Home Forums Lever Action Central Cowboy Levers smokeless or BP

Hey all. New member. I have a Marlin model 1881 that was mfg. in 1893. It is a 38-55 cal. Gift from uncle(he has since passed away). I still want to use this but am unsure about what cartridge to use.
I did a little research and seems I COULD use either smokelss or Black Powder. I have idea or clue about either. What grain bullet or how hot a load etc. I don't reload (yet) so need to know what to use and preferably where to get it. As much info as possible here appreciated. I do know that black powder can be corrosive and that you can't really do a direct swap of black powder grains to smokeless. I bow to your expertise!

You are probably looking at a long tedious job in getting it to shoot well. My experience with old Marlins is that the bores tend to be oversize and worn to boot. I would slug the bore and measure it, then try to buy cast bullets sized to fit. Accurate 5744 powder is a good place to start as a smokless replacement in blackpowder cartridges. The bullets will be 255 grain flat nose anywhere from .375 to .381. Don't even consider going toward hot loads. Your objective is to find some combination that will stay on the paper, then decide which way you want to go from there.

I'll second Idorado with one exception. If the gun is in excellent condition or a rare configuration I would not slug it. There may be a new compromise for you. Goex which is one of the cleanest burning pseudo black powders is now loading cartridges. Cabelas is carrying them and that's where I would start with an old Marlin like yours. There are other on line sources for BP equivelant cartidges.

Unless something has changed, Goex is a blackpowder, not a substitue, like APP or Clearshot.

There are low power loads available in smokeless and BP for Cowboy Shooting. Even then, I would suggest that you use BP, the recoil is different. The kick is more of a push and less of a kick.. be kind to the ol' girl.

I expect you don't plan on turning it into a match accuracy gun.. just looking to breath a little life into an old gun.

Good shooting,

The goex web site says its a BP substitute. The bottles say replica black powder. In other places on their web site it says its BP. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Either way its commonly accepted as BP but is supposed to burn much cleaner.

www.goexpowder.com

You might also try theese places.

www.buffaloarms.com

www.ows-ammo.com

www.ten-x.com

Welcome to the fire, Dakotamarlin.

A .38-55 normally uses a 255 grain bullet, and is an excellent short-range deer rifle. I wouldn't try it on deer at ranges more than 100 yards, but it will put them right down at short range.

Your rifle was designed for black powder loads, and you should keep your loads to black powder pressures and velocity. The steel is also relatively soft, and jacketed bullets may not be a good idea.

Before you shoot this rifle, you might want to have a gunsmith look at it and get an opinion as to whether it is safe to shoot. It is over 100 years old, after all.

Low pressure .38-55 cartridges are readily available. In fact, so many .38-55s are older rifles like yours, that I doubt anyone manufactures a high pressure or high velocity round for it. I would try a factory smokeless "Cowboy" load, like Ten-X as suggested above, to see how that shoots.

I think Ten-X has a minimum order for direct sales, but you can buy one box from Cabela.com to try them.

The idea of slugging the barrel is to see what diameter bullet you need if you reload for it, which is what you will have to do to obtain any great accuracy if the bore is oversize. Factory ammo won't seal well if the rifle is overbore, and you will get lead fouling and poor accuracy. A .38-55 is supposedly a .375 caliber, but, as noted above, that can vary from rifle to rifle.

Beartooth Bullets make bullets in several calibers. I suggest you look on www.beartooth.com for information on slugging bores and loading cartridges. Also, Hornady sells a book on loading cast bullet cartridges, that is supposed to be pretty good.

I really wouldn't try to load for a rifle without reading a book first. It's not rocket science, but it is dangerous if you don't know what you're doing.

I enjoy the heck out of my antiques, and I'll bet you will too, with yours. Good shooting!

Gentlemen it's one thing to beat a lead slug down the bore of a new Marlin thats not valuable. Its really another whole ball of wax to start pounding lead down the bore of an antique unless the gun is an absolute beater. If it is in better than average condition and you must know the diameter for competition shooting find someone with brass air gauges that can do the job properly. This is putting the horse way in front of the cart before you even try it to see how it shoots. The top link I posted above sells BP 38-55 cartridges. Remington still loads this round and very hot 38-55's are available from Buffalo Bore Ammunition but certainly should not be fired in an antique.

Hey all thanks for the info. I did some additional checking.
I did run about a half a box of rounds through it. Uncle said at that time they were what he used. They were smokeless. I would probably lean toward BP since that is what it was designed for. I know my cleaning will have to be meticulous as this stuff is corrosive. a guy filled me in on what hard Cast bullets were. Said I should lean toward 20-1, 30-1 hardness.
He also said slugging the bore would give an accurate reading. Machining back then wasn't as precise as today so it would wise.
Everyone I contacted said don't shoot it as it is worth too much. So, at this point I'm leaning toward wall-hanger status.
I attached a photo of the girl. I have more "high quality photos if anyone is interested. This site only allows VERY small photos with not much def. ... Thanks again for all the input!

I'm pretty sure the rifle in the picture is a model 93, not a 1881.

I agree. Seems to me the 1881 was a top eject rifle like a Winchester. Wasn't the 1889 the first "Marlin Safety" rifle?

Now I've done none of this, so I have lots of questions. First, I've always been told to use soap and water to clean black powder. How do you clean a lever gun without taking off the barrel or submerging the gun? I have an 1892 Winchester that I've considered using black powder in, but I'm lost on this point. A gunsmith friend of mine told me that it was built to handle the 38-40 smokeless loads of today so thats what I've been using. How DO you clean a lever after using black powder?
Thanks. Brad

No idea but that looks like a mighy fine shooting iron. I'll tell you why I'm leery of just saying slug the bore without seeing the gun. Earlier this year a guy showed up with a Winchester 92 that had been in the attick for a hundred years or so. He described and it seemed a little rough. When he put up the photos the gun was a flippin gem. So now I'm more cautious about suggesting you slug a bore on an antique. Its not hard or expensive to have the bore air gauged if you can find a barrel maker or gunsmith near you and there is no chance of damaging the gun. If you have more photos I would like to see them and I bet the others would as well! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

In general, it's a messy disagreeable chore, and a big reason why smokless powder replaced black.

I shoot (and therefore, have to clean) blackpowder lever and pump shotguns. I begin by squirting Windex from a spray bottle into the chamber while holding the barrel tilted down so it drains out the muzzle. I use a strong nylon fishing line about 3' long with a loop on one end and a bullet shaped sinker on the other. Drop the sinker into the chamber and let it fall through the muzzle to the ground and put your foot on it. Hitch a bore brush into the loop and pull it through by pulling the gun off the string while being held under your foot. Repeat this several times. Pull patches through the same way. I use two regular sized paper towels for a patch. When the patches come clean, pull an oiled patch through. You'll have to scale back the size of the equipment and patches for a rifle. I'm sure your great gandpappy did it something like this too. It's a mess, and I bet he thanked heaven for his first box of smokless cartridges.

Thanks. That would seem to work fine. What about the residue that builds in the action area. Do you have to disassemble and clean every once in a while? I have a reproduction 1860 Colt Army, and I know that fouling goes everywhere, not just down the bore. Granted, this is alot easier to take apart to clean.
Gobbler

Most of the crap that gets all over a black powder revolver comes out the gap between the cylinder and barrel or back out the nipples. Shooting black powder cartridges in a rifle isn't nearly as messy on the actions. But it needs cleaning if it needs cleaning.

I agree on every point on the revolver Sir. Am I correct in assuming that the case does a good job of sealing the breach? Having never shot a black powder cartrige, I guess the whole thing can be answered with this. Is there much or any black powder residue on the sides of a spent black powder cartrige?
Thanks. This is realy fascinating. Gobbler

The cases are clean on the outside when they are ejected. Most everyone who shoots black powder cartridges loaded them themselves and intend to do it again. So as soon as a fired case is in hand, it gets dropped into a jug of soapy water because the cases have to be washed anyway before reloading. Brass cartridges were a giant leap forward from muzzle loaders.

I believe you are correct on that 1893 model.
Here are some additional photos for ya'll

oops let's try this again.

photo #2