Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only light load for 458 Win mag

Anybody have a recomended load for a 458 mag, shooting a 400 grainer at around 1600-1800 fps. I allready bought some Speer bullets, but not sure of the best powder to use. Thanks.

Why so slow? I had problems with hangfires when I reduced IMR3031 and IMR4895 down to around 1850 to 1900 fps. To keep the case relatively full you will most likely need to go to something in the IMR4350 burn rate, but combustion will probably suck (read you will have some unburned powder in the bore more than likely), and Std Dev may go up substantially.

My preferred plinking load was 72gr of IMR3031 with a 405gr Remington for ~ 2230 fps out of a 22" barrel.

EDIT - oops checked out the load and corrected it, I shouldn't go from memory anymore.

AC

FWIW:

I recall (but I don't have the book with me) that the Speer manual lists some nice loads with the 350 grain bullet at 2300 FPS (which should be a low recoil 458 round).

Also, you can contact Hodgdon directly and speak to an engineer who can point you in the right direction.

I did and was pointed to H4895 which USUALLY can be loaded down to 60% of the Max load without problems.

SAFETY NOTE: The engineer can let you know for sure, don't trust me for that tidbit.

H4895 apparently burns very cleanly even when loaded lightly.

It is now the only powder I use for "disposing of bullets" for my 308s.

That is . . . . bullets you buy thinking that they will be great, but the aren't --won't shoot in the rifle, etc.-- and you now have 93 left over.

I load them over a light load of H4895 and use them as practive/plinking rounds.

BMT

BMT,



Have you actually tried that? I did in three rifles (two separate cartridges to boot), neither loaded down to 60%, and got nasty hangfires.

Let see 458 Win mag with a 60gr charge, about 74% case fill, would go click, you could then count 1, 2, 3, 4, BOOM! This was with Fed 210 and CCI 200 primers. Perhaps Mag primers would help. This occurred in two separate 458 Win mag rifles, one a Winchester Supergrade M70 and the other a Mauser M98 custom.

300 Win mag, charge was 65gr of 4895 with a 180 gr pill, case fill ~ 77% and again click, 1, 2, 3, BOOM! That time I was using Fed 215 primers. Rifle was a M70 Supergrade.

Perhaps it was just my rifles, but I really doubt it. However, if you have done it successfully maybe the rifles were screwed up.

Just thinking, but a max load in a 308 would be what ~ 44gr behind a 165 gr pill? So 60% of 44 is 26.4 gr, I might try that in my 308 and see what happens with both CCI 200 and CCI 250 primers.

AC

AC:

Yes, I have tried it in the 308 Win. But I had a target of 35 grains of powder so I could get an even 200 rounds out of a pound of powder. The max for H4895 over a 150 grainer is 45.5 grains (so 35 gr is a 76% load). It works sllick, with low recoil.

I have used that powder charge for bullets as light at 130 grains (about a 70% charge--IIRC) with no problems. Its a great way to practice.

BMT

Here are my loads including the lower velocity hand loads you requested.
AR 2207 is H 4198
AR 2206 is H 4895

.458 Winchester Magnum

Bullet Load Powder O. A. L. Velocity Energy Comments

300gn Remington 70gn Rel 7 2308 24 inch barrel Mark X Mauser
71gn Rel 7 2386
68gn IMR 4198 2491
69gn IMR 4198 2514 Compressed load

300gn Hornady 73gn AR 2207 2571 4372 22 inch Barrel Model 70 Super Grade
74gn AR 2207 2595 4487

300gn Barnes X 75gn AR 2207 2640 4644 Best all round loads for medium game

400gn Woodleigh 75gn Rel 7 2244 4475 1 hole accuracy Model 70 Super Grade
77gn Rel 7 2283 Very good load
74gn H 322 2336 4847 Mild good load
74gn AR 2207 2417
75gn AR 2207 2437

400gn Barnes X 74gn H 4198 2434 5263 Big Game Load
74gn H 322 2363 4961
76gn H 322 2380 5032

400gn Speer FP 58gn AR 2207 1857 .45/70 Marlin Duplication load
70gn AR 2206 2101 .45/70 Ruger Duplication load

405gn Remington 75gn Rel 12 2011 24 inch barrel Mark X Mauser
77gn Rel 12 2071
72gn Rel 7 2286
73gn Rel 7 2328
67gn IMR 4198 2233
68gn IMR 4198 2271

500gn Hornady RN 65gn IMR 4198 2065 22 inch Model 70 Super Grade
66gn IMR 4198 2078 Top load
73gn IMR 4064 1960 Compressed load
65gn Rel 7 2032
66gn Rel 7 2041
75gn Rel 12 1981
76gn Rel 12 2034
65gn AR 2207 2093
66gn AR 2207 2119 Top load
68gn AR 2206 2009
69gn AR 2206 2024

500gn Hornady Solid 72gn IMR 3031 1980 4354 22 inch Model 70 Super Grade
74gn IMR 3031 2065 4736
76gn AR 2206 2126 5019
77gn AR 2206 2154 5152
78gn AR 2206 2178 5268

Bullet Load Powder O. A. L. Velocity Energy Comments

510gn Winchester Factory 2010 4576 CZ 550 Test Rifle

550gn Woodleigh 65gn H 4198 1998 4847
65gn H 322 1918 4494
67gn H 322 1975 4765
68gn H322 1973 4753 Open sighted @ 50 yards
69gn H 322 2020 4984
70gn H322 2048 5124 Heavy Recoil
74gn AR 2206 2027 5019 Great Dangerous game load

600gn Barnes RN 72gn AR 2206 1978 5214 CZ 550 Test Rifle


AGW

thanks for the load data, AGW. I am going to give a few of those loads a try.

You might also want to try Accurate 5744. It is designed as a low density low energy powder to take up a lot of powder space in a large case for efficient reduced loads. I use it in my 416Rigby for low recoil practice loads.

AGW,
AR2206H is H4895. The USA doesn't get AR2206 and ADI is still making both despite their similiarity. Having said that, AR2206H is slower burning so should theoretically have no issues when loaded using AR2206 data ... but then again you just never know.
Cheers...
Con

Con,
This powder worries me more than most in this range, as I have personally experienced up to 6% lot to lot variation, albeit in non back to back batches.

The industry standard last I heard, was 4% variation and I have spoken to Hodgdon which has a standard of 2%, which is very tight.

It is my greatest hope that Mulwex is improving to the point of keeping the Hodgdon standard.

The other thing is that some powders are actually reworked to change their burning rate. ie When AR 2209 was introduced, it was slightly faster than IMR 4350. When this powder was offered to Hodgdon as a replacement for H 4350, it was transitioned slower until it became slightly slower than IMR 4350.

What this means, is if you tested a can or AR 2209 with the old green label from the 80's against a current batch or H 4350, you would find a huge variation because of that structured change in burning rate. Lot to lot variation can be irrelevant unless the batches are reasonably close I think.

Overall the Mulwex range has improved greatly and because of the volume sold here in the US, they are producing volumes far greater than the Aussie Market could ever consume.

We still only have 9 million adults in the whole of the country with an estimated 1-2 million shooters, so it is still a pidling market compared the the US.

Interestingly, Retumbo is AR 2225 and was released here in the US before it was released to the Aussies. I find that interesting and hope the market was created by the newer US magnum cartridges.

If so, that is a good thing for the Aussies as metric or not, the firearms market there is all USA when it comes to language and components.

If only you could buy X bullets for $30 a pack it would be hunting heaven.

AGW

AGW,
The US market has been relatively good for locals as its brought AR2206H and AR2219 to domestic shelves. BarnesX ??... who needs them when Woodleighs still sell relatively cheaply compared to the US price, as do Taipan and Bertram projectiles.
I take it your now based full time in the USA? Its a shame as we certainly need people prepared to actually test fire/develop loads and write about the bigger bores in Oz. Damn boring reading 223 test after 22/250 test... lots more interesting fish in the sea!
Cheers...
Con

I also wonder why such a light load is desired. If it's to tame recoil, then a better bet is obtaining a .35 caliber or similar. Trying to obtain a reduced round in something like the .458 can give you really unpleasant results and, in extremes, cause severe injury..

Personally I would not go below published minimums and even with those I would try to find a powder that still occupies a decent percentage of the case capacity.

I'd seat to about 3.00 COL and go with 25-30gr of Unique. Basically loading it as in a big pistol round. Load density over 60%, and good ignition characteristics.