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Don't take it the wrong way, but I didn't ask, someone asked for me because he didn't like my choice. However, I'm an open minded person, so I'll listen to everyone's suggestions.
Second, two of the three quotes you chose give different suggestions, and the other is simply a smart ass reply. I don't see everyone agreeing on the same thing, that's why I'm still engaged in this conversation.

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The point he's making is that for your first truly LR rifle, you'll be better served by a 6.5 or 7mm than a .300WM. The external ballistics of the 6.5 and 7mm bullets give you an enormous bang for your buck as far as recoil, powder consumption, and bullet price goes. I would look at the .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor if you are interested in low cost, low recoil, high user friendliness, and great accuracy and ballistic potential. The next step up would be the 7mm Rem Mag, which gives equal and even superior ballistic performance to the .300WM, but with less recoil and cheaper bullets.

Either choice will be something that you will enjoy practicing with much more than with a .300WM, and therefore you WILL practice more in the end. If you practice more and enjoy shooting the rifle more because of the relatively gentle recoil, you will quickly be better able to place the bullet where you want it at long range, and that is far more lethal than a slightly larger bullet from the .300WM, if placed not quite as well. After all is said and done, you will be a more deadly LR hunter with a .260, 6.5 Creed, or 7RM, than you would be with a .300WM, unless you've put thousands of rounds down range from the .300 to learn the rifle and condition yourself to place your shots with precision, despite the unpleasant recoil.

And it wasn't a smart ass reply. I was serious.

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Lol, that's exactly the type of reply that I consider most helpful. Suggestions with information to back them up are far more constructive and useful than a blunt suggestion followed by a smart remark. I do appreciate the feedback. Thanks.

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If your referring to my post, there is nothing smart ass about it at all. The guys I quoted are the ones I read/listen to when it comes to long range shooting.

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The OP left a few things for assumptions, such as sporter, varmint, or heavyweight rifle.

For a new-ish LR shooter I tend to default to the 308 for the commercial availability of match grade ammo, decent ballistics, and modest recoil. Nowadays the 6.5 Creedmoor is in that camp too.

300 WinMag also has good LR ammo available commercially, and if you want one, and are up to shooting it well, seems like this whole discussion is fairly moot. The factory seconds may not hold up too well in the accuracy department out at say 600+, but who knows maybe they will.

If you want a sporterweight that is kinda like your 30-06, you may simply need to get a scope with turrets, and a LRF, and get to practicing.

I think most of us get into LR with what we have, then our needs/wants tend to evolve. It's the normal course of things. A lot of enjoyment and learning along the way.

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Perhaps another consideration is muzzle blast. Recoil isn't the only thing that can wear on you. A mag, especially braked, can have an effect on you even with good hearing protection.

Wen I first got into some LR, I built a 6.5-284 on a LA 700. I had a 24" barrel on her b/c I thought I'd use it more for hunting. Were I to build another, I'd go all out with a hot 6.5 or 7mm with a long barrel.

HOWEVER, my rig now is a HB .308 and it really is tough to beat when you factor in everything brought up above. You said reloading is out for now and I wouldn't place any faith in cheap .300 WM ammo and if you're not practicing at LR then you're wasting time.

Listen to the experienced guys on here. A .308 or .260 is where it's at for learning and practice--cheap and accurate and easy to shoot a lot of rounds. Get a LRF if you don't have one and learn to dope wind--that's the secret.


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Originally Posted by Jordan Smith
The point he's making is that for your first truly LR rifle, you'll be better served by a 6.5 or 7mm than a .300WM. The external ballistics of the 6.5 and 7mm bullets give you an enormous bang for your buck as far as recoil, powder consumption, and bullet price goes. I would look at the .260 or 6.5 Creedmoor if you are interested in low cost, low recoil, high user friendliness, and great accuracy and ballistic potential. The next step up would be the 7mm Rem Mag, which gives equal and even superior ballistic performance to the .300WM, but with less recoil and cheaper bullets.

Either choice will be something that you will enjoy practicing with much more than with a .300WM, and therefore you WILL practice more in the end. If you practice more and enjoy shooting the rifle more because of the relatively gentle recoil, you will quickly be better able to place the bullet where you want it at long range, and that is far more lethal than a slightly larger bullet from the .300WM, if placed not quite as well. After all is said and done, you will be a more deadly LR hunter with a .260, 6.5 Creed, or 7RM, than you would be with a .300WM, unless you've put thousands of rounds down range from the .300 to learn the rifle and condition yourself to place your shots with precision, despite the unpleasant recoil.

And it wasn't a smart ass reply. I was serious.


this man is giving you good advice. In tangible terms, 6.5/.260 vs. .300 is the difference between burning about 70 g of powder to launch a 190-200+ g bullet, and burning about 40 g of powder to launch a 120-140 g bullet. the .300 wallops on both ends, but it doesn't give you a trajectory or wind-bucking advantage over the 6.5. And while the .300 isn't twice as expensive to shoot in terms of lead and powder, it isn't too far off.

personally, I have the most fun shooting a .308. It doesn't have the ballistics of the 6.5/.260, but it's not bad, and there are tons of things you can do with it from a reloading perspective. I've got a Remington 700P that I can shoot all day long without being bothered by the blast or recoil.


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If you want to shoot it a lot, and eventually hammer game with it, buying a 7 Rem Mag is what you need to do.

I did that. And I'd be pissed having something else now... The high BC 7mm bullets are something you have to shoot to believe.

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Originally Posted by dubya
but from people he's talked to at work the 7 kicks more than a 300 and the 30 won't be affected by wind as much as a 7 mag will.


The only thing the .300 Winny does better than the 7RM.... is recoil. Listening to guys at work talk about rifle rounds..... is like listening to the ladies at a beauty shop talk about who has the cutest kid. Not only do the facts get all screwed up..... but emotion and ego get involved.

Your buddy should get a .243 and about 2 cases of 105 Amax..... shoot'em up.... then come back and talk. If he ain't rolling his own fodder..... then .308 or 6.5 Creed are probably the only two I'd trust with out past 400 with factory smoke.



You better pray to the God of Skinny Punks that this wind doesn't pick up......
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Originally Posted by oldslowdog

Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
If someone's gotta ask, they probably need a 308Win.


That's classic right there!

Well put, Shane.



Big time very well put!

Dober


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I've had lots of guys to the range that have never hit anything beyond 300 yards in their life (on purpose anyway}..The gun that will put a "holy chit" smile on their face the fastest is the 6.5creedmoor. It isnt just for beginners either. Its also one of myfavorites. as I said before. factory loaded 140 amax is excellent, save your brass and duplicate the factory load when you get a loader..couldnt be more strait forward.

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If you want to shoot at range, it takes a lot of practice. getting the drops is pretty easy.. but the wind is a fickle b**ch. You would have to spend some fairly serious cash to send say 1000 rds/year down range in nearly any factory round. Even if its affordable I wouldn't find 50+ rounds a day from a 300wm fun.

If I was going to start again..

Learn to reload, you can get started for maybe $200 or so. It will pay for itself in the first years ammo.

I would troll the gun shops till I found a used varmit gun cheap and then spend $350 to have ITD spin on a new tight twisted tube in 243/260/6.5CM (me I would choose the CM, because the recipe is on the box)

Then I would shoot the crap out of it.

when banging steel at 400, 500 and 600 yds gets boring.. go buy your 300mag you will be ready to make good use of it.


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Joey,

Lots of good advice representing many years of collective experience.

I'd like to add a point. To get where you want to be, you need to become an experienced reloader. Things like round concentricity are important. In your situation, I'd start reloading the '06 now, as I learned more about available options. You can do a lot with that round and learn as you go.

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I didn't read the entire thread but based on the first page and the experience of the 'fire I expect it would be the 308, 243 or 260 in that order. The SPS Varmint in 308 would not break the bank and the point about Black Hills match ammo is excellent.

My contribution, send him this thread to read...





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Originally Posted by rosco1
I've had lots of guys to the range that have never hit anything beyond 300 yards in their life (on purpose anyway}..The gun that will put a "holy chit" smile on their face the fastest is the 6.5creedmoor. It isnt just for beginners either. Its also one of myfavorites. as I said before. factory loaded 140 amax is excellent, save your brass and duplicate the factory load when you get a loader..couldnt be more strait forward.


Makes a ton of sense to me.




The 280 Remington is overbore.

The 7 Rem Mag is over bore.
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I paid under 700 for mine, and it shoots great. http://www.ruger.com/products/m77MarkIITarget/specSheets/17980.html

Its not the only option,but given the criteria I think its one of the best. I will normally shoot the big guns for a bit and get tired of it..Then pick up a 223 or the creedmoor, and thats where i'll burn the most powder, by far..They are just fun to shoot.


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