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#7263753 - 01/03/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: Cocadori]  
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rosco1 Offline
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utah
Sorry,I'm out on anything that Romanticizes feral horses.

putting it politely.

CMG 300 BP

#7264681 - 01/03/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: rosco1]  
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m_s_s Offline
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Davis Creek, CA
I agree with you Rosco1. A good percentage of them belong in a can.

#7268040 - 01/04/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]  
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ppine Offline
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Saddlesore,
Our opinions diverge. I have been on the Test Site also with an armed escort working on a government contract.

I have seen plenty of decent wild horses there, but your impression may be greatly influenced by the year. In a decent year this is sufficient forage and the animals are in good body condition with a lot of energy. In a bad year they walk around with their heads down and can't get out of their own way.

Once you gain a mustangs trust, like a mule then you have a chance to have something. Pretty only gets you so far with equines. Mustangs' self-preservation instinct and their feet alone make them desirable for tough jobs and tough country. Every horse or mule man has to decide if they want to get the job done safely, or just try to look good.

Last edited by ppine; 01/04/13.

The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
#7275626 - 01/06/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]  
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ppine Offline
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Fellow packers,
The fact that this group proposes to cut corners by using Ralide, plastic buckle together gizmos hints at a much larger problem. Managing pack animals on a long trip requires many other kinds of experience. As an example the stock for the proposed trip is coming from many different places. These animals will likely not have been intoduced before they are tied together and asked to go down the trail. I would give a $100 to see a video of their first day. There will be packs and dunnage strewn for miles, with some animals on their backs in a heap, and some running back to the stock trailers.

Keeping backs from getting sore and keeping weight on a long trip are other examples that take experience. They will encounter rock slides, bears, mountain lions, darkness, blizzards lots of other stuff. Swimming a pack string or jumping logs in the dark with a pack string is not for the uninitiated.

I have been in Texas. My brother lived outside Austin for 20 years and my ex-wife is a UT graduate. Texas boys are good ropers from all that arena time. Some are good with cattle, but they come from flat hot country. A summer wrangling dudes surely has opened their eyes.

They would be well advised to spend some time with some people that know how to pack for a few weeks before embarking on such an ambitious venture. Maybe they can find a packer to go with them for the first week or two.

I am disappointed that more people can't see the contributions made by modern mustangs to the horse world. They are actually a great choice for a trip such as the one being proposed. I just hope that the boys from Texas get some help before they head out.


The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
#7276250 - 01/06/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]  
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saddlesore Offline
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Ppine. It's not that there there have not been contributions by mustangs,but buying a horse is the cheap part and there are many many breeds of horses that are bred for a particular task in mind that have contributed a lot more.

With a mustang,you have no idea of it's past breeding and the possibility of getting one with Spanish Barb blood lines are slim to none.

That broom tail might have come out of blood lines that were from heavy draft horses, thorobreds, horses that had some genetic deficiency,or just plain rank horses that someone didn't have the moxy to put down when they should have. The stallion that sired any particulr horse,might just have sired that animals damn, 4-5 generations back and every generation in between.

If I were considering such a trip,I would be looking at feet both size and shape, backs, general conformation that would give me a little bit more assurance that that animal would be up to the task and dispositions that I would not have to fight all the time. Just saying that mustangs are all up to the job,just don't cut it. Sure some mustangs will fit the bill, but it's like saying everone should ride a mule and you know that ain't gospel.


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
Alpha

#7279624 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]  
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ppine Offline
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Sore,
We all have respect for your opinion. As a mule man, I would point out the similarities of mustangs to long ears.

We can use a dog analogy. I love dogs and currently have 3 purebred herding dogs. One has problems with his hips, and one has a wolverine temperment. My crossbred dogs of similar breeds have had none of these problems. Imagine feral dogs that have to fend for themselves. The weak and specialized dogs get weeded out. Only the strong ones survive to reproduce.

My thinking about mustangs has gone full circle. I am tired of quarter horses with big round feet that flake off
and like to buck for fun. They eat too much and sometimes aren't very nimble in the steep stuff. Being cowy makes up for it some of the time. If you don't like mustangs you have probably never ridden a good one. They are very common around here and are able to compete with other breeds chasing cows, in the backcountry, for endurance riding, trail trials, and for everyday use like feed lots and US Border Patrol.

The last mule I owned that really hurt me cost $5000 and came from far away.

Last edited by ppine; 01/07/13.

The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
#7280166 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]  
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saddlesore Offline
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Pine. I think you know what you talk about. The reasons you stated are why I ride mules and I don't buy other peopels troubles. I have raised all mine that I keep myself. Looking back,I have never bought a mature mule that I was completely happy about.

Don't doubt that there are good riding mustangs out there ,but just like the fairy tale,one has to kiss a lot of frogs before finding a prince.Probably true for finding any good riding critter.


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
#7280232 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]  
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ppine Offline
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Saddlesore,
I like to converse with reasonable people especially when they have experience. I hope you will give a mustang a chance in the future.

To get back on topic, we can all hope the men from Texas get some packing experience before they head out on a 3000 mile journey.


The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
#7280383 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]  
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saddlesore Offline
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I'm afraid at my age,I'm past starting any more horses or mules. This last mule I have raised will out last me and I doubt I will be buying any more horses in my life time.
I wish those guys every sucess in thier trip.I'd sure like to go along


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
#7280573 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]  
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Robster Offline
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I applaud the two of you. You had a reasonable debate, stated your position clearly and concisely and did not stoop to the name calling and mud slinging that happens all too often on forums.

I too wish those guys success, and wish I could ride along with them.

Bravo

#7282170 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: Robster]  
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saddlesore Offline
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When you work with mules,you learn humility, patience,you get a sense of humor and you figure out there are animals on this earth that may be smarter than you. You don't best them by beating them on the head and cussing at them. As you age, you figure out that all of this works with other human beings also.


If God wanted you to walk and carry things on your back, He would not have invented stirrups and pack saddles
#7282898 - 01/07/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: saddlesore]  
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cattle_auctioneer Offline
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I would like to agree with Robster, very nice to see on here. I could probably take a few lessons from these guys. Thanks again guys

#7284609 - 01/08/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: cattle_auctioneer]  
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ppine Offline
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We learned patience from mules.
About 10 years ago I was having a conversation with my Mom who is still alive at 88. "You have changed" she said. What do you mean exactly" I inquired? "You have more patience and are easier to get along with" she said.

One of the unintended consequences of working with equines, but especailly with mules and donkeys, is that it requires control of the emotions and encourages patience. Most people don't get interested in equines for that reason, but it is a common artifact of the experience. You must learn to talk with body language. You learn to wait. Timing is very important.

If I let my saddle mules sit for more than about a week or 10 days they would invent some way to mess with me. Sometimes they would refuse to get in the trailer. Or they would change sides in a 2 horse stock trailer while going down the highway. Working with equines makes people better humans. I am sure Saddlesore would agree with this sentiment. I always get along with mule people.

Last edited by ppine; 01/08/13.

The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
#7302163 - 01/12/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]  
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moosemike Offline
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People are doing some amazing things with formerly wild mustangs. The Indians did too. A lot of people ignore the evidence of what a mustang can really become because they're stuck in their thinking and don't want evidence to interfere with their beliefs. I guess there are horse lovers and there are "sort of horse lovers" who only love certain breeds and hate others with vitriol.

Last edited by moosemike; 01/12/13.
#7303427 - 01/12/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: moosemike]  
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Ralphie Online content
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Originally Posted by moosemike
I guess there are horse lovers and there are "sort of horse lovers" who only love certain breeds and hate others with vitriol.


I think there is a big difference in philosophy among different groups. I usually see the different groups as those who treat their horses as pets and those who use them for work. There are dang few mustangs working on cattle ranches.

Mustangs have been lifted up by folks who treat horses as pets.

#7306446 - 01/13/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: Ralphie]  
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ppine Offline
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Ralphie,
On this range, mustangs work for a living. The Great Basin is vast. People work cattle without fences or corrals, and hold rodear. It is rough country with sparse water on it and mustangs can get around in it. We have places like the Spanish Ranch with few roads and 40-60 mile circles. Horses get ridden only once a week with a lot of snort and fart.


The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
#7307771 - 01/13/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]  
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Ralphie Online content
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Ralphie  Online Content
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Mustangs on the span? Being used for ranch work? I've spent quite a bit of time in the Great Basin and have several friends that work there and the best I have ever heard mustangs called was [bleep].

#7309950 - 01/13/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: ppine]  
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jwp475 Online content
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Originally Posted by ppine
Sore,
We all have respect for your opinion. As a mule man, I would point out the similarities of mustangs to long ears.

We can use a dog analogy. I love dogs and currently have 3 purebred herding dogs. One has problems with his hips, and one has a wolverine temperment. My crossbred dogs of similar breeds have had none of these problems. Imagine feral dogs that have to fend for themselves. The weak and specialized dogs get weeded out. Only the strong ones survive to reproduce.

My thinking about mustangs has gone full circle. I am tired of quarter horses with big round feet that flake off
and like to buck for fun. They eat too much and sometimes aren't very nimble in the steep stuff.
Being cowy makes up for it some of the time. If you don't like mustangs you have probably never ridden a good one. They are very common around here and are able to compete with other breeds chasing cows, in the backcountry, for endurance riding, trail trials, and for everyday use like feed lots and US Border Patrol.

The last mule I owned that really hurt me cost $5000 and came from far away.


If that is your experience with quarter horses then you were scraping the bottom of the barrel when you acquired them.

My quarter horses have people friendly dispositions and seldom buck when braking, their feet do not flake off and are extremely sure footed and athletic in any terrain




I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
#7311031 - 01/14/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: jwp475]  
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ppine Offline
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jwp,
I am glad to hear that your experiences with Quarters have been positive. I used to ride a lot of different ranch horses, and they weren't usually the good ones.


The only cure for life and death is to enjoy the interval.
George Santayana
#7311269 - 01/14/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: Ralphie]  
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okbowman Offline
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Originally Posted by Ralphie
Originally Posted by moosemike
I guess there are horse lovers and there are "sort of horse lovers" who only love certain breeds and hate others with vitriol.


I think there is a big difference in philosophy among different groups. I usually see the different groups as those who treat their horses as pets and those who use them for work. There are dang few mustangs working on cattle ranches.

Mustangs have been lifted up by folks who treat horses as pets.


Agreed. I've seen a few decent mustangs but the majority were severely lacking in many aspects.

#7318961 - 01/15/13 Re: A 3000 mile trip on Mustangs! [Re: okbowman]  
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Schenk Offline
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I have a quarter, and he's got great feet. I've seen some good mustangs and mules. I want one with a butt wide and a lot of space between the ears and eyes both. lol
I can say that horse can be ridden without bucking.
Good luck on a 3k mile journey.

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