Home Forums Reloading Varmint Rifles Hodgdon CFE Powder - Popularity Proven

I have been reading a lot lately about the new CFE powder from the good folks at Hodgdon's.
Several of my Varminting buddies also give it high marks in the 223 so I was happy last Thursday when my local pawn/sport shop got in a LARGE shipment of all brands of powder that included some CFE.
It appeared that my friend the owner had ordered about 8 pounds of all kinds of powders including IMR 4350 and virtually all other popular types.
The CFE was the FIRST powder to sell out and did so early on Friday.
As of today (over a week later) finally one other type powder sold out in this "small market" and it was the IMR 4350.
Luckily I snagged a pound of CFE for myself and am intent on trying it in a new to me 223 Remington Varminter and one of my 204's.
Any recommendations for CFE in a 26" barreled 204 with 32 grain bullets would be appreciated.
Just a heads up in this wierd market place that we are in - if you see some CFE powder on a shelf don't put off buying it or you may regret it.
The selling price of this powder here was not bad at all, at S22.25 a pound (no sales tax).
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

What model rifle with 26'' barrel would you be shooting

VG: CFE 223/ 204 Ruger / 32 V Max

29 grs... 3826 fps... 45,400 psi
30.9 Max....4091 fps.....55,000 PSi

Coal: 2.250

Source: Hodgdon 2013 Annual Manual...

Doghunter12: I have 6 Varmint Rifles in caliber 204 Ruger with 26" barrels:
1&2) Ruger 77 V/T's (I have two of these)
3) Ruger #1-V
4) Remington 700 VLS
5&6) Remington XR-100 (I have two of these)
The Ruger #1-V by a very small margin is, as of now, the least accurate of my 204's - it is still rather accurate though shooting groups (5 shots at 100 yards) in the 4's, 5's and 6's consistently - never a flier - so I am going to try to perk this Rifle up a bit accuracy wise.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Seafire: Thank you very much - a printout has been made and testing to commence when the wind dies down.
I see that Hodgdon "Annual Manual" on my local pawn/sport shops shelf - but it is in a sealed clear plastic wrapper and I can not peruse it.
Do you recommend I spend the eight bucks to buy this magazine?
Thanks again
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG, you can actually more info here from Hodgdon's online ballistics and it's free.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

we tried it in 4 different rifles it didnt do anything rl10x or h335 wouldnt do.

hoytshooter,

Well, not unless you count the fact that CFE burns a hell of lot cleaner than H335 and gets rid of copper buildup in the bore as you shoot it. Oh, and the new Nosler manual lists CFE223 as the fastest powder with either 32 or 40-grain bullets in the .204. It only lists RL10x with 40's, and CFE223 is 270 fps faster.

MD,
Maybe you could find out from Hodgdon if they are using Tin Dioxide or Bismuth in CFE as the decoppering agent.
I remember reading a statement by Julian Hatcher that they had tried loading shredded tin foil on top of the powder in the old 30.06 at Aberdeen Proving Grounds for copper fouling problems.
After this test DuPont actually came up with a tin (Dioxide) additive to their powders(IMR to be exact) for this specific purpose.
Just wondering if they had a new formula for this or if they just decided to upgrade a 100 year old Idea for marketing purposes only.

well i got 16lbs of rl10x i use it exclusively in 39 gr. blitzkings.in 204.it groups perfect and the cfe 223 didnt goup as well out of my savage.but it did make my buddys ruger shoot better.i guess he is going to make the switch.if it was available and i didnt have 16lbs of powder and my 204 diidnt shoot awesome with rl10x then maybe jus maybe i might be tempted to switch but then theyll come up with another powder that everyone will be jumping all over too.

I don't know about the .223, but I got velocities I didn't think possible with 155's in my .308, with no obvious pressure signs and good accuracy. It seemed a little erratic though, I need to shoot some more of those and see.

I'm very happy with in my .223. 27.5 grs under a 50 grn ballistic tip. groups in the the 3 s out of a rem 700 sporter contour. looking forward to shooting it in my .308.

VG I have a few 204s also, although the only one with a 26" barrel is a XR100. It is the one that I am most interested in shooting at present.I would appreciate your sharing results with the cfe 223. Currently using 28gr. H335 32 gr. vmax chrono. @ 4015 -.5s @100 yds with some seating depth adj. Does a bit better with H335 and 39 gr.sierra. Am waiting for some cfe223 to show up. I really like this rifle and caliber for P. dogs - even in the wind.

Sending PM
Chuck

Doghunter12: Will do.
And when you say the H 335 "does a bit better" when using the 39 grain Sierra, do you mean accuracy wise over the 32 grain Sierra?
Yes the 204 Ruger is an amazing performer - even in the wind.
In all my 204's the 35 grain Bergers shot the best - but those bullets are pricey and hard to find here in SW Montana so I went with the second best performing bullet the 32 grain Sierra Blitz Kings. They are cheaper and more easily found hereabouts.
I do have about 200 Berger 35 grainers left over and may even test them with the CFE powder - just to be doing so.
I use H 4895 and Varget in my batch of 204's as of now.
Have not tried the H 335 in any of them.
Some of the 204 shooters I know argue with me about the 32 grain bullets and the 39/40 grain bullets shooting flatter than one another. They contend the 39/40 grainers shoot flatter.
My research shows the 32 grainers shooting flatter out to just at 500 yards than the 39 and 40 grainers.
At and after 500 yards "normal loadings" in the 204 has the 39/40 grainers assuming flatter shooting status over the 32 grain bullets.
I am fully convinced that the 204 Ruger is now THE BEST all around centerfire Varmint caliber on the market today.
Low recoil, low barrel heat, flat trajectory, flies straight in the wind, amazing accuracy, superb lethality and it is apparently easy on barrels - what else could a person ask for in an all around Varminting cartridge?
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
I do 99%+ of my Varminting at ranges under 500 yards so the 32 grainers work well for me.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

General Dynamics (manufacturer of CFE and every other spherical propellant Hodgdon sells) lists tin in their general MSDS. Nobody anywhere lists bismuth, even when they definitely use it. Perhaps bismuth doesn't require listing.

That might be the case, since bismuth is considered non-toxic.

I've been shooting some mil surplus Re15 that is supposed to have a decoppering agent in it. The fouling is very dark black which makes me think it must be bismuth. Is CFE fouling also extremely black?

I haven't seen much fouling of any kind in my shooting of CFE223 so far. Dark fouling is usually powder fouling.

De-coppering agents aren't a new deal, but they've become far more effective in recent years due to the powders themselves becoming cleaner burning.

Bismuth as in Pepto Bismol...?

The Bismuth in Pepto reacts with sulfur in salava and gastrointestinal secretions to form Bismuth Sulfide, which is black. Anyone using enough Pepto knows of what I speak...

With bleeding ulcers, stomach acid turns blood black, so Pepto use can sometime cause concern if one doesn't know about bismuth compounds.

It could be sulfur compounds in gunpowder reacting with Bismuth to produce black fouling.

DF

There isn't any significant sulfur content in smokeless powder.

De-coppering agents (whether lead or bismuth) work by forming a brittle combination with copper in the bore. This is blown out by successive shots--or at least that's the way it's supposed to work.

As I mentioned before, this isn't a new idea. In artillery shells, lead is often added by wire or foil in front of the powder charge. Lead works great as a de-coppering agent, but isn't considered environmentally ideal.

Also, much depends on how cleanly the powder itself burns. If the powder burns "dirty" (common with older ball powders), leaving a coating of abrasive additives, the de-coppering agent only blows out the copper on top of the powder fouling, creating alternate layers of powder and slighter amounts of copper.

I've cleaned the barrels of many used rifles that had these alternating "geologic" layers of powder and copper fouling. It's common when shooting traditional ball powders, such as those often used in factory ammo. They meter easily, thus working well when making thousands of rounds, but they don't prevent fouling, even when containing a de-coppering agent.