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Originally Posted by baberuth43
How would you know if its had a clean history or not? I mean I didn't think there was anyway of knowing on a used gun
your right, really no way to know for sure. I have never seen runs in a factory finish on the wood.

I don't buy 70's once they went to plastic butt plates. So it's easy to tell if metal plate with widows peak is original. You really need to be proficient at spotting a reblue and it won't take to long once you handle some originals. After that learn to recognize wood to metal fit. When they start switching out parts the fit goes to hell, unless they are real good at forgery....(then you have to go back and look at wood finish).

Last would still be to really look close at rare cals and super grades. The super grade needs to first have a proper front sight, then fit and finish comes in. It's really like taking a college class in m70s. And you can still learn after 20 years. Hope that doesn't scare you.

Once you go into the super grades , know the type of cheek piece for your serial no. Learn to always pull the bolt out and check the scribbled no on the bolt and make sure it matches the guns serial no!

Don't let hang tags convince you of originality. The hang tags are now being forged. If the gun has a butt pad and its not a magnum caliber I will usually walk away since I want a stock that's not been cut.

Once you see extra holes drilled in the side of the receiver for a side mount scope, there no collector value.

I could write a book, buts its already been written. Roger Rule wrote it. Buy " the Riflemans Rifle" and read it cover to cover. Then in six months re read it!

Then and only then should you start to plop down big cash for some of the stuff ,

I do like the pre 64 .458 African for investment because they are very difficult to fake and they didn't make very many. $$$$$

Good luck!,!!!,

Last edited by Cartod; 12/18/12.
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I would look for a 1950's featherweight in a popular caliber.
If you don't like it, someone else will!

A full size gun in .30-06 might be hard to sell, unless it is from the 30's or 40's and in very good condition.

Last edited by Bushmaster1313; 12/18/12.
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Originally Posted by baberuth43
How would you know if its had a clean history or not? I mean I didn't think there was anyway of knowing on a used gun


Best way is to buy from the original owner or a reputable re-seller.

But if you're going to shoot it, why pay such a premium for high finish?

Here's my $700 FWT .30-06

[Linked Image]


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by Cartod
Originally Posted by baberuth43
How would you know if its had a clean history or not? I mean I didn't think there was anyway of knowing on a used gun
your right, really no way to know for sure. I have never seen runs in a factory finish on the wood.

I don't buy 70's once they went to plastic butt plates. So it's easy to tell if metal plate with widows peak is original. You really need to be proficient at spotting a reblue and it won't take to long once you handle some originals. After that learn to recognize wood to metal fit. When they start switching out parts the fit goes to hell, unless they are real good at forgery....(then you have to go back and look at wood finish).

Last would still be to really look close at rare cals and super grades. The super grade needs to first have a proper front sight, then fit and finish comes in. It's really like taking a college class in m70s. And you can still learn after 20 years. Hope that doesn't scare you.

Once you go into the super grades , know the type of cheek piece for your serial no. Learn to always pull the bolt out and check the scribbled no on the bolt and make sure it matches the guns serial no!

Don't let hang tags convince you of originality. The hang tags are now being forged. If the gun has a butt pad and its not a magnum caliber I will usually walk away since I want a stock that's not been cut.

Once you see extra holes drilled in the side of the receiver for a side mount scope, there no collector value.

I could write a book, buts its already been written. Roger Rule wrote it. Buy " the Riflemans Rifle" and read it cover to cover. Then in six months re read it!

Then and only then should you start to plop down big cash for some of the stuff ,

I do like the pre 64 .458 African for investment because they are very difficult to fake and they didn't make very many. $$$$$

Good luck!,!!!,


Excellent advice right there guys....I'd have to add that if you aren't a serious collector but want to learn about the model 70's then buy the paperback version of Rules book, "The rifleman's rifle"...It's truly a wealth of information. If you are really serious about starting a nice winchester model 70 collection then buy the hardback version:

[Linked Image]

Here's 2 of my original (never messed with) fwt's:

30-06 (1956):
[Linked Image]

308win. (1952):
[Linked Image]

Notice how they don't look perfect grin.....

Here's one my friend had that was refinished (metal and wood):
[Linked Image]
Even though this rifle looked new, the value was lost because of the refinish work. It was a shame too because this is a nice transition model.....

Sometimes the ones that have been put together are very hard to spot like the 375 H&H I had built a couple of months ago. I couldn't afford an all original one so I bought the parts and had one put together blush. It's pretty much all era correct with 100% original parts but nonetheless it's not...I'll never get rid of it so I don't mind:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
[img]http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x401/chiefbsa/006-51.jpg[/img]
[img]http://i1180.photobucket.com/albums/x401/chiefbsa/004-68.jpg[/img]

Don't worry guys, I'm not going to try to pass it off as an original...It's staying with me grin......Hopefully this gives the OP something to think about.....


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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There is just enough information out there to get a guy in trouble. Model 70's have been counterfeited for decades and good counterfeits can fool an expert. Don't buy anything you can't live with as it is, regardless of the condition.

One of the biggest Model 70 collectors here in Montana had a guy that knew the right formulas for bluing to match original Winchester. He was truly a craftsman to restore a Model 70. The problem isn't in the restoration, it is in the rack that some dealer has and tells you it is original.


[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]
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Originally Posted by pal
Originally Posted by baberuth43
How would you know if its had a clean history or not? I mean I didn't think there was anyway of knowing on a used gun


Best way is to buy from the original owner or a reputable re-seller.

But if you're going to shoot it, why pay such a premium for high finish?

Here's my $700 FWT .30-06

[Linked Image]





Pal, there's nothing wrong with going that route either. I like your fwt even though I give you chit about the recoil pad install...Nice looking rifle there...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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77rl for me.

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bsa--I'll give you $700 for that non-original .375. grin


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by pal
bsa--I'll give you $700 for that non-original .375. grin


Pal, try finding just the barrel for one of those bastids and get back to me....Let alone the magnum receiver and nice era correct stock grin


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Originally Posted by pal
bsa--I'll give you $700 for that non-original .375. grin


Hell, that Rules book pictured above is worth almost that much whistle


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Nah. My paperback copy will do for me. And I have enough rifles, actually. And the .30-06 is all the power I want to handle.

But my point was that $700 isn't much of an investment in a pre-'64 m70. And you don't need to spend $1,000's on an unfired collectible if you intend to shoot it.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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Originally Posted by pal
Nah. My paperback copy will do for me. And I have enough rifles, actually. And the .30-06 is all the power I want to handle.

But my point was that $700 isn't much of an investment in a pre-'64 m70. And you don't need to spend $1,000's on an unfired collectible if you intend to shoot it.


Well said my friend...


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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Found a 1936 first year 90% all original any thoughts plz hurry with replies on this one btw they want around 2000

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Caliber?


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.220

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1936 build would put the serial number in the low 4-digits.

.220 Swift is more common than .257 Roberts.


"There's more to optics than meets the eye."--anon

"...most of us would be better off losing half a pound around the waist than half a pound on our rifle."--dhg

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I have a supergrade pre-64 with the fanciest deluxe walnut they offered at the time. I forget what Dad called it. It is a 300 H&H that I inherited from my Dad. It is original and beautiful. Dad took good care of it and so have I. It has been shot a few times but not a whole lot. I shot it once.

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Originally Posted by bryant777
I have a supergrade pre-64 with the fanciest deluxe walnut they offered at the time. I forget what Dad called it. It is a 300 H&H that I inherited from my Dad. It is original and beautiful. Dad took good care of it and so have I. It has been shot a few times but not a whole lot. I shot it once.


That's probably a beauty. You should post some pics of it sometime. Sounds like one we would all appreciate....


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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A wealth of information here guys. Thanks to each one for sharing...



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I've had one dealing with Dave Riffle and it was positive. The rifle, a Pre-64 Model 70 .30/06, was exactly as advertised and shot very well.


Keep your gun-hand ready and your eyes peeled.
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