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I'm as loony as they come.... . I don't care what rifle, cartridge, bullet I'm using as long as I know it's suitable and will humanely kill an elk. We all know the good ol 30-06 will work, but why bore ourselves with packing one of those outdated things around the woods

Any gun/caliber that's legal will kill an elk. Humanely is up to the hunter.

go with the 03.06, see how it likes 165 gr Barnes tsx, masybe similar Nosler Partition. I have been responsible to for three guys getting the .338, just because I have one-- they have gone back to the 270 and 30.06 because it was too big for them... good footwear great socks, good glass and a rifle you can shoot

I will throw my name in the hat for what it is worth. I have shot a lot of elk with 180 nosler par bullets. Have recovered about eight bullets in the elk they were all text book mushroom and retained most of there weight. A lot went right threw thew them i have NEVER lost an elk using them.
A few of years ago i got a screaming deal on a 338 Winchester in ruger red butt. I started shooting it it is heaver and the elk i have shot with it died just like the 06 elk. I have both and take the 338 and the 06 as a back up.
If you are going on a hunt of a life time always have a back up.

(There you go you get a new rifle and still have the 06 for backup best of both worlds. You need a back up gun in your camp you never know when someone might drop there gun or a mechanical issue will come along.)

30-06 and 200/220 grain bullets.

GETTING THE MOST OUT OF YOUR .30-06

by John Barsness



TODAY THE PRIMARY OBJECTIVE of most handloaders seems to be accuracy, with muzzle velocity closely behind, though we still run into guys who claim to get 100 or even 200 ft/sec more than most loading manuals suggest might be realistic. In my experience these experimenters are often into hot cars as well as hot handloads, but most of us recognize that if we want a .300 magnum we should buy one, rather than attempt to turn our .30-06 into a .300 WSM.

The majority of us want fine accuracy with as much velocity as is safely possible. Modern powders continue to improve performance, though sometimes not quite as much as we'd like to believe. While some new powders do provide higher muzzle velocities under "normal" conditions, they can lose considerable velocity at cooler temperatures. (And exactly why "normal" means about 70 degrees, the temperature of our climate-controlled living-rooms, I've never been able to quite figure out. Do we hunt deer in our living-rooms?)

Though I own rifles chambered for centerfire cartridges ranging in powder capacity from about 12 to 120 grains, and in calibers from .20 to .45, I am an unabashed admirer of the .30-06 Springfield. In fact 10% of my centerfires are chambered for the .30-06. This isn't because I don't like smaller and larger .30's; another 20% of my rifles are chambered for .30 caliber cartridges ranging from the .30-30 Winchester to the .300 Weatherby Magnum. (Obviously I haven't fallen for the modern suggestion that 7mm is the perfect all-around bullet diameter for big game hunting - though I own exactly as many 7mm rifles as .300 magnums.)

But the .30-06 always seemed just about right, even before my first game animal. This was because the gun writers of the early 1960's, including Jack O'Connor, told me so. I spent my paper route money not just on .22 ammo but a subscription to Outdoor Life and an annual copy of Gun Digest, and so knew an awful lot about big game rifles long before taking my first deer.

Since then I have actually used the .30-06, buying my first at age 20, a "sporterized" Model 1917 Enfield that I turned into a real sporter, partly by grinding the rear sight "ears" from the action and drilling and tapping it for scope bases. This rifle shot pretty well, but I soon acquired yet another .30-06, a used Remington 760 that the brother of a friend had to sell cheap.

Since then I've owned at least 20 more '06's, including several 1903 Springfields (one a Sedgely sporter), a couple of pre-'64 Model 70 Winchesters, several 98 Mausers, a T/C Encore, a Browning BAR and a Sauer drilling. Last fall I took the biggest bull elk of my life with a Benelli autoloader in .30-06, using 180-grain Federal Tipped Trophy Bonded ammunition, while filming a TV show, about as modern a rifle and load as can be found. In fact I've owned or hunted with a .30-06 in every type of rifle action except the lever, and might have to correct that.

For many years I'd taken more big game animals with the .30-06 than any other cartridge, though recently the .270 Winchester edged it out slightly. I still have taken a much wider variety of game with the .30-06 than any other round, ranging from American pronghorn and African springbok to elk and kudu, on three continents. It works.

Over the decades I've experimented constantly with various handloads, so know how to make a .30-06 shoot both accurately and with reasonable zip. The loads that follow have worked not just in one rifle but several. They may not work in your .30-06, and may have to be adjusted slightly due to differences in chambers and bores - but the odds are they will work pretty darn well.

Let me start by saying that if you have been loading your .30-06 with IMR4350 and any bullet weight from 150 to 220 grains for many years, then you might as well go ahead and keep using the same load. That powder still works for anything worth doing with a .30-06. What follows is for rifle loonies only.

150-grain bullets:

I am not crazy about using bullets under 150 grains in the .30-06. Yeah, some modern 130-grain bullets will penetrate elk reliably, but I was born and raised and live in the West, and have hunted too many other windy places to be impressed with high muzzle velocity that sacrifices wind-bucking ability. So the list starts at 150.

As noted, IMR4350 is a fine powder with 150-grain bullets, and a safe one too, since you just about can't pile too much into a .30-06 case to be dangerous. But in recent years Ramshot Big Game with 150's has proven itself a little better. Not only is Big Game less cold-sensitive than IMR4350 (not a bad thing when hunting in a typical Montana November) but accuracy and muzzle velocity tend to be just a bit better. It also meters a heck of lot easier than IMR4350, which really doesn't meter at all but ka-chunks its way through a powder measure.

Nosler's latest Reloading Guide 6 lists Big Game as the fastest powder for 150-155 grain bullets. I tend to trust Nosler's numbers a little more than those of some other manuals, because they actually report the muzzle velocities from their pressure barrels, rather than working up loads in a pressure barrel and then shooting them for velocity in a sporter barrel, or rounding them off to the nearest 100 ft/sec.

Nosler's muzzle velocity for their top charge of 58.0 grains is 3056 ft/sec, while Ramshot's own top load is 57.5 grains for a muzzle velocity of 2932 ft/sec. My own experience is that 3000 ft/sec is easily reachable in a 24" barrel, sometimes with less powder. A lot depends on the bullet. I first tried Big Game with 150's using Swift Sciroccos, a rather "sticky" bullet, and got 3059 ft/sec with 54.0 grains from the 24" barrel of my New Ultra Light Arms Model 24, with fine accuracy. With 56.0 grains ejector-hole marks appeared on the case heads.

This proved to be a deadly deer load, but also serves to remind us that today that various bullets create widely different pressures, so we can't blithely substitute one company's 150-grain data for use with another company's 150-grain bullet. Start with around 53 grains of Big Game, just to make sure, and watch the chronograph carefully. Often a magnum primer will help accuracy when using any Ramshot rifle powder.

165-grain bullets:

Here's where good old IMR4350 really shines. For decades my standard load with 165's was 58.5 grains. The extra half-grain may have been superfluous, but did seem to result in better accuracy in more than one rifle than "just" 58.0 grains. Muzzle velocity was around 2900 ft/sec, and this load killed a pile of big game, first with Sierra GameKings, and then with Nosler Solid Bases and Partitions, long before we had today's vast array of "premium" bullets to choose from. In fact, I would still be happy to hunt any game in Montana with a 165 Partition and 58.5 grains of IMR4350.

(By the way, you won't find this load in any manuals, because .30-06 data is kept to 60,000 psi instead of the slightly higher levels afforded more "modern" cartridges. But a few years ago I loaded up some 165 Partitions with 58.5 IMR4350 in Federal and had Ramshot's pressure lab run them through their piezo barrel. The average pressure for 10 rounds was 58,348 psi, with very low standard deviation, so the load was entirely safe even by SAAMI standards - and with the Federal 215 primer, which tends to raise pressures slightly over standard primers.)

These days, however, I am far more likely to load 59.0 grains of Hodgdon's H4350SC, and for the same reasons I load Big Game instead of IMR4350 with 150-grain bullets: H4350SC meters a lot easier and is far less cold-sensitive. In fact in tests at around 0�F it didn't lose any velocity at all from 70-degree levels, while IMR4350 often loses 100 ft/sec or more. The loss of velocity isn't as important as the changes in point of impact that often occur. H4350SC also tends to be a little slower than IMR4350, though this isn't always true from lot to lot, so again watch that chronograph.

180-grain bullets:

For decades I bounced back and forth between IMR4350, Hodgdon H4831 and Alliant Reloder 19 when loading 180's in the .30-06. All worked pretty well, but none stood out so much across several rifles that I could pick one load and stick to it. Then, a few years ago, I tried Ramshot's new Hunter powder with 180's. The first experiments took place in my old NULA with Barnes then-new Triple Shock X-Bullets. Eventually I worked up to 58.0 grains. Accuracy was very fine and muzzle velocity was right around 2800 ft/sec.

I have since tried this load with different 180's in several .30-06's, including my Sauer drilling. Accuracy has been universally very good, and in 24" barrels velocity around 2800 or even higher. Ramshot's own data goes up to 60 grains (with Hornady BTSP Interlocks) but I have never found any reason to go beyond 58.0 grains. The load has worked not only in the NULA and Sauer but in the .30-06 barrel for my T/C Encore and a fine pre-'64 Model 70 Winchester. In the Model 70 (with no changes other than adjusting the trigger and making sure all the screws were tight, including the forend screw) the load grouped around .5" with Sierra GameKings and .8" with Nosler Partitions at 100 yards.

In fact, when I went to New Zealand in early 2007 to test Berger VLD's on wild goats and big red stags, I immediately loaded up 58.0 grains of Hunter behind some 185 VLD's, and got 100-yard groups of .4" at 100 yards, with a muzzle velocity of 2862 ft/sec. Combined with the very high ballistic coefficient of the VLD's, this made shooting at long range very easy in the New Zealand mountains. So now I do have a 180-grain .30-06 load that works in several rifles.

200-grain bullets:

Today I don't think there's a real need for anything bigger than a 180-grain bullet in the .30-06, but when I started using one in the 1970's I often hunted elk and mule deer in the steep, thickly-timbered Montana mountains near the Idaho Panhandle. Shots could come at any angle, but a lot of range or velocity wasn't required. I tried some of the old "semi-spitzer" 200-grain Nosler Partitions (the ones with the relief groove around the middle) in my first Springfield sporter and found that 58.0 grains of the original military-surplus H4831 shot acceptably (especially for an ancient rifle with a 3x Weaver) at just over 2600 ft/sec.

This load worked very well, so even when I "modernized" with a Ruger 77, a Bushnell 4x and Nosler's extruded-jacket 200-grain spitzer Partition, I tried H4831 again, this time the newly-manufactured version, eventually working up to 59.0 grains for about 2650 ft/sec. The new powder was a little hotter, but the load worked just as well as the old one. Eventually this load was used in a bunch of .30-06's, anytime the game was relatively large and the ranges relatively modest - though with the spitzer bullet it shoots as flat as a factory 180-grain load.

For a few years I used the Ruger 77 for all my big game hunting, using either a "deer" load with the 165-grain Nosler Solid base or an "elk" load with the 200 Partition. They shot to the same place at 100 yards, and the only difference in appearance between the rounds was that the 165's were loaded in Remington brass and the 200's in Winchesters, just so I could tell them apart.

However, that didn't always work. Once while pronghorn hunting I ended up with the 200's. I didn't realize it, though, until after shooting an antelope at about 250 yards - and the 200 worked just fine. In fact this load is still so reliable that I occasionally use it again on some wild and tasty beast. And why not? One of its virtues is that it doesn't shoot up a lot of meat.

I have shot some 220- and even 240-grain bullets from the .30-06, the last Woodleighs, usually with H4831. They have grouped fine, but I am not real sure about what they're good for, since I have never had any problems with .30-06 bullets penetrating big game with lighter spitzers. Maybe if I were using a .30-06 when guiding brown bear clients, as Phil Shoemaker has done, I might pick one of the real heavyweights - though Phil mostly used 200 Partitions, as I recall.

The newest spitzers will work both near and far, and on the biggest game. I have shot enough 165-grain Barnes TSX's and 180-grain Nosler E-Tips into big game now to know that they work very well on game larger than deer, and that if they don't seem quite big enough I should probably be carrying something like a .375 or maybe even a .416. Heck, even at the modern muzzle velocity of 2800 ft/sec a 180 Sierra GameKing works just fine for most hunting, including elk. That's still one of the virtues of the .30-06. Though modern powders and bullets allow it to compete with far more modern rounds, it still works quite well with standard lead-core bullets, a real virtue if you're traveling and get separated from your cutting-edge handloads.

That's always a good read....

"Uncommon" common sense.

You have a 30-06 so stuff it with 180 Partitions stick a Leupold 2.5x8 on it and go get a bull.
Keep it simple.

I have killed elk with a 257 Roberts, a 338 and a bunch in between. My choice is a 7mag with 150 gr Swift Sirroco bullet. I agree with Coyote Hunter, I would rather pick the bullet than the cartridge. Lots of good advice on bullet choice above. I tend to prefer the heavier bullets unless they are premium like the Barnes X, Swift Sirroco or Nosler bonded. Whatever you use, dont shoot long range (more than 300 ish) if you dont have a rangefinder. I consider myself pretty good at judging range and depending on the elk, lighting, and type of country you are in, it is very hard to be better than a guess sometimes.
If you are not hunting with a guide I would recommend spending money on a good gps, maps, clothing and optics. And a good pack. Make sure the pack is big enough to carry all of your clothing needs so you can shed and add layers as you need them. Depending on the year I have hunted elk at 30 below and 70 above (rifle season). No matter what the weather you will need light clothing for hiking up hills and something warm to put on when you stop and glass. For a pack I used the new stone glacier pack this year but the Mystery ranch and others are good, just heavier.
I visited your part of the country for the first time this past year. I dont know how you are going to get in shape for elk hunting with all that flat land and hot humid weather. I suggest walking up and down any hills you can find and if not, maybe lots of stairs.
My friend and hunting partner is a guide and I have seen many out of state hunters with nice rifles. Some of them were wearing big puffy snow suits and couldn't walk a half mile in the mountains. Most of them never saw an elk unless it was thru a spotting scope.
I rate the physical conditioning and mental preperation for all weather hiking at 5000-9000 feet (maybe a bit more or less) as the most important factor in getting an elk.
Most people are not prepared for the work of hiking and getting the meat out can be very hard. I ran a 4.5 hour marathon this year (I know it's slow but I'm old) and I have spent days packing out elk that were a LOT harder mentally and physically.
I'm not trying to discourage or say you have to be some super athlete to get an elk, just that the better shape you are in, the more ground you can cover and the more days in a row you can go, you have better chances of an elk on the ground. Then you have to get that big thing to the truck and freezer.

Funny how we all think different about guns, and what they shoot. Maybe it has something to do with when we're born.

I've always thought of the 30-06 as more than enough for elk, and probably more than I need.

Some years ago I had a rifle built just for elk hunting. Weatherby Vangaurd in .35 Whelen...thought that was gonna be the thing at the time. Only two years later I started hunting elk almost exclusively with a 50 cal muzzleloader. Never can tell sometimes. I did manage to take a cow elk with the 35 one time though. She was moving at that ground eating trot they do and when that bullet took her through the lungs, she was down in about four more steps. So the .35 did well, but the .50 smacks em' hard too.

So pseshooter300 take that '06 and get her redone into a 50 cal muzzy...ain't nuttin' better.

There you go. Sling some real lead.

06 will be just fine. 165 or 180 grain pill will be more than sufficient. I would try to keep your shots inside 400 yards, not because the 06 won't do the job but rather an ethical matter. Check a reloading manual and see what the 'drop' is for an 06 or any other caliber for that matter. They lose a lot of energy also. My family is comprised of outfitters, guides and two Wy. Game wardens and our calibers for elk go from .243 all the way up to 7mm mag...all work fine..it is the shooter that matters the most. Good luck

Lots of good Advise here. So I won't repeat whats already been said, other than to make a point about the range to practice at.
I would say Out to 300, is more than sufficient. I live east of Elk country like yourself. Do you really want to go hunt this majestic animal and snipe it from 500 yards away?? Really?
Personally I would want to be as close as the Terrain will allow. Just my .02 cent.

I like the way you think!

Getting close is great - when you can do it. Unfortunately, it isn't always possible.

Last year I spotted my cow at 150 yards but waited for her to stop her fast walk before shooting. When she stopped the range was 399 yards. It was the last day of the season with about an hour of daylight left and I had just started hunting my way back to the truck.

My son-in-law took his first and only elk at a lasered 363 yards. That was also at day's end and we had been watching them for a couple hours, unable to get closer.

In 2000 I killed a 6x5 bull at 350 yards right at the end of shooting light. We had been watching the herd since 11:30 that morning, through sun, wind, rain, sleet, snow and more sun. The elk were settled down on a hill top and we were unable to get closer in the open sage without being seen. At dusk they started moving and to get to 350 yards I had to scoot the last 100 on my back, pushing myself headfirst through the sage, barrel cactus and inch or two of fresh snow. When I finally took the shot I figured I had only seconds left before the opportunity was lost for good. Although that was my longest shot in 31 years until last fall, it is also one that I worked hard to make it happen and the one I was and still am most proud of. Everyone else came home from that hunt empty-handed.

This small 6x6 from 2003 was taken at a lasered 213 yards with a .45-70. The herd was on the move and if I hadn't shot when I did I probably wouldn't have had one at all.


In 2007 I was on a barren, grass-covered hill expecting a shot at 400-600 yards if I got one at all. We watched some elk come off a mountain over a mile away and as fate would have it they came right up the hill I was on. The shot I took was about 40 yards after turning down opportunities at no more than 25 feet. With elk you have to be prepared - you might get a close shot or you might have to reach cross-canyon. The elk came off the mountain in the distance and ended up on my hill, just over the orange date stamp.


This picture from 2009 is from an area where we took three elk a few years previously. The tree covered hill top in the center of the picture is 500 yards away. Think you could get closer with a dozen or a hundred eyes watching?


In 2011 I took my cow at 262 yards and, while hunting bulls the next day, had cows within 25 feet. Should I have waited?

The point is you never know what the future holds but most hunters know there are lots of things that can prevent them from getting closer. Members of my hunting party have had long, hard stalks blown more than once by other hunters, but factors like end of shooting hours, end of season, weather, terrain, animal movement, unit boundaries and other factors that can limit success just as easily.

For someone coming in from out of state on what might be a rare or even once in a lifetime hunt, I strongly recommend being as well prepared as possible. Practicing to 300 yards is "more than sufficient" for most hunts but certainly not all, especially in open country or heavily pressured public land. For a shooter that is well prepared, 500 yards really isn't very far. "Snipe" at an elk at that range? If the shooter is prepared and has no other good options, why not take the shot? It certainly beats tag soup.

An elk in mountain country can turn "300 yards" into "500 yards" while you're thinking about whether or not you want to kill him.If you think you can chase him down and keep up in some country, forget it.

Like CH says,getting closer is sometimes wishful thinking...always good to get as close as possible,but even on a cross canyon bedded bull,it is sometimes the wiser choice to take the longer shot at a stationary animal...terrain and vegetation never look the same once you cross that canyon and the brush and trees you could see through from the other side may restrict visibility to short distances after you cross over and a big bull in heavy cover can be very difficult, if not impossible to approach...BTDT and I got stories from friends and I who eschewed 500-600 yard shots to staulk closer...big bulls gave the slip in heavy cover at short distance;that mix of oak and buck brush can hide a herd under your nose at close range.

Point is being able to make the longer shot is a worthy objective and I would be familiar with rifle and load to at least 500 as a routine matter.Today some folks are proficient further.

Exactly. Good placement on a stationary animal at 500 yards is often a lot easier than when taking a 100 yard shot at one that is on the move.

Having shot at (and often missed) coyotes on the run at ranges from near to far, I know firsthand how difficult it can be to get the lead correct, even with bullets running 3600-4000fps. With movers you may have only a couple seconds to get your rifle up and squeeze the shot off but the longer the shot the higher the chances you will have more time. The longest time we�ve watched animals was about 6 hours at 600 yards, a range well beyond where any of us were prepared to shoot at the time but one at which I now shoot clay pigeons. There have been other times, too, when we have watched the elk for hours before making taking our shots.

Just thinking back over the last few years�

2012 � We spotted an elk herd from about 1PM and tried several approaches, running out of cover each time, before we were finally able to get into position for a my son-in-law and hunting buddy to take their shots t end of shooting light.

2011 � I watched elk herds for hours on private land, on at least 2 different days, waiting for them to cross over to public land. Finally took mine at 262 yards on a walk, knowing that if I waited longer the opportunity would be lost.

2010 � Elk were in the area and I decided to let them come out rather than going in after them and chasing them off. They started appearing at around 3PM at a range of 500-600 yards on a cross-canyon shot. When I changed positions to close the only element limiting the time I had to take my shot was the rapidly failing light.

2007 � We watched an elk herd for about an hour as they approached from over a mile away. When I took mine it was after the elk had disappeared under our hill while still about 500-600 yards out and popped back up 25 feet in front of me. They took off on a run and I waited for a quartering away angle at about 40 yards before taking my shot. The elk were headed for the fence that marked the boundary of the hunting area, just a few yards behind me, and I had only seconds to take the shot.

More often than not, I�ve passed on runners even when they were under 100 yards. Way too much can go wrong. People tend to underestimate the lead required, unseen brush or trees can get in the way and other animals (in front or behind the intended target) can interfere. Even on an �easy� running shot the animal may bound over some obstacle or suddenly make a turn, both of which can screw up shot placement. Stationary targets on the other hand, tend to provide far more time to plan and execute the shot with fewer variables to deal with.

Go with the 30-06. It'll serve you well. practice is more important than anything else. Regarding scopes, a good 3x9X is more than sufficient. Of the last three elk I've shot, only the really long range shot require cranking the scope up to 9X on my .300 Win. Mag. For thre month prior to the hunt, I practiced on my range's sihouette range on target out to 500 meters. By the hime of the hunt, I was able to knour 4 out of the five ram targets down from a sitting position and three out of five from kneeling. Practice came in good stead as my shot was at 530 yards laser measured across a very wide open park in the White Mountains of Arizona. That was about eight years ago and I didn't do another elk hunt until 2010, mainly because Arizona is somewhat stingy with elk tags. In December 2010 I did a landowner cow elk hunt in New Mexico and tagged my cow elk on the run at 150 yards with a .35 Whelen. No hunt again in 2011 and just did another cow elk hunt in New Mexico this last January. Elk was standing at an estimate 325 to 350 yards and my .35 Whelen pushing a 25 gr. Barnes TSX took the cow down with one shot I'll admit it was probably the luckiest shot I ever made. I wa aiming for a chest shot and the bullet broke her neck at the base of the skull. Turned out that sometime between the final sight in and the shot, something happened to that scope. When I got home and checked it at the range, it was shooting 6 to 8" groups, and this from a .50-.75" rifle. It does pay to have a back up. Mine was at the motel but if I hadn't tagged, my back up would have been with me the next day. For the reccord, both New Mexico elk were shot with the scope set at 3X. You don't need a Hubble telescope on your rifle. Just a lot of extra weight to pack around and if your hunt is at 9,000+ feet MSL, you sure as hell won't want that weight. I haven't smoked since 1975 and breathing is still a bear at that altitude.
My partner on the hunt shot his at 317 yards laser measure with a 7MM Rem. Mag. pushing 160 gr. Accubonds at right around 3000 FPS. They couldn't measure my shot because it had started to snow some and was messing up the readings.
The guys here have given you some damn good advice.
BTW, my back up rifle was a 24" barreled 30-06 shooting the 190 gr. Hornady SP interlocks. I wouldn't have worried on my shot if that was the rifle I'd taken.
My wish is for you to have a successful hunt. I'll be headed back to new mexico next January to get some more darn good eating meat.
Paul B.