Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters DOGZAPPER? 6mm-250

I'm getting ready to rebarrel a 22-250 and had been considering the 6 br. I saw that you mentioned a 6mm-250 and it has intrigued me. I've pretty much decided against the 6br in favor of a 250 based 6mm, but I can't make up my mind between a 6-250 and a 6-250 AI. What are your thoughts on any benefits of one over the other.

My thinking is that a 70 BT out of one at about 3500 would be an awesome long range chuck shooter.

David Tubbs has been the cutting edge on that size round. Last I heard the latest version was called the XC. Suggest that you contact them for what to do and the twist. He uses a very fast twist for VLD target bullets and your talking a different application.

I heard that they have modified a 243 reamer with a sharper shoulder and run it in only far enough to headspace a 250 case. This would need to be confirmed. I would follow Tubbs as there was talk that Lapua was making or going to make brass.

For the lighter bullets that smaller case should be excellent. I like a 1-10 twist for 243 vaminters. From what I read below on the 6mm XC it's standard reamer may throat for a very long bullet. Also that if the velocity is as high as a 243 then the pressure has to be higher. For just shooting 70 bullets at varmints a 243 Win or 6mm Rem is good.

XC

Hi Bluedot,

I've used the 6-250 quite a bit and have always found it to be a wonderful, accurate cartridge. The 6-250, in various forms, has been around forever. Folks, for some reason, keep reinventing it.

The version I used, it seems to me, makes the most sense. It will take a bit of explaining, so please read carefully.
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Most folks believe that the .22-250 is simply a necked-down .250 Savage. This is not true. The .250's shoulder angle is 26 degrees, 30 minutes and the .22-250 has a shoulder angle of 28 degrees. Also, most sources agree that the dimension between the case head and the shoulder is roughly .003" more forward on the .22-250 (a result of the sharper shoulder, no doubt).

In building my rifle, I wanted to use the best brass, so it just made sense to base my 6-250 case on the .22-250 necked-up to .243", rather than the .250 Savage case necked down. The popularity of the .250 Savage has been dwindling for years and basically the quality of available brass sucks. (With sincere apologies to .250 savage fans, the brass is horrible). The situation is dramatically different with the .22-250 brass; the cartridge is very, very popular and the brass is excellent.

As an aside: My wife, Karen kills big furry critters with a .250 Ackley. After my last supply of decent Winchester .250 Savage cases died, its replacements were totally unacceptable. For the last several years, I've been forced to totally rely on necked up and fireformed .22-250 brass to keep Karen's .250 Ackley shooting. It is an easy process and the quality of cases is superb.

OK, so my 6-250 is actually a 6X22-250. And, in reading the above, you now know why.

By the way, Redding calls it 6X22-250 and, yes, Redding makes dies.

The finest load in my barrel produces slightly over 3,400 fps with the Nosler Ballistic Tip.

Frankly, I did not Improve the cartridge because I'd be simply duplicating the .243 Winchester, which is itself a "semi-Improved" round.

When I built the 6-250, what I wanted was a throttled-down round that gave 6BR performance (plus a bit) and that would function through a magazine (which the 6BR will not). Coyotes always hunt in pairs and I cannot tell you how many times I've killed one....been patient....and killed the mate.

I used a 6BR for coyotes, but eventually found that the single-shot is a poor predator concept. Better to nail the first dog, cycle the bolt and be ready for the second dog.

When I wrote my article for VH on the 6-250, it was amazing how few readers understood my reasoning. I wanted a modest cartridge, not one that goes balls-to-the-wall. It was either my poor communication with words, or the reader's total obsession with GO FAST, that prevented the concept from being clear to the average reader. A few caught it, and those who did were excited about the 6-250.

Frankly, if you want 3,500 fps out of the 70-grain bullets, I'd fully recommend going to the standard .243 Winchester. The cases are generally excellent, there is lots of load data and the dies would be both less expensive and more numerous. The .243 Winchester is your best choice.

Hope this helps,

Steve

Dogzapper, thanks for the reply. I think the 6-22-250 is the way I'll go, 100 fps between what I thought it would do and what it will do is no cause for concern . I have a 243 for my daughters but I was looking for a chuck gun that would have a trajectory comparable to the 22-250 while being a little easier on barrels than the 243.

From what I can find the 6br has a case capacity of 39-40 gr water, the 6-22-250 41-42 gr, the 6-22-250 AI 50 gr and the 243 has 52gr. So i would have to agree going to the AI version would just be a 243 by another name.

Bluedot,

Another reason I went for the unaltered form is because the tapered case feeds like quicksilver. This cartridge is all about function and is wonderfully practical.

As much as I love Improved cartrides and all of those built on the .308 case, the minimal case body taper does not help feeding.

As I said in my original answer, I wasn't after power, but simply adequate ballistics, minimal recoil and perfect feeding from the magazine. I typically call call coyotes very close and my goal was somewhere in the 3200 fps range.

In range testing, I found that the cartridge exceeded my predictions by about 200 fps; still at low recoil. And the accuracy was uniformly superb.

Actually, the 6.250 is a great round. It spits in the face of the Ultra crowd, but that's fine with me.

Steve

DZ,

The foremost question in my mind is what is the difference between the [color:"red"]6x.22-250 [/color] and the [color:"red"]6mm International [/color] ? Seems to me it's about same/same.

Sometimes you learn something whether you want to or not. I learned something on this thread. Kind of makes me regret that I didn't buy a 6x250 when I had a chance... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Grasshopper

Friend Grasshopper,

I'm sitting here with the flu, or whatever the heck Karen and I have.....let's call it the CRUD.

Anyway, I've never directly compared the 6 International and the 6-250 side-by-side. In looking at photos of the .250 Savage and the 6 International in the huge volume "Wildcat Cartridges," it appears that the International has a shoulder that is less sharp than the .250. It also looks like the neck is slightly longer. The reprint is horrible, but the case body/shoulder junction is definitely lower on the International. On the strength of this, I'd guess that it is a slightly smaller case. Yeah, as you said, same/same, except very skightly different format....and other than the necking, there is no case forming involved with the 6-250 (or, mre properly, my 6/.22-250)

By the wayI still have the 6-250 barrel that fits your .260 Ackley and I have the full set of Redding dies. The die set includes:

1) Redding .22-250 sizing die that Pat bored oversize in the neck so that the .224-to-.243 gradually-tapered expander plug (included) will work.

2) Redding Type-S neck-sizing die with TiN .264 bushing. The expander rod has been fitted with Redding's cool tungsten-carbide floating expander balls.

3) Redding seating die in "6mm/.22-250

4) Bullet seating gauge made by inserting the original chamber reamer into a stub of the host barrel.

All you need is an action wrench, my friend.

By the way, we made GM richer a couple of weeks ago. Bought a 2006+ 2500HD 4WD Duramax (LBZ)/Allison (the new six-speed with manual over-ride). Crew Cab/Short Bed, LT-3, Loaded. Graystone Metallic with Dark Charcoal leather. Lovin' it totally; thanks for making Karen and me a great new truck. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Your buddy Steve

I have shot the 6mm Remington International since 1961 in competition. My rifle is a 40 X with a 1-10 twist. The case uses the 250 Sav. case with the shoulder pushed back quite a bit. I have two form dies and also the usual RCBS set.

The case holds about 35 grs of powder and it's enough for 300 meter competition which is what it was designed for. Today I would select the 6mm Br for the same purpose if single loaded as I use the round and the 6mm Tubbs XC if I shot the course he does.

There was no 6mm PPC, 6mm Br or 6mm-250 as far as I know when I started with it. There was the 6mm Cobra however which is the Swift necked up. Thats a good round by the way.

My first match cartridge for position competition was the 243 Win with a reduced load. Thats what I use for varmints today. The 243 is kind of rough on barrels as it holds more powder than necesssary to make a hole in a piece of paper.

Reload Bench comments

Friend DZ,

Sorry to hear you have the Krud. That's no fun, for sure! Drink lots of fluids, and get plenty of rest. Take a couple of days off from work. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />



I have an action wrench.... And a barrel vise... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Darn! you got me thinking again..... Expect a call in the next few days... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Glad you like your new truck... They just keep getting better and better all the time. I still have my ol' Z-71. With no plans on getting rid of it. Next time, I expect, I'll buy a Yukon.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for your contribution to my retirement. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Grasshopper

Friend Edward Grasshopper,

No problem. We are home almost every night, except Saturday evening (Mass) and Tuesday (class). And most days I'm just bumping around the house.

We are showing signs that we might live through the KRUD. Karen is coughing her lungs out still, but we are feeling generally getter. Given a few more days, we might actually be back to normal (whatever normal is <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

If you decide on the barrel and dies, you will find the 6-250 to be the nicest cartridge to shoot and splendidly accurate. Also, from a ballistics standpoint, running 70-grainers at a gentle 3300 fps or 95s at 3,046 fps is very impressive.

It is such a natural situation; the action has a pinned-lug and is made for switch-barrel. And THIS is the switch-barrel. Even better, it has an article, writ by himself <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

I'll even throw in a personally autographed copy of the article. Now there is a deal-maker. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

It is my total pleasure to add greatly to your retirement by our purchase of the Duramax. We've named our new rig I. C., which stands for Idle Chatter. Not being a total fanatic(???), I dislike the diesel noise that most oil-burners make but, for some reason I really like the muted rattle of the Duramax. And the Allison six-speed transmission...WOW.

Edward, as you know, Karen drives a 2004 Tahoe (all same Yukon, except for shiney washers and badging). She is just delighted with it and I must say it has been a totally flawless rig. I can only believe that the future incarnations of it will be flawless++++. We saw the new 2007 Yukon/Tahoe at the Portland Auto Show and they are NICE.

Remember the afternoon we spent together; you, your brother, Karen and me? Just eating that fabulous pizza (no pork <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />) and blabbing away about hunting, shooting and other fun stuff. The perfect weather on the patio and the wonderful total friendship. I revisit that afternoon often.

Talk to you soon,

Your friend Steve