Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Hodgdon CFE Powder - Popularity Proven

The CFE223 powder fouling is very black and thicker than the N530 or N133 that I was comparing it to. But it does clean up very easily with only a few patches. I have recently noticed that AA2520 also was very easy to clean with minimal patching whereas Reloder 10X is a bugger to clean out of a barrel...as tough as I have seen.

That's not untypical of powders with de-coppering agents. What you're seeing is probably the agent/copper amalgam, which is quite brittle and pushes out easily.

I've seen the same thing occasionally with Ramshot TAC, a clean-burning ball powder with a de-coppering against, but 3-4 patches gets rid of it. However, if you use such powders consistently in one barrel, the fouling typically decreases, because the copper decreases.

What is the price paid for the de-coppering?

I shoot some pretty smooth bores that don't copper foul.

The price? As much as $30/lb around here right now.

BarryC: The CFE is $22.25 per pound here. If that is what you are referring to?
If you are referring to the powder maybe having some detrimental effects on barrels or velocity then I am not up to speed on that.
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VarmintGuy

Venatic: Thank you for your observations.
I often take my 223's to Prairie Dog colonies and like to shoot to the point of having "fouled barrels" and this information intrigues me - I often clean my Rifles at lunch time out on the prairie and easy cleaning is important to me.
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VarmintGuy

Mule Deer: Thank you very much for your information and insights.
I am becoming more and more excited to use this powder.
Wind is blowing "like 60" here in SW Montana now.
Sheesh.
Thanks again.
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VarmintGuy

I've read some postings that seem to say cfe burns much cleaner w/ near Max loads rather than milder loadings......I guess I can buy into that idea but has anyone got some input here?

VarmintGuy,

You're welcome.

Aside from powders like TAC and CFE223, Dyna Bore Coat will permanently reduce copper fouling in any rifle barrel, and make cleaning easier--if you ever need it.

Personally, between improved powders and Dyna Bore Coat I haven't bothered to clean a varmint rifle in the field (or even at night during 2-3 day shoots) for a number of years. The rifles just keep shooting as well as they did with 10 rounds down the bore.

I've noticed my rifles with DBC show little or no copper fouling, even after a lot of rounds. I shoot my 6.5-284 all season without cleaning. Then I clean it whether it needs it or not. Just a habbit, I guess.

DF

$$ cost could be one thing. As they say there is no free lunch. Maybe it could be less energy per grain, or foul heavily, or have a high flame temp. I don't know. Just wondering if there's a trade off compared to powders that don't have the CFE chemicals.

BarryC: I think I see where you are headed now and I am as yet not able to answer that part of your inquiry.
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VarmintGuy

BarryC,

No, there's no downside to the more recent rifle powders with de-coppering agents.

Let me back up a little before going further. The technology isn't new. Artillery shells have been loaded with a de-coppering agent for a long time, usually a piece of lead foil or wire at the top of the propellant charge.

Some older rifle powders also contain de-coppering agents, but they're usually older ball powders which do tend to burn dirty. Aftr enough shots the powder fouling covers up the copper fouling, so the de-coppering agent doesn't work as well.

More recently, however, ball powders have been developed that burn a lot cleaner, including Ramshot TAC and CFE223. These do result in MUCH cleaner bores and far less need to clean them. One of my rifles is a .223 that will go at least 500 rounds between cleanings when fired with TAC, and will still be shooting the same excellent groups. When I do clean it (just to see how much powder fouling and copper are there), it takes 3-4 patches with a decent solvent to get down to bare metal.

So far my results with CFE223 indicate similar results, though I'm waiting for prairie dog season before shooting several hundred rounds without cleaning. So far the only significant difference between TAC and CFE223 I've found is CFE is slower burning. As a result it provides another choice in the same performance range.

Both provide some of the fastest velocities for appropriate cartridges of any powders. As noted above, CFE223 is the fastest powder listed for both 32 and 40-grain bullets in the .204 Ruger in the latest Nosler manual, and TAC is very fast in the .204 as well, especially 32's. I've also found both to be very fast in the .223, and TAC to be one of the very best powders in the .17 Fireball as well.

All ball powders are double-based, so do burn a little hotter, but I've been shooting TAC in that non-cleaning .223 for a dozen years and thousands of rounds now, and the rifle shoots very well. I did smooth the throat a little last year with some fire-lapping rounds, but it still puts 5 shots into under 1/2".

A gunsmith friend and I have been running other experiements to see how long bores can go between cleanings. He's built several benchrest rifles for friends who only compete with each other, using Lilja barrels that have been treated with Dyna Bore-Coat. At least a couple of the guys have shot their rifles 2000+ rounds now without cleaning, and the rifles are still grouping in the .1's and .2's.

I don't know how long your barrels go before needing to be cleaned. Some people think 75-100 rounds is a lot. With TAC and Dyna Bore-Coated factory (not custom hand-lapped) barrels I count on being able to shoot 250-300 rounds before even thinking of cleaning.

Mule Deer: Thank you again for sharing your additional thoughts and information on this type of powder.
Very informative.
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VarmintGuy

I am using CFE in my .22-250 with great results. No copper just black fouling that cleans easy. I have not run the loads thru the chrony yet but accuracy is great. I did not have any huge luck with it in my .223 yet though as far as getting an accurate load.

WSM_Shooter: Interesting results you got there.
I have a couple of friends shooting CFE in their 223's and they are/were happy with their results accuracy wise.
This brings to mind the old sayings:
"Every Rifle is an individual"!
And:
"Handloading causes questions"!
I brought online a Remington 700 SS Rifle in caliber 270 WSM I love the looks of this Rifle and the way it shoots but have not taken any Big Game with it as yet - its like a back up Rifle right now.
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VarmintGuy

VarmitGuy,
I love my .270WSM. It shoots awesome and I took 2 deer with it this past season. A doe at 300 yards and a 9 point at 200ish yards. I am shooting the Nosler 150 grain NBT over Retumbo powder. This was it's first season out and it made me happy.

WSM_Shooter: Good for you on the double Deer harvests with the 270 WSM.
I have two friends that use 270 WSM's - one shoots a 140 grain Nosler of some type and the other shoots the 150 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. They both Hunt Deer mostly but are in "Elk and Black Bear country" as they do so, and they wanted to step up a tad from their old reliable 270 Winchesters.
I hope to use mine for a harvest this spring (Black Bear) or this fall (Deer, Elk or a Bear).
Keep up the good work with the 270 WSM.
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VarmintGuy

VarmitGuy:
Thank you, I have loads worked up for 130, 140,and 150 grain BT's as well as 130 and 150 Partitions. My rifle likes 150 grain bullets best but will shoot 3 shots sub 1 inch with all mentioned loads.

Is CFE a double-based ball powder?

Or is it single-based Extreme powder?


If choosing only one to have on hand, would you guys go with TAC or CFE?