knockdown matter, here's an example; A little girl went hunting at my hunting club last year, she was using a. 223, she shot the deer directly in center mass, missing the heart and lungs greatly, the deer ran a good distance and it was barely found. The exact same shot placement was used later on with a .280, the deer dropped right there. Shot placements is key, I will agree, but knockdown is a factor that creates room for error. A. 223 to the heart kills a whitetail every time, heck, a .22lr can kill a bear if you shoot it in the eye, but who in the world wants to feed their family with a gun that limits their kill possibility? I'm not saying that people should shoot whitetail with a. 338 lapua, but normally comfort starts in the middle, if you feel comfortable shooting something with a. 223 then go for it, but I don't. But all of it is based on shot placement and room for error (also know as knockdown). I am also starting to put my eyes on smaller caliber because of this forum though, I was looking at a .260 but I might as well use a. 308. I don't know why but I have my eyes set on a short mag, but it's hard to decide, if they make a 7mm short mag. I think that would be perfect. Thanks for posting it really got me thinking.
Give him 15 or 20, years that is and then he'll come full circle. I had to do it as well..........grin
That makes no sense. You still put the 7mm Mashburn on a pedestal, yet scoff at a 300 mag?
There's a lot that you don't know, especially about me.
First off, I don't think I've ever put the Mashburn on a pedestal. Now do I know a good round when I see it, yeah I do and that's just part of the reason I like it. I've ran thru 3 barrels chambered for the round, have used it to take several arks full of game so no I don't have any problemo encourging certain people to give it a go. Do I think it's the only round going, no I sure don't. Do I feel it's a better mouse trap than the 300 mags. Ah yes from my experiences with them I do feel that the Mashburn is a better deal for me. Have I ever scoffed at the 300 mags, ah no I don't think so but I do know that I can get the same thing done with the big 7's than I can with the big 30 mags absolutely I do.
You say what I said makes no sense so go ahead and tell me a bit about me. Oh that's right you don't know me, never met me and have never even spoken on the phone with me never shot with me and yet you're willing to say that what I said about coming full circle doesn't make any sense.
I started my elk career with a .270 (and for me the true test of a big game cal is elk, at least on this side of the big pond, I could add the big bruins but hardly anyone ever gets to hunt them so I don't go there...), from the .270 I went to various big 7's, 06's, and on to the 338 WM, spent a lot of time with the .340 (went thru a couple of barrels) as well I spent quite a bit of time with the 375's and various 416's.
I'm a member of the 50/50 club meaning I'm over 50 years old and have been and around the taking of over 50 head of elk, so I have some fairly commited thoughts as to what works and what's needed and what isn't!
This year I carried a .308, a .270, a .260 and a Mashburn a bit while elk hunting. This began to morph quite a few years ago where I started going back to the smaller rounds as I know I can get it done with ease using them and don't need the mega cannons anymmore. From what I've seen over the years this is a pretty darn natural progression.
For me years ago the big 33's, the 375's and the 416's were my big guns. And while I still own a wonderful 375 Wby it rarely gets any time on the field and mainly stays home. While the 7 Mashburn Super has been my main "big rifle". Not that I don't play with this or that.
Bottom line, dogcatcher223, you don't know the first thing about me, or where I've come from and or have done so I really don't give a flock whether what I said makes any sense to you and or not...
So for me yeah I do feel that I've come back to the beginning again
Dober
Last edited by Mark R Dobrenski; 11/26/12.
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
Unfortunately, I don't have anything better to do than argue about this.. (grin)
225gr of lead and copper entering an animal at 2800fps with a semi frangible bullet puts deer on their ass, quickly. BT/DT. My 243ai, 25-06ai, 30-06, 7 Saum, etc don't do it with such... quickness.
All do the job, but I've never pulled the trigger on game with my RUM and wasn't impressed.
I don't know why but I have my eyes set on a short mag, but it's hard to decide, if they make a 7mm short mag. I think that would be perfect. Thanks for posting it really got me thinking.
Caliber aside, with 3k for a long range rifle I'd call Mark Chanlynn for a barrel and have Dave Sullivan in Erie, at West Wind Rifles make me a real gun.
But then again, I consider world class accuracty much "cooler" then a carbon wrapped barrel.
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
A good brake will chop that recoil down fairly well. Although I don't want to be "that guy" at the range. Now on to the knockdown matter, here's an example; A little girl went hunting at my hunting club last year, she was using a. 223, she shot the deer directly in center mass, missing the heart and lungs greatly, the deer ran a good distance and it was barely found. The exact same shot placement was used later on with a .280, the deer dropped right there. Shot placements is key, I will agree, but knockdown is a factor that creates room for error. A. 223 to the heart kills a whitetail every time, heck, a .22lr can kill a bear if you shoot it in the eye, but who in the world wants to feed their family with a gun that limits their kill possibility? I'm not saying that people should shoot whitetail with a. 338 lapua, but normally comfort starts in the middle, if you feel comfortable shooting something with a. 223 then go for it, but I don't. But all of it is based on shot placement and room for error (also know as knockdown). I am also starting to put my eyes on smaller caliber because of this forum though, I was looking at a .260 but I might as well use a. 308. I don't know why but I have my eyes set on a short mag, but it's hard to decide, if they make a 7mm short mag. I think that would be perfect. Thanks for posting it really got me thinking.
Just about everything you've been looking at in 30 cal there is a sister 7mm....7mm WSM, 7mm SAUM, 7mm RUM, and 7mm Rem Mag.
You guys realize that the OP is 14 years old right? Theres nothing in the rational and experience department from us that is gonna trump his need for cool!
Bottom line, dogcatcher223, you don't know the first thing about me,
You are right, the only thing I know about you, is what you have typed on this forum. I never even heard of a Mashburn until I heard you going on and on about it. If you want to make a different impression, then type something different.
............. Now on to the knockdown matter, here's an example; A little girl went hunting at my hunting club last year, she was using a. 223, she shot the deer directly in center mass, missing the heart and lungs greatly, the deer ran a good distance and it was barely found. The exact same shot placement was used later on with a .280, the deer dropped right there. Shot placements is key, I will agree, but knockdown is a factor that creates room for error......
How about the elk that took a 160 gr bullet too far back in the lungs and was not found for 2-3 days....or the black bear that was hit too far back with a 340 Weatherby and led my pal on a merry chase;about as far as the one hit similarly with a 257 Roberts? Not enough "knockdown power" with either one I guess?
or the mule deer hit too far back with a 7 Rem Mag that went about a mile before being recovered.Again...where's that "room for error"....I could go on if you want to play that game....
it would seem the logical thing is to use a 375H&H for mule deer....that would provide more "room for error"....right?
There is no "knockdown power" that reliably floors BG animals;and there is no "room for error" that is compensated for by powerful rifles and sloppy and indifferent marksmanship.There is only good bullet placement.
Give him 15 or 20, years that is and then he'll come full circle. I had to do it as well..........grin
That makes no sense. You still put the 7mm Mashburn on a pedestal, yet scoff at a 300 mag?
There's a lot that you don't know, especially about me.
First off, I don't think I've ever put the Mashburn on a pedestal. Now do I know a good round when I see it, yeah I do and that's just part of the reason I like it. I've ran thru 3 barrels chambered for the round, have used it to take several arks full of game so no I don't have any problemo encourging certain people to give it a go. Do I think it's the only round going, no I sure don't. Do I feel it's a better mouse trap than the 300 mags. Ah yes from my experiences with them I do feel that the Mashburn is a better deal for me. Have I ever scoffed at the 300 mags, ah no I don't think so but I do know that I can get the same thing done with the big 7's than I can with the big 30 mags absolutely I do.
You say what I said makes no sense so go ahead and tell me a bit about me. Oh that's right you don't know me, never met me and have never even spoken on the phone with me never shot with me and yet you're willing to say that what I said about coming full circle doesn't make any sense.
I started my elk career with a .270 (and for me the true test of a big game cal is elk, at least on this side of the big pond, I could add the big bruins but hardly anyone ever gets to hunt them so I don't go there...), from the .270 I went to various big 7's, 06's, and on to the 338 WM, spent a lot of time with the .340 (went thru a couple of barrels) as well I spent quite a bit of time with the 375's and various 416's.
I'm a member of the 50/50 club meaning I'm over 50 years old and have been and around the taking of over 50 head of elk, so I have some fairly commited thoughts as to what works and what's needed and what isn't!
This year I carried a .308, a .270, a .260 and a Mashburn a bit while elk hunting. This began to morph quite a few years ago where I started going back to the smaller rounds as I know I can get it done with ease using them and don't need the mega cannons anymmore. From what I've seen over the years this is a pretty darn natural progression.
For me years ago the big 33's, the 375's and the 416's were my big guns. And while I still own a wonderful 375 Wby it rarely gets any time on the field and mainly stays home. While the 7 Mashburn Super has been my main "big rifle". Not that I don't play with this or that.
Bottom line, dogcatcher223, you don't know the first thing about me, or where I've come from and or have done so I really don't give a flock whether what I said makes any sense to you and or not...
So for me yeah I do feel that I've come back to the beginning again
Dober
Dober.... deep down I really believe you know the 300 wm is better than the Mashburn!
I can totally identify with Calvin's example of a big 338 putting the hurtin' on deer and such, but in the case of differentiating between the 'knockdown' power of various .30 magnums, I think it's more dependent on range and bullet construction than anything.
BTW, I'm in no way a naysayer of the big .30s. I have one myself and love the sucker, those 180gr NBTs started at 3090 sure are an excellent means of smacking critters. I'm really anxious to run some 7mm 162 A-Maxes into game though... they are to date the only bullet that has dented a steel plate I shoot at 500 yards for load work.
Bottom line, dogcatcher223, you don't know the first thing about me,
You are right, the only thing I know about you, is what you have typed on this forum. I never even heard of a Mashburn until I heard you going on and on about it. If you want to make a different impression, then type something different.
If you don't like what I write you're more than welcome to put me on ignore. In the mean time if I want to write about the Mashburn I sure as heck will...
Dober
"True respect starts with the way you treat others, and it is earned over a lifetime of demonstrating kindness, honor and dignity"....Tony Dungy
The coming full circle thing is a natural progression of serious hunters. Every serious hunter I know talks about it and to be honest, despite having a decade long love affair with the 300 ultra mag I can see a day when I will be using my .280 Remington exclusively. For me the ultra and any 30 cal magnum requires mucho discipline to shoot proficiently, is mentally exhausting to shoot more than a few rounds in a session and all the while devours powder and barrels.
The coming full circle thing is a natural progression of serious hunters. Every serious hunter I know talks about it and to be honest, despite having a decade long love affair with the 300 ultra mag I can see a day when I will be using my .280 Remington exclusively. For me the ultra and any 30 cal magnum requires mucho discipline to shoot proficiently, is mentally exhausting to shoot more than a few rounds in a session and all the while devours powder and barrels.
Again good solid expierenced points made by all......
The OP is a Lil kid and has his mind already made up. We've all been 14 and know we knew what we wanted. He wants a gun too big for him and thinks some device on the end that makes it louder and blows dirt in the eyes of others is THE ticket I'm all for the young fella but he has his mind made up.....
So I say get a weatherby In 30-378 and put your thingy on the end if it to make it recoil like a 270. Then in 15 years enjoy a 30-06......grin
There is no "knockdown power" that reliably floors BG animals;and there is no "room for error" that is compensated for by powerful rifles and sloppy and indifferent marksmanship.There is only good bullet placement.
Amen to that, Bob. I will say that bullet performance and individuality in animal reactions make up the other part of why some well-hit animals run and some don't.
There is no "knockdown power" that reliably floors BG animals;and there is no "room for error" that is compensated for by powerful rifles and sloppy and indifferent marksmanship.There is only good bullet placement.
Amen to that, Bob. I will say that bullet performance and individuality in animal reactions make up the other part of why some well-hit animals run and some don't.
Jordan I agree.One time I floored an antelope with a gut shot(my fault,bad shooting) using a 7 mag and 140 Bitterroot....literally exploded her....she was dead by the time I covered the 350 yards to where she lay.
It was a sample of "one",and not the kind of thing I'd place any confidence in because I have seen too many times an opposite result.
Also agree with BWalker concerning some Big 30's.I had them in droves,hunted continent wide with them.Still love them but don't own any now.
15 years or so ago I dropped down a full notch in rifle weight, recoil,etc,and stuff is just as dead as before.
A good brake will chop that recoil down fairly well. Although I don't want to be "that guy" at the range. Now on to the knockdown matter, here's an example; A little girl went hunting at my hunting club last year, she was using a. 223, she shot the deer directly in center mass, missing the heart and lungs greatly, the deer ran a good distance and it was barely found. The exact same shot placement was used later on with a .280, the deer dropped right there. Shot placements is key, I will agree, but knockdown is a factor that creates room for error. A. 223 to the heart kills a whitetail every time, heck, a .22lr can kill a bear if you shoot it in the eye, but who in the world wants to feed their family with a gun that limits their kill possibility? I'm not saying that people should shoot whitetail with a. 338 lapua, but normally comfort starts in the middle, if you feel comfortable shooting something with a. 223 then go for it, but I don't. But all of it is based on shot placement and room for error (also know as knockdown). I am also starting to put my eyes on smaller caliber because of this forum though, I was looking at a .260 but I might as well use a. 308. I don't know why but I have my eyes set on a short mag, but it's hard to decide, if they make a 7mm short mag. I think that would be perfect. Thanks for posting it really got me thinking.
Hmmmm? The OP knows what a .338 Lapua is but is unaware of 7mm WSM and SAUM?
I wonder if he lives in Paradise AK and just loves to fish?
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
I can't believe I read all the post on this thread. A lot of good advise for sure. Someone said the OP is 14 years old, I just read that he was young. As long as your spending daddy's money, get what ever you want, right. Figure out what caliber is coolest, order it then go shoot it. After all this is the only rifle that you will own during your entire lifetime. Be sure to post pics of what you decide to get, I for one will be waiting to see how you used the information provided to you on this subject.
Tim
"I hate rude behaviour in a man .....I won't tolerate it." Capt. Woodrow F. Call (Tommy Lee Jones) The Movie "Lonesome Dove"
The OP should grab a GAP Non-typical in 7WSM and call it a day. There's not much room for improvement when you start at the top, though
Not much room for improvement.... I like how you left just enough room for the Mash guys to squeeze in.
I've not noticed any difference in on-game performance, or reaction to a hit, between the various big .30s and the big 7s. What I have noticed a substantial difference in.... is the ability of folks to shoot the 7... they seems miles ahead of your average guy with a .300... especially a 14 year old.
Were it me... I'd rock a 24" sporter 7 Remmie on your action of choice. Ti, McStock, Manners.... whatever. Snatch a sub-$300 Conquest.... Talleys.... pick one of about 100 fabulous game bullets and proceed to sluce whatever walks this great earth... suffice a few meanies.
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
It's a myth .30 Mag guys made up..... happens to be the only trump card they have on the 7mm Rem. Mag.....
I agree partly on that, shot placement is 75% of it, but knockdown is the other 25%, and without a doubt not a myth.
Yes it is.
Get a 30/06.
Pardon me for being abrupt with the young fella,but I bet he is no where near as recoil proof as he likes to beleive.Recoil tolerance has almost nothing to do with tough shoulders.
A 300 RUM (like a 300 Weatherby or 300 RUM)is a cartridge for thoroughly seasoned and experienced riflemen with very high round count under their belts,ingrained good shooting skills and innured to recoil through experience;not for kids or other neophytes who don't burn several thousand rounds of centerfire ammo annually and believe in myths like "knockdown power".To believe otherwise is wishful thinking.
"Knockdown power" is a very well placed bullet,and nothing else.
If the OP's heart and mind are set on a 300 magnum today I would get a 300 WSM or 300 Win Mag.They are the most practical, most available and (in the case of the WSM),the easiest to shoot well, which is far more imortant than myths about additional knockdown power.
If you can't get it done with one a 300 WSM or 300Win Mag, you should likely stay home.
Thanks Bob. Young man, this is my advice too. Let us save you 30 years of cartridge schizophrenia. You can thank us later
A good brake will chop that recoil down fairly well. Although I don't want to be "that guy" at the range. Now on to the knockdown matter, here's an example; A little girl went hunting at my hunting club last year, she was using a. 223, she shot the deer directly in center mass, missing the heart and lungs greatly, the deer ran a good distance and it was barely found. The exact same shot placement was used later on with a .280, the deer dropped right there. Shot placements is key, I will agree, but knockdown is a factor that creates room for error. A. 223 to the heart kills a whitetail every time, heck, a .22lr can kill a bear if you shoot it in the eye, but who in the world wants to feed their family with a gun that limits their kill possibility? I'm not saying that people should shoot whitetail with a. 338 lapua, but normally comfort starts in the middle, if you feel comfortable shooting something with a. 223 then go for it, but I don't. But all of it is based on shot placement and room for error (also know as knockdown). I am also starting to put my eyes on smaller caliber because of this forum though, I was looking at a .260 but I might as well use a. 308. I don't know why but I have my eyes set on a short mag, but it's hard to decide, if they make a 7mm short mag. I think that would be perfect. Thanks for posting it really got me thinking.
Hmmmm? The OP knows what a .338 Lapua is but is unaware of 7mm WSM and SAUM?
I wonder if he lives in Paradise AK and just loves to fish?
John after rereading the OP's post I think your on to something!
I must disagree. These are three round I know practically nothing about besides ballistics. I take all comments into consideration. From the comments I now know: The UM is a master's rifle, i'm not a master. The. 300 SAUM is effective but unavailable. And the .300 Win. Mag. is balanced, as in decent recoil and good accuracy. I could honestly say that from the comments I've learned that knockdown is not as important as accuracy, but still needs to be relevant(Although the reason is significantly more than that). I've also learned from what i've read that 7mm SMs and .270 SMs give me a unique gun with great results. Honestly if i were you i'de be more worried about me trying to get away from the crowd and changing my opinions from other people's opinions and facts too easily. At my age(now days) when you ask about one caliber, another one I've never heard of will come up. But in all rwality, you shoot a deer in the heart with a .223 it dies, same thing with a. 50, that to me proves accuracy is more important than knockdown no matter what. That shows me that if you put that gun in your shoulder alittle more, that could effect your shot, same with flinch. So I guess i'm saying, if I'm elk hunting with a. 270, and my friend has a .375 I could care less.
Just a couple thoughts because I was a ballistics hound as a youngster as well. Presently, I am infatuated with the .325 WSM for reasons that escape me at the moment. But, I don't really need one. Same for the 6.5 Swede, though that one I may really need.
As somebody said, though, "only accurate rifles are interesting." And that got me thinking about optics, which I hope you haven't left out of the equation.
I'm not an optics expert by any means, but I'd be in favor of getting a good rifle/cartridge combination that you can shoot all day at the range with an absolute primo scope.
I've a Iraq vet friend who owns a Class III manufacturing company. The firearm he has the most fun with is a customized, integrally-suppressed CZ bolt action in .22 lr with a mil-dot Nightforce scope on top. "See that leaf at 100 yards out on the lake?" Click, click, hits the leaf. Then he chooses another target, adjusts again, and hits it. This from the picnic table with a bipod.
I know you're not looking for a .22, but I'm thinking a nice traditional cartridge in the .270, .30, 7mm area (short action and/or mag if you like) in a good platform with an absolute "bomber" scope will let you shoot enough rounds to be lights out. You may not have the biggest ballistics on the block, but you'll be able to do more with what you do have.
Because it's not beating you to death, you'll get lots and lots of good practice, limiting flinches and bad habits. Because you reload, you'll have a wide variety of bullet and powder combinations to test out.
I'm not recommending a Nightforce or any other particular scope, but what I am recommending is get a really, really good one, and learn to use the combination. A nice rifle, with an even nicer scope. Us old farts have a saying (one of many), "it's not the wand, it's the magician."
Just my .02.
Good luck to you.
What part of "shall not be infringed" do you not understand?
Just a couple thoughts because I was a ballistics hound as a youngster as well. Presently, I am infatuated with the .325 WSM for reasons that escape me at the moment. But, I don't really need one. Same for the 6.5 Swede, though that one I may really need.
As somebody said, though, "only accurate rifles are interesting." And that got me thinking about optics, which I hope you haven't left out of the equation.
I'm not an optics expert by any means, but I'd be in favor of getting a good rifle/cartridge combination that you can shoot all day at the range with an absolute primo scope.
I've a Iraq vet friend who owns a Class III manufacturing company. The firearm he has the most fun with is a customized, integrally-suppressed CZ bolt action in .22 lr with a mil-dot Nightforce scope on top. "See that leaf at 100 yards out on the lake?" Click, click, hits the leaf. Then he chooses another target, adjusts again, and hits it. This from the picnic table with a bipod.
I know you're not looking for a .22, but I'm thinking a nice traditional cartridge in the .270, .30, 7mm area (short action and/or mag if you like) in a good platform with an absolute "bomber" scope will let you shoot enough rounds to be lights out. You may not have the biggest ballistics on the block, but you'll be able to do more with what you do have.
Because it's not beating you to death, you'll get lots and lots of good practice, limiting flinches and bad habits. Because you reload, you'll have a wide variety of bullet and powder combinations to test out.
I'm not recommending a Nightforce or any other particular scope, but what I am recommending is get a really, really good one, and learn to use the combination. A nice rifle, with an even nicer scope. Us old farts have a saying (one of many), "it's not the wand, it's the magician."
I think as of now i'm set on a 7mm or .270, either in SM or SAUM, as far as SM goes i'll be getting a .270 WSM, but if the SAUM on either caliber is better in my eyes i'll probably get that, all depends, as for the scope situation, I really have no clue. I've lived off of 30 year old scopes that cost less than $30 (at that time at least). I know Nightforce scopes are really nice, but they cost a pretty penny. All I could ever ask for is a 4-12 with mil-dots. I don't know what to call it, but it's the third knob on some scopes( elevation, windage, and whatever it's called). As you see, as far as scopes go, I really know hardly anything. I'll go to the Optics section once i've picked my caliber and try to sponge up everything I can.
Rather than 7mm or .270.... you should go with the B-29... it's a bad azz round. Had a write-up on it a couple years ago in Rifle magazine. You may ask Mule Deer.... he was one of the guys who created the cartridge.
Not a lot of info out on it.... but ask around here and you may be able to find some stuff out. I think it would be exactly what you're looking for.....
You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
BagABuck - i think you're on the right track if you're keeping your mind open to wisdom and eschewing hype. An accurate rifle that you can shoot well, with a cartridge/caliber that has reasonable kinetic ability and you will win the day. You will shoot better and grow in confidence. Shot placement is 99% of the shooting part of hunting (and shooting isn't the only important aspect of hunting!).
Don't let mean-spirited fools discourage you - regardless of your (or their) age - hater's are always going to be just that and nothing more. Simply remain humble regardless of the quantity/quality of information you gather and keep an open mind.
The 7mm caliber (and the .308 as well) has a wide array of bullets you can choose from since you reload.
A good brake will chop that recoil down fairly well. Although I don't want to be "that guy" at the range. Now on to the knockdown matter, here's an example; A little girl went hunting at my hunting club last year, she was using a. 223, she shot the deer directly in center mass, missing the heart and lungs greatly, the deer ran a good distance and it was barely found. The exact same shot placement was used later on with a .280, the deer dropped right there. Shot placements is key, I will agree, but knockdown is a factor that creates room for error. A. 223 to the heart kills a whitetail every time, heck, a .22lr can kill a bear if you shoot it in the eye, but who in the world wants to feed their family with a gun that limits their kill possibility? I'm not saying that people should shoot whitetail with a. 338 lapua, but normally comfort starts in the middle, if you feel comfortable shooting something with a. 223 then go for it, but I don't. But all of it is based on shot placement and room for error (also know as knockdown). I am also starting to put my eyes on smaller caliber because of this forum though, I was looking at a .260 but I might as well use a. 308. I don't know why but I have my eyes set on a short mag, but it's hard to decide, if they make a 7mm short mag. I think that would be perfect. Thanks for posting it really got me thinking.
Hmmmm? The OP knows what a .338 Lapua is but is unaware of 7mm WSM and SAUM?
I wonder if he lives in Paradise AK and just loves to fish?
A good brake will chop that recoil down fairly well. Although I don't want to be "that guy" at the range. Now on to the knockdown matter, here's an example; A little girl went hunting at my hunting club last year, she was using a. 223, she shot the deer directly in center mass, missing the heart and lungs greatly, the deer ran a good distance and it was barely found. The exact same shot placement was used later on with a .280, the deer dropped right there. Shot placements is key, I will agree, but knockdown is a factor that creates room for error. A. 223 to the heart kills a whitetail every time, heck, a .22lr can kill a bear if you shoot it in the eye, but who in the world wants to feed their family with a gun that limits their kill possibility? I'm not saying that people should shoot whitetail with a. 338 lapua, but normally comfort starts in the middle, if you feel comfortable shooting something with a. 223 then go for it, but I don't. But all of it is based on shot placement and room for error (also know as knockdown). I am also starting to put my eyes on smaller caliber because of this forum though, I was looking at a .260 but I might as well use a. 308. I don't know why but I have my eyes set on a short mag, but it's hard to decide, if they make a 7mm short mag. I think that would be perfect. Thanks for posting it really got me thinking.
Hmmmm? The OP knows what a .338 Lapua is but is unaware of 7mm WSM and SAUM?
I wonder if he lives in Paradise AK and just loves to fish?
Not even dreaming of being close.
Don't you have some snakes to grind????
How cute.
Another Lil Fish wannbe.
John Burns
I have all the sources. They can't stop the signal.
I am young, but I have plenty of shooting experience, and my dad has agreed that it is time for my first rifle. I am looking for a caliber that can take just about anything in North America and Canada with the exception of bear. I am a big fan of the .300 saum, but it's lack of availability is a huge negative factor, but I do reload quite a bit, so I can keep that in check. But... The .300 Ultra Mag. has a bit more FPS and knockdown, but availability isn't good. My least favorite, the. 300 Win. Mag. is the most available by far, and it does offer decent knockdown, but I believe it's over rated and lacks individuality, unlike the other two rounds. I need some experienced minds to help me out. Feel free to correct any of my errors and put in your input, it would be much appreciated.
A NULA in a 270 WCF just makes alittle to much since. Thank me later.
A good brake will chop that recoil down fairly well. Although I don't want to be "that guy" at the range. Now on to the knockdown matter, here's an example; A little girl went hunting at my hunting club last year, she was using a. 223, she shot the deer directly in center mass, missing the heart and lungs greatly, the deer ran a good distance and it was barely found. The exact same shot placement was used later on with a .280, the deer dropped right there. Shot placements is key, I will agree, but knockdown is a factor that creates room for error. A. 223 to the heart kills a whitetail every time, heck, a .22lr can kill a bear if you shoot it in the eye, but who in the world wants to feed their family with a gun that limits their kill possibility? I'm not saying that people should shoot whitetail with a. 338 lapua, but normally comfort starts in the middle, if you feel comfortable shooting something with a. 223 then go for it, but I don't. But all of it is based on shot placement and room for error (also know as knockdown). I am also starting to put my eyes on smaller caliber because of this forum though, I was looking at a .260 but I might as well use a. 308. I don't know why but I have my eyes set on a short mag, but it's hard to decide, if they make a 7mm short mag. I think that would be perfect. Thanks for posting it really got me thinking.
Sorry kid, but if you honestly believe that this "knockdown" theory will save you come time to pull the trigger, then you really need to go back to square one and learn to shoot with a .22 all over again. I've seen deer gut-shot with 9.3x74r's as well as a .375 h&h (deer were running) and neither dropped on the spot due to "knockdown". I'm still scratching my head at this one.
WOW! Loved this whole thread. Man buy a 30-06 and shoot the thing until it won't shoot any more. After that get a big gun and a little gun and have fun with both. You can get a new savage and put a high quality scope on it and you can kill just about anything at any practical range. If you must have a shiny item to show off then do it, just don't expect these guys here to eew and aww over it. Read up on bullets for a given cal and load to get an idea on true knockdown power at a given range. I have an 06 and a 300RUM. Both Remington's but my 06 is a pump. It has killed game at 466 yards with 180grn ballistic tips with one shot. The RUM is new to me and time will tell if it truly has any advantage. I say do what you want and enjoy the recoil, I do.
If you don't have anything nice to say, you must be talking about Hilary Clinton.
When it's time to bury your guns it's time to dig em up.
Adds perspective,that Rogue kills phuqqers for a living.
Hint...............(grin)
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
you need to learn to crawl before you walk,a 30-06 will kill anything in north america to include big bears,read up on the caliber.you dont need an anti tank gun to kill animals unless you are just looking for the cool factor.out to 500 yrds ill put my 06 against any magnum for accuracy,its lso no slouch on energy.what ever you get please use common sense and get something you can handle.shooting is a great sport if you enjoy it
I must disagree. These are three round I know practically nothing about besides ballistics. I take all comments into consideration. From the comments I now know: The UM is a master's rifle, i'm not a master. The. 300 SAUM is effective but unavailable. And the .300 Win. Mag. is balanced, as in decent recoil and good accuracy. I could honestly say that from the comments I've learned that knockdown is not as important as accuracy, but still needs to be relevant(Although the reason is significantly more than that). I've also learned from what i've read that 7mm SMs and .270 SMs give me a unique gun with great results. Honestly if i were you i'de be more worried about me trying to get away from the crowd and changing my opinions from other people's opinions and facts too easily. At my age(now days) when you ask about one caliber, another one I've never heard of will come up. But in all rwality, you shoot a deer in the heart with a .223 it dies, same thing with a. 50, that to me proves accuracy is more important than knockdown no matter what. That shows me that if you put that gun in your shoulder alittle more, that could effect your shot, same with flinch. So I guess i'm saying, if I'm elk hunting with a. 270, and my friend has a .375 I could care less.
Kid , in about 20 years you're gonna realise how very little you actually know right now. And by the way there is a whole slew of old farts in this thread who didn't get their first rifle bought by Daddy. They actually worked and spent their own money for it , and some of them have spent a lifetime with rifles , some of those guys have done so as a vocation.
These are the people you're attempting to lecture to and play "expert" with , they've dispensed valid fact and good advice to you,which you have more or less rejected when it didn't agree with your preconceptions. This of course begs the question of " If you Know It All then why bothering asking any of us?"
I'll give ya my standard advice for wet behind the ears knowitalls. Go buy SOMETHING and learn to shoot and get back to us in a decade or so , go learn the lessons on your own that all these folks offered up for ya..........
Just a couple thoughts because I was a ballistics hound as a youngster as well. Presently, I am infatuated with the .325 WSM for reasons that escape me at the moment. But, I don't really need one. Same for the 6.5 Swede, though that one I may really need.
As somebody said, though, "only accurate rifles are interesting." And that got me thinking about optics, which I hope you haven't left out of the equation.
I'm not an optics expert by any means, but I'd be in favor of getting a good rifle/cartridge combination that you can shoot all day at the range with an absolute primo scope.
I've a Iraq vet friend who owns a Class III manufacturing company. The firearm he has the most fun with is a customized, integrally-suppressed CZ bolt action in .22 lr with a mil-dot Nightforce scope on top. "See that leaf at 100 yards out on the lake?" Click, click, hits the leaf. Then he chooses another target, adjusts again, and hits it. This from the picnic table with a bipod.
I know you're not looking for a .22, but I'm thinking a nice traditional cartridge in the .270, .30, 7mm area (short action and/or mag if you like) in a good platform with an absolute "bomber" scope will let you shoot enough rounds to be lights out. You may not have the biggest ballistics on the block, but you'll be able to do more with what you do have.
Because it's not beating you to death, you'll get lots and lots of good practice, limiting flinches and bad habits. Because you reload, you'll have a wide variety of bullet and powder combinations to test out.
I'm not recommending a Nightforce or any other particular scope, but what I am recommending is get a really, really good one, and learn to use the combination. A nice rifle, with an even nicer scope. Us old farts have a saying (one of many), "it's not the wand, it's the magician."
Just my .02.
Good luck to you.
Kudos , they should make the above a damn "sticky". And yeah good glass makes the rifle , along with your corollary point as far as something you can shoot all day , the added factor of being something that one can AFFORD to shoot.
And after 7 years of thread on this, the winner is...……………………………… 30-06 for all the questions and points not yet asked. Was working 100+ years a go and only gets better by the year with better powders and bullets. It has shootability and that will never go away. MB
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
i would purchase only one of these 2 Cartridges 30-06 or a 300 Win.Mag. reason you can find ammo for either of these 2`s ammo in most places in the world. you can also find new brass very easy if you decide too reload, both are very accurate cartridges.as far as purchasing a new rifle maybe find a good used Sako ? Ruger ? Winchester with a claw and just have it rebarreled with a good brand barrel ? these are the only 2 brand barrels i would use anymore > Brux or Kreiger barrels. i bet doing this with either of these 2 brand barrels they will shoot as well or better than any custom rifle made.good luck,Pete53
I have a 300 Savage, 308, 30-06, 300 WSM, 300 H&H, 300 Win mag, 300 Weatherby. If I had to pick one, I’d go 30-06. I kills as well as my cannons. If I had to pick a magnum, 300 Win mag
I have a 300 win mag and 9.3x62 in the safe when I go elk hunting.Instead I pick up the tikka 06 and I’ll take any elk with in 500 yards. Shot placement over displacement. If I really wanted to burn all that powder of RUM, then I’d step to 338 RUM to get some real “knock down power”
All of them do something better than the 30-06, but none of them do everything as well.
I read all 14 pages and learned something I didn't know before. Who would have thought a 300 mag wasn't capable of killing a bear.
The collection of taxes which are not absolutely required, which do not beyond reasonable doubt contribute to public welfare, is only a species of legalized larceny. Under this Republic the rewards of industry belong to those who earn them. Coolidge
Yes, that's right aalf we are now memorializing him with all the care and dedication we'd give another member's cat if it got run over.. by a car. MB
Cat hit by a car- sounds like a good description of knockdown power.
He who joyfully marches in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would suffice.
Yes, that's right aalf we are now memorializing him with all the care and dedication we'd give another member's cat if it got run over.. by a car. MB
Cat hit by a car- sounds like a good description of knockdown power.
I hit a twenty-seven pound turkey while traveling at fifty-five miles per hour. I don't know how many foot/pounds of energy that turkey had but it sure messed up the grill on my pickup.
"Only Christ is the fullness of God's revelation." Everyday Hunter
We were all young, dumb and full of ....now I just stick with the olé reliable. I find myself hunting with a .243 mostly, and to think 40 years ago I called it a squirrel gun.
![[Linked Image]](http://i47.tinypic.com/256y3rt.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](http://i379.photobucket.com/albums/oo236/rcamuglia/RedneckRange005.jpg)
![[Linked Image]](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Logo_Schmidt_%26_Bender.jpg){kind=logo}
