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#7164855 - 12/10/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: bigblock455]  
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Sure, the plastic skirt or belt expands to fill the bore but if the copper bullet is only .499 and the barrel is .504 it can exit leaning (canted) at an angle and this may greatly affect accuracy.


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#7165534 - 12/10/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: M99ER]  
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Originally Posted by M99ER
Sure, the plastic skirt or belt expands to fill the bore but if the copper bullet is only .499 and the barrel is .504 it can exit leaning (canted) at an angle and this may greatly affect accuracy.


That would be a big bore for a modern ML.

Just for some info. The Platinum and Aerolite Powerbelts fit tighter than the rest of the PB's. That's my experience anyway.


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#7165669 - 12/10/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: Hydrashocker]  
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Originally Posted by Hydrashocker
What about the CVA Bergara barrel?

I believe mine is .504 so I would assume the Areolite would be a good choice with the 120 grains BH209 I'm using, or a step down to 110 grains?
I don't know about new CVAs, but my last generation Wolf 209 has a smaller bore, more like .499 or so. I just recently tried the Hornady 300 gr FPB bullet which has a diameter of .502, and it wouldn't even start down the bore, that being said, I can fit a Powerbelt .338 gr Aerotip Platinum down my bore, so, if you happen to have a bore over .499, Powerbelts might not be the way to go, IMO. Just something to take in consideration.

#7165700 - 12/10/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: SAUMHUNTER79]  
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My Accura MR had a .502, and PB's fit nice and tight, and shot BH 209 perfect.


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#7166850 - 12/10/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: Mauser_Hunter]  
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Originally Posted by Mauser_Hunter
My Accura MR had a .502, and PB's fit nice and tight, and shot BH 209 perfect.
Oh, ok, they must've changed bore dimensions with the new generation, cool.

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#7175959 - 12/12/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: SAUMHUNTER79]  
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I'm going to go have it remeasured!

I know it's bigger then my Knight and takes the larger MMP Black HPH-12 with a .451 bullet 250 grain bonded Shockwave. It's a little tight but I still can use a cheap hollow ramrod. I load it up with 120 grains BH209 and can punch a 3 shot touching hole at 100 yards! Shooting out to about 300 yards I'm only roughly down about 8-9 inches. But I really need to confirm that up at the range.

I know the Copper 295 PB's are not tight at all, in fact I would think they would move after seating if walking around.



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#7176170 - 12/12/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: Hydrashocker]  
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yeah i'd say you'll be a hell of a lot lower at 300 yards than the 8 or 9 inches.

#7176836 - 12/12/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: bigblock455]  
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Hydrashocker,

You need to check your calcs. Sighted in with a 150 yard zero, your drop at 300 yards would be closer to 30".

Bill V

#7177787 - 12/13/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: alphabingohawken37]  
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Maybe this weekend I'll head up to the range, gotta work Sat though, but I can only calibrate my CVA right now. Iím still waiting on my new VDC scope from Nikon. 30" seems really low to me for some reason, and right now I am about 1.5" high at 100 yards. Now Iíve shot straight on at a bucket at 300 with this and found the impact and it was just at the bottom of a 3 gal bucket rim. But I need to get an actual target and measure it out, like I said it was just a red neck shot and I thought it was only 8-9 inches. This was at a new range, so I went up with a tape and actually measured it, as before it was just by eye. Everything looks great and was measured out accordingly, however it's not exactly flat, there is about an 8 degree incline upward to the 300 yard mark, 100 is flat trajectory. Donít think an up hill shot would help myself.

If I get out today I might head over to the machine shop and have both measured at a different facility.



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#7188455 - 12/15/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: Hydrashocker]  
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I took the Savage and the CVA/Winchester Apex out for a test drive with BH209 today. Winchester 209 primers.
I started shooting with 777 to verify the rifle was still on.
In the Savage, BH209 farted and barely pushed the Thor out of the barrel, twice.
I aimed the barrel down, popped 2 more primers and loaded with 777 no troubles.
The Cva has a tight bore so I shot Powerbelt 348 lead, no hollow point, no copper.
777 worked fine as usual, BH209 moaned a little and after I waited for a minute I ran a screw down the bore and pulled the bullet.
Swabbed the bore and 777 worked again. I tried Winchester 777 Primers too and they also worked fine.
I'll try BH209 when the weather warms a little but today I was not impressed.
Bh209 is $30 for 10oz., 777is $26 for 16oz. and 777 just works.
I can deal with a little crud ring from 777.
Temps today were mid 30s at time of test.

Last edited by colodog; 12/15/12. Reason: add comment

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#7188686 - 12/15/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: colodog]  
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Apex plug needs some work to work correctly with bh209.

Also noticed you were using w209 primers. They are a bit to cool for the old style cva breech plug.

Clean it out with the drill bit prior to loading?

#7189438 - 12/16/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: bigblock455]  
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Yes, the plugs were clean.
I keep the required bit in with each rifles tool kit.
Cva Breech plug

Last edited by colodog; 12/16/12.

"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them.
You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain, like the features of a friend."
Isak Dinesen
#7190597 - 12/16/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: colodog]  
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#7195253 - 12/17/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: bigblock455]  
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Winchester 209 primers are NOT hot enough. You need either CCI 209M or Federal 209A primers. Also make sure you seat the bullet real good.

I had my CVA plug modified and that helped tremendously!

PS. I still didn't get my range time yet, and I'm trying to find a better way to get a really good measurement on my barrels. The caliper won't reach the inside on the landings because both barrels are hollowed out for easy load. I'm going to have to figure out something like use a divider then measure that?



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#7195338 - 12/17/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: Hydrashocker]  
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hornady great plains bullet, push it down the bore half way and then push it back out, measure the lands on the bullet that engraved the bore.

#7200831 - 12/18/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: bigblock455]  
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Your full of good ideas!!



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#7201426 - 12/18/12 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: Hydrashocker]  
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Originally Posted by Hydrashocker
Your full of good ideas!!


that is what is called "Slug(ging) the bore".

Any 'all lead' full bore bullet pushed in, removed and measured lets you know the bore dimensions of your rifle. I recently used 'Buffalo' brand bullets to slug both of my 50 cal smokers. One was .500", the other was .5025"


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#7382222 - 01/30/13 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: M99ER]  
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Ok, sorry to bring this thread back from the dead but I got my Knight KP1 inner diameter measured "Slugged" as you say. Going to get my CVA done but I thought I would post up the results of the KP1.

Well I first smashed a lead maxi-hunter and pulled the breech plug out then pushed it starting from the breech. It smashed in nice and tight but after just about 2-3 inches got really easy and jut pushed right out. What I mean is the ID down by the breech is smaller then the barrel???????

So I got another and this time went down the bore. It was the same all the way down tell about 3" from the breech and sure enough it tightened up. So I pushed it backward out of the bore and measured it with a real nice caliper and lone behold it sat right at .5025", so my first measurement was correct.

If I were to have pushed it the last 3" or so out of the breech it would have been right around .502" to .5015", well I assume anyway. I look forward to do the CVA which I know it's a larger diameter.

So, how could the barrel be different ID guys?



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#7383283 - 01/30/13 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: Hydrashocker]  
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Well you said that you "assumed" the breech area would be .502" or .5015". Did you measure that Maxi-ball that was started from the breech? Was it actually smaller?

It could be roughness, fouling or as you say, a narrower bore. I'd try cleaning the living snot out of that area and see if it gets closer to the average of the rest of the barrel.

Perhaps I should do a similar test just to see if mine are that way.

#7386746 - 01/31/13 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: M99ER]  
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No I didn't even bother measuring the one from the breech as it fell out of the end of the bore when I tipped it up to get a better handle on the rod. I figured it would anyway by the way it felt.

Now it could be some fouling, but I can't see anything! I am going to try measuing my CVA tonight as I'm not busy and I'm interested if it is the same way. I'll also try to scrub up the breech areas just in case there might be some build up there and I'll also re-measure the KP1.

For whatever the reason, it's definatly narrower.



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#7468854 - 02/21/13 Re: Blackhorn 209 failure to fire in cold weather? [Re: Hydrashocker]  
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Last update for this thread.

I measured my CVA Elkhorn Pro .50 cal with a blued Bergara barrel and it came out at .5030 and it was the same all the way up the barrel.



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