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#7168289 - 12/10/12 thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin  
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stevenautique Offline
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ID today- dont know tomorrow
I am considering a new Marlin in 45-70 or 450 Marlin. It appears they are similar ballistically. Anyone have experience with the 450 Marlin? I am a loader so factory loads isn't a concern for me. BuT what about the load itself. Is brass going to be available?

Thanks in advance

CMG 300 BP

#7168401 - 12/10/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: stevenautique]  
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T_Inman Online content
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T_Inman  Online Content
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The Rock
I've got the short barreled guide gun with a Leupy 1-4X20mm...it's a hammer on both ends. I have killed a shiras moose and a white-tail doe with it. I haven't loaded for it, so I can't comment on brass availability. I shoot the 325 grain leveroution loads. It's actually pretty accurate if you can handle the recoil.

I like it, but want to play with it more before I try shots beyond 150-200 yards.

Last edited by Dog_Hunter; 12/10/12.

All women want me. There's no point in denying it, nor trying to change their nature.

It is something I have come to accept.
#7168557 - 12/10/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: T_Inman]  
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stevenautique Offline
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Originally Posted by Dog_Hunter
I've got the short barreled guide gun with a Leupy 1-4X20mm...it's a hammer on both ends. I have killed a shiras moose and a white-tail doe with it. I haven't loaded for it, so I can't comment on brass availability. I shoot the 325 grain leveroution loads. It's actually pretty accurate if you can handle the recoil.

I like it, but want to play with it more before I try shots beyond 150-200 yards.


IM intrigued with its uniqueness but wondering if i should just stay with the 45-70

#7168623 - 12/10/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: stevenautique]  
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Vic_in_Va Online content
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Probably so, the brass (if you handload) is not as available as .45-70, and loaded ammo can be hard to find.

I would like to see the .450 hang on. If anything, the round makes a good short-action thumper in a bolt rifle, and if the donor rifle is a short-mag, the conversion is pretty straight-forward.

#7176842 - 12/12/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Vic_in_Va]  
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Elkmen Offline
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I stayed with the 70, when I bought mine last year. There is really no difference in the performance. I think however that the life of the 450 will be shorter than that of the 70.

Alpha

#7179746 - 12/13/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Elkmen]  
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tikkanut Offline
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Podunk Utah....
Buy 200 pcs of 450 brass...set of dies...rifle too of course

.458 boolits are everywhere...Forget about any issues...

#7181216 - 12/14/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: tikkanut]  
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obie458 Offline
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Greene county NY
In most factory loads the 450 holds a big advantage over the 45-70 because of pressure limitations on the 45-70. However this low pressure limitation can disregarded in modern marlin rifles. As a hand loader the 40-70 can actually be loaded to slightly higher velocities than the 450 due to a slight capacity advantage. This is why in premium ammunition such as buffilo bore the 45-70 is slightly faster than the 450.

#7181659 - 12/14/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: obie458]  
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Fischer Offline
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Lithia - Central Florida
What obie said. Especially if you handload, the 45-70 would be a better choice.

#7204125 - 12/19/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Fischer]  
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Fotis Offline
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Cheyenne, Wy
45-70





"Weatherby was too long so I nicknamed it "Bee""
#7204167 - 12/19/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Fotis]  
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Mr_Saw Offline
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Upstate NY
When I wanted my Guide Gun the shop had both available and I bought the .450 because no one else had one and I wanted something different. I would do it again for the same reason regardless of which is "better".


NRA Endowment Member, Life since 1978
Bravo

#7217200 - 12/22/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Mr_Saw]  
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DeerSkinner Offline
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Ventura, CA.
I just purchased a BLR in 450. I know I can load it hotter than any Marlin, so I get performance beyond what is possible with an old 45-70. A BLR can handle 300 and 338 win mags, so this is doable and safe.


Rick

Life is not a spectator sport, get out and have fun.



#7228085 - 12/25/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Mr_Saw]  
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kingstrider Offline
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The Low Country
At one point I had a 450MXLR in addition to a 1895GS and 1895SDT. The 450 was nice but superfluous to the two 45-70s so I sold it. Probably the biggest thing going for the 45-70 is components are more readily available.


Keep moving forward!
#7231045 - 12/26/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: kingstrider]  
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colodog Offline
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North of Denver
I doubt Bambi would be able to tell which headstamp was on the brass that was fired the bullet, 450M or 45-70, although the 45-70 has slightly larger case capacity.
450M brass is still only made by Hornady...
If I wanted the mostest from either cartridge I'd get a Ruger #1, not made in 450M so it would be 45-70...
Which will be here in 20-50 years, 45-70!


"Camping places fix themselves in your mind as if you had spent long periods of your life in them.
You will remember a curve of your wagon track in the grass of the plain, like the features of a friend."
Isak Dinesen
#7236444 - 12/28/12 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: colodog]  
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340mag Offline
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Ive found my 450 marlin caliber BLR absolutely loves 50 grains of IMR3031 under a 405 remington bullet with a 215 fed primer, Im not 100% sure of velocity but its a hard hitting load thats producing 1" hundred yard groups off the bench consistently
http://www.chuckhawks.com/450Marlin.htm
450 marlin handloads.

Wt. Bullet Powder Manufacturer Powder Charge Velocity (FPS) 250 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 57.0 2,288
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 60.0 1,970
Remarks: 1.95 group
300 Nosler Partition Accurate XMR-2015 62.0 2,091
Remarks: 1.80 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 51.5 1,751
Remarks: 2.25 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 53.0 1,869
Remarks: 2.10 group
300 Sierra JHP Vihtavuori VV-N130 54.0 1,990
Remarks: 1.90 group
300 Barnes XFN Hodgdon H-4198 50.0 1,982
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon H-4198 48.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.60 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 59.0 1,770
Remarks: 1.65 group
350 Hornady FP Hodgdon Varget 61.0 1,821
Remarks: 1.70 group
350 Kodiak FP IMR IMR-3031 56.0 1,827
Remarks: 1.55 group
350 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-335 60.0 1,872
Remarks: 1.20 group
400 Speer FN Hodgdon H-4895 56.0 1,773
Remarks: 1.75 group
405 Kodiak FP Hodgdon H-322 52.5 1,842
Remarks: 1.50 group
405 Magma cast IMR IMR-4198 32.0 1,332
Remarks: 2.00 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 48.0 1,875
Remarks: 1.80 group
415 RCBS cast GC Alliant RL-7 50.0 1,960
Remarks: 1.45 group

300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 38.7 1,928
Remarks: start chg
300 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 43.0 2,096
Remarks: max chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.0 1,716
Remarks: start chg
405 Lead Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 40.0 1,865
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.2 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 48.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 52.2 2,198
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 58.0 2,389
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 54.9 2,217
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 61.0 2,410
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 58.1 2,226
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 64.5 2,420
Remarks: max chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 60.3 2,214
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 67.0 2,407
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 59.4 2,001
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 66.0 2,175
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 56.7 2,034
Remarks: start chg
300 Sierra FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 63.0 2,211
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 39.4 1,813
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-5744 43.8 1,971
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 46.1 1,919
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-1680 51.2 2,086
Remarks: max chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 50.0 2,030
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2015 55.5 2,207
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 55.8 2,067
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2230 62.0 2,247
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 55.8 2,010
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2460 62.0 2,185
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 54.9 1,892
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2495 61.0 2,057
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 55.8 1,982
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2520 62.0 2,154
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 55.8 1,719
Remarks: start chg
350 Speer FNHP Accurate AAC-2700 62.0 1,869
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 36.9 1,688
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-5744 41.0 1,835
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 41.4 1,732
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-1680 46.0 1,883
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 47.3 1,883
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2015 52.5 2,047
Remarks: max chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 49.9 1,877
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2230 55.4 2,040
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 54.0 1,909
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2460 60.0 2,075
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 49.5 1,689
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2495 55.0 1,836
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 53.1 1,875
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2520 59.0 2,038
Remarks: max chg; compressed load
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 53.1 1,620
Remarks: start chg
400 Speer Flat Nose Accurate AAC-2700 59.0 1,761
Remarks: max chg; compressed load


300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-3031 52.5 1,870
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
300 Barnes XFN IMR IMR-4198 44.2 2,000
Remarks: 39,000 psi
300 Nosler Partition IMR IMR-3031 57.0 2,100
Remarks: 35,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-3031 56.0 2,030
Remarks: 38,000 psi; compressed powder charge
350 Hornady IMR IMR-4198 45.0 2,050
Remarks: 40,000 psi
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-3031 50.8 1,860
Remarks: 40,000 psi; compressed powder charge
400 Barnes Flat Nose IMR IMR-4198 40.0 1,820
Remarks: 40,000 psi

Last edited by 340mag; 12/28/12.
#7252358 - 01/01/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: 340mag]  
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yar Offline
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wherever the deer are
Modernized 45/70, just a little harder to find than 45/70 of the shelf.

#7258498 - 01/02/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Mr_Saw]  
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temmi Offline
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temmi  Offline
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Texas
I have a 450M and I would buy it again

It is everything I hoped for

On the downside you should handload or your ammo options are limited.

I would and did get a 450M

Snake


That which does not kill us makes us stronger

Friedrich Nietzsche
#7274074 - 01/05/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: temmi]  
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GuideGun Online content
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GuideGun  Online Content
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Maine
What is wrong with the .45-70? It will kill animals just as dead as the .450 marlin will, and probably a little cheaper at that. The brass and reloading supplies for the .45-70 are readily available and can be found almost anywhere, that is a plus for sure. Are the gains from the .450 over the .45-70 really worth the extra hassle and price? A hot loaded .45-70 will come close, if not match .450 performance....To me it doesn't make any sense to get a .450 over the .45-70. The gains are minimal. Brass availability might be an issue with the .450 down the road.

Last edited by GuideGun; 01/05/13.

-Matt

"The proof of the whisky is in the drinking, the proof of the rifle is in the shooting."
#7275026 - 01/06/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: GuideGun]  
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Vic_in_Va Online content
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Actually, the .45-70 can match the .450 performance levels, it has slightly more case capacity.

#7276889 - 01/06/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: Vic_in_Va]  
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Twinkletoes Offline
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Twinkletoes  Offline
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Posts: 233
Prince of Wales Is., Ak
Before I ordered my XLR, I did give the .450 considerable thot.
I ended up with the same thots that GG stated, will I be able to buy brass 10 years from now? I did buy the XLR in .45-70.
Love the gun, and I probably woulda loved it just as well if it had been a .450, but I honestly feel that the .45-70 will be around for nother 125 years, and I don't believe that we can say the same for the .450.
Marlin has always made a fine firearm, however, thier specific designed cartridges have not had good record to success.

#7373515 - 01/28/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: GuideGun]  
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The_Troll Offline
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The_Troll  Offline
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Fairbanks, Alaska
I have both, a BLR .450 and a few .45-70's. I handload and shoot 400 grn cast paper patched bullets. Moose and little bears do not stand a chance. I keep the range to 200 yds and under. If there is a difference between the two cartridges i cannot tell.

#7401580 - 02/04/13 Re: thoughts/ opinion on the 450 marlin [Re: The_Troll]  
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longbarrel Offline
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I have two .45-70s. I'd seriously consider a .450 if I found one but would get a lifetime supply of brass at the same time. I handload exclusively so either cartridge would work fine for me.


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